Levy / ENIC

[John Thomas]

The highest bid for Alderweireld was £20m, would you want us to accept that and then not be able to replace him?

Firstly, we don't know that.Thats you taking heresay as fact.

Secondly, it's more a case of expecting unrealistic transfer fees for the players we're trying to offload cos they're not good enough or on a downward spiral.
Players like Nkoudu, Llorente, Dembele, Sissoko,etc...
I'm sure these were the kind of players Tomo was referring to in the post I quoted.

 

[Johnboy40]

Yes they have a high level of care but l see it as any other investment for them, nothing different than anything else they own . That's why the infrastructure been completely upgraded but little spent net wise on the team.
There success has been built on improving hard headed business revenue and any romantic/risk notions are avoided.

any romance in football was pretty much killed

1)when the leading clubs managed to intrepret (and Im paraphrasing) that it's better for the sport to have one governing body instead of two (the FA and the FL) as "lets form our own league and keep as much of the money as we can,. fuck the lower leagues"

2) Our estimeed former chairman (cunt for short) phoned the TV station to for whom he manufactured equipment and told them what they would need to bid

3)The FA allowed franchising in English football

obviously there are other things..The premier league putting what they thought was icelandic biscuit bilioinaires in front of the integrity of the sport over the Tevez affair (i mean, its fairly simple, the way to punish clubs for fielding an illegible player: you lose any points gained if said player was in the matchday squad.) to name one

 

[ArcspacE]

All this investment in the squad stuff and signings etc etc etc

Its an odd one because from where Im sitting, swapping Eriksen for Hazard is the sort of thing that would genuinely improve us, or signing Kante etc...

But people are talking about Ndombele (is he ripping the shit out Ligue 1 because Ive still never heard of him), and Grealish, and Martial and Barkley (LOL) etc etc

If you want next level, you need to sign next level players.

Luke Shaw for Davies is not that. People are complaining about lack of signings and stagnation, but most are demanding sideways step additions.
You all claim to want to "aim high", but all you really want is the club to spend huge amounts on benchwarmers. People are talking about Mitrovich and Maddsison in the January Transfer thread.


If you were demanding Mane and Aguero and Fernandinho Id understand.
Not De Ligt though, and not Zaha.

 

[Team Tanguy]

You make a lot of strong points so here's a question for you ....

How much would we have had to spend on transfers last summer to have had a realistic chance of winning the EPL? or how much to win a Cup?

By my calculations about £83,963,416.52p. Seriously I dont know. However much it takes within reason to improve the squad. And it's not impossible to do that. It doesn't take world record fees to buy every player and we are not being targeted in a global conspiracy where other clubs have decided to negoitate unfairly with us and us alone.
If you want names I say that's what the scouts and recruitment are for.

Improve the squad and we improve the probabilities of winning something.
How much does it take to improve the squad, and how much improvement is needed you ask?

We look at our performances/results and look for where we can improve.
Some things are down to coaching and tactics etc but many are down to individial quality.
Now, we analyse with observation and stats combined where the individual quality can be improved by making use of the market.

Instead we spend time making excuses for why ___ is unattainable.

How much to match City? they've spent 500 million more than us over the last five years
How much to match the Dippers? they've spent 350 million more than us over the last five years
How much to match Utd? they've spent 320 million more than us over the last five years
How much to match Chelsea? they've spent 430 million more than us over the last five years

With Poch much less than you think and much less than those clubs needed to spend.
It's important to try, we won't be walking into battle with sticks. We're at a disadvantage but there's enough of a chance.
I don't get what you're implying though.
Do we not try at all? Should we not invest in players at all then?

Is there a point to this questioning?
I can do it too.
How many clubs have never made a signing in the summer prem window despite finishing in the top 3 and qualifying for the CL 3 seasons in a row whilst making their chairman the highest paid in the league, planning the most expensive tickets and generally spending way less than even the smallest clubs?

So just to catch up would have required well over 300 million ... where in your view is that money coming from?

If we are really doing the most we can whilst continually being the lowest spenders then we should just pack it up because professional football is not for us.
No one is holding a gun to Daniel's slaphead.
What is your ultimate point with this?
That we are currently investing all we can and anything more would be unreasonable because it would be out of the owners pockets or unsustainable as we would not be able to afford it each year right?
How about we take some from Levy and the rest from what Unc Joe owes in taxes.

Or they fuck off and let someone who wants to invest do the job.

This _better the cunt you know_ idea doesn't run with anymore. Football is capitalism and we won't escape that. He's not some eccentric foreign, club crest changing obnoxious sugar daddy owner but he's holding us back in a few days currently (and simultaneously propelling us forward in others admittedly).

Might you consider a ten year plan to increase our income from 120m to over 300m a good idea? or perhaps to invest 750m in a 60,000 stadium? or do you have a better 'quick fix' suggestion?

It's a good idea for sure. But I believe there is a danger in not looking after the present as well as the future.

All it takes is a few transfer exits or a bad season and we could drop out of the CL which would affect everything.

And I don't think we are so far away that we need to be thinking...

"Right we have world cup winner captain Lloris, world-class CBs Alderweireld and Vertonghen, Eriksen one of the best playmakers in Europe, Alli one of the hottest young attackers period, Kane the best CF in Europe. However think of the long term plan, we ain't winning anything yet with these lot fuck them"

What should a guy like Kane be happy with?

Knocking ENIC and DL is very easy, sure we haven't won any trophies, but coming up with a realistic plan of what you would have done differently? the way you'd have turned mid-table into top four? have taken us from 1950's 35,000 to 21st Century 62,000? have raised our Club's profile massively on the world stage? .... how would you have successfully done that any differently?

I'm not knocking all of that. Praising what ENIC have achieved is not mutually exclusive with criticising what they have done wrong.

I'm not an ENIC basher based on trophies either.

I would have done most things the same!

It's like we are a student low on money. We work hard, clear the kitchen cupboards and find some food. We hone our cooking skills and make exquisite meals with simple cheap ingredients.
We enter local food contests and place well.
We have an opportunity to reach the next level of cuisine and we've the funds to buy those exotic ingredients and the most advanced cooking equipment.
We gamble on some ramen noodle, assuming our skill can lead us glory. Doesn't quite work out but we still finish near the winner. That's us basically.

The thing is I expect us to get out of this bad spell. I think Poch is good enough to get us top 4 again. He shouldn't have ever had to have done that though and this is another year of our lives that could have been a real exciting challenge.

What is football to you?
Why do you watch it?

The best reason I can actually think of in favour of not spending is that I would hate it if we ever missed out on a Kane because we bought an Aguero.But this is football /Poch

 

[Team Tanguy]

All this investment in the squad stuff and signings etc etc etc

Its an odd one because from where Im sitting, swapping Eriksen for Hazard is the sort of thing that would genuinely improve us, or signing Kante etc...

But people are talking about Ndombele (is he ripping the shit out Ligue 1 because Ive still never heard of him), and Grealish, and Martial and Barkley (LOL) etc etc

If you want next level, you need to sign next level players.

Luke Shaw for Davies is not that. People are complaining about lack of signings and stagnation, but most are demanding sideways step additions.
You all claim to want to "aim high", but all you really want is the club to spend huge amounts on benchwarmers. People are talking about Mitrovich and Maddsison in the January Transfer thread.


If you were demanding Mane and Aguero and Fernandinho Id understand.
Not De Ligt though, and not Zaha.

I want to reply to this because some lines are relevant to me but as usual you lump about 30 different opinions together and attack it as one.

Yay Hazard and Kante
Nay at replacing Eriksen. Just an example but our team with Hazard in place of Eriksen is not as good as it would be with Hazard alongside Eriksen. Plenty of lesser players to shunt out but being the defender of shite squad players I don't expect anything less.

Ndombele raped City a few days ago. Same City that dominated the league last year.

Shaw is pathetic and fat I agree.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

Team Tanguy - I think you make some very reasonable points, but it’s hard to ignore the cost of the stadium. I know it doesn’t explain away some of the penny pinching in ENIC’s earlier years, but how much is the stadium costing? £500m? That’s the equivalent of £50m a year for the last ten years. Woolwich struggled to spend big after building the Death Star, and that was with regular CL money rolling in.

I think ENIC have done things in reverse (to an extent) and been frugal in the seasons building up to the stadium. Everything they’ve done with the stadium has been geared towards generating as much cash as possible, including the NFL deal, but I doubt we’ll see the benefits of that cash just yet. Maybe to a degree with the change in our wage structure (at least with Kane).

The stadium is a reasonable excuse for ENIC’s general lack of spending over the last years, but it would be a stretch for them to use that same excuse for another decade. They saved for the stadium, they’ve built the stadium, and soon we will be within our rights to expect the club to spend more meaningfully.

 

[ArcspacE]

I want to reply to this because some lines are relevant to me but as usual you lump about 30 different opinions together and attack it as one.

Yay Hazard and Kante
Nay at replacing Eriksen. Just an example but our team with Hazard in place of Eriksen is not as good as it would be with Hazard alongside Eriksen. Plenty of lesser players to shunt out but being the defender of shite squad players I don't expect anything less.

Ndombele raped City a few days ago. Same City that dominated the league last year.

Shaw is pathetic and fat I agree.

That moron spent the whole summer insulting posters for wanting to improve the team and kept saying we should just promote some random youth and make Sissoko our main CM

He's now saying we shouldn't waste our time with up-and coming potential players and just buy ready-made superstars like Hazard and Aguero for 150m. Wonder is he knew Hazard and Aguero also once came from 'lowly leagues' that he doesn't watch in his basement or that we can never afford to pay such figures

 

[Team Tanguy]

Team Tanguy - I think you make some very reasonable points, but it’s hard to ignore the cost of the stadium. I know it doesn’t explain away some of the penny pinching in ENIC’s earlier years, but how much is the stadium costing? £500m? That’s the equivalent of £50m a year for the last ten years. Woolwich struggled to spend big after building the Death Star, and that was with regular CL money rolling in.

I think ENIC have done things in reverse (to an extent) and been frugal in the seasons building up to the stadium. Everything they’ve done with the stadium has been geared towards generating as much cash as possible, including the NFL deal, but I doubt we’ll see the benefits of that cash just yet. Maybe to a degree with the change in our wage structure (at least with Kane).

The stadium is a reasonable excuse for ENIC’s general lack of spending over the last years, but it would be a stretch for them to use that same excuse for another decade. They saved for the stadium, they’ve built the stadium, and soon we will be within our rights to expect the club to spend more meaningfully.

I get what you're saying bro.
Weather the storm and bide our time, and then eventually unleash.

I just don't think that's likely to happen.
If we had that kind of will to succeed on the pitch then I think logically it's fair to say that we would have at least made more of an effort in contemporary windows.

But if we splash mad cash in Jan and/or next summer and the year after then cool that's great, whilst I think it won't happen, the possibility of it happening is why I haven't stopped watching football at least as a fan of a club.

I expect new excuses to be made. Brexit fucking things up probably. I'm sure there will be some reason why our situation is so unique because of the unpredictable financial and political circumstances. Plenty of excuses to last seasons. Does this seem farfetched?

When will you personally lose hope in our desire to invest in the playing squad? A season, two seasons? When one of our lovelies leave?

 

[GGK]

Do our recent league finishes and infrastructure investments not buy some time in that regard?

My hope / faith in the ENIC regime is as a result of those and that Levy does appeared to have learnt on the job over the last decade or so. There are so many positives that it does paper over the net spend / ticket price cracks, no ?

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

I get what you're saying bro.
Weather the storm and bide our time, and then eventually unleash.

I just don't think that's likely to happen.
If we had that kind of will to succeed on the pitch then I think logically it's fair to say that we would have at least made more of an effort in contemporary windows.

But if we splash mad cash in Jan and/or next summer and the year after then cool that's great, whilst I think it won't happen, the possibility of it happening is why I haven't stopped watching football at least as a fan of a club.

I expect new excuses to be made. Brexit fucking things up probably. I'm sure there will be some reason why our situation is so unique because of the unpredictable financial and political circumstances. Plenty of excuses to last seasons. Does this seem farfetched?

When will you personally lose hope in our desire to invest in the playing squad? A season, two seasons? When one of our lovelies leave?

I think we’ve invested relatively well over the last few years. Obviously we’ve kept a very low net spend, but we’ve picked up the likes of Trippier, Alderweireld, Son, Wanyama, Dele, Dier, Sanchez and Lucas Moura since Pochettino took over, as well as finally paying Kane a more competitive wage.

On that last point, that’s possibly where we’ll see the first real signs of the new stadium allowing greater investment. As for when I’d lose hope, it depends on a lot of factors. A couple of seasons out of the CL, no signs of trying to obtain first team players to improve us, and two or three of our big names (and possibly Pochettino) leaving would suggest a need for serious changes.

 

[mouse]

FA have backed plans for the sale of Wembley.

Wembley Stadium sale to Shahid Khan backed by FA board

Could really fuck up Levys NFL plans this. Khan would probably be in pole position for a London based NFL franchise.

What to do with those massive changing rooms and load of astroturf as underlay now?

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

FA have backed plans for the sale of Wembley.

Wembley Stadium sale to Shahid Khan backed by FA board

Could really fuck up Levys NFL plans this. Khan would probably be in pole position for a London based NFL franchise.

What to do with those massive changing rooms and load of astroturf as underlay now?

I disagree with this, all be it from a position of total ignorance in all matter NFL.

My understanding is that if you are going to set up a business somewhere you don't do this in complete isolation on your own, despite having a competitor it's far more advantageous to work with your competitor than against it. e.g. Those of you that have been to a trade fair will notice that the exhibitors are group together by industry. High-end shops are found on the same street. Hatton Garden for Jewellery, City of London for Finance and Insurance, Meat Markets, Flower Markets, Fish markets all in direct competition but all benefiting in creating the market. Having more than one NFL presence in the UK is healthy for NFL, twice the amount of talk, twice the amount of publicity, twice the amount of hype.

In addition, I think it would also be logistically easier to have two teams based in UK/Europe as a) Easier to schedule games between themselves, also when another team travels over to UK they can also extend a stay and play both teams. Another team coming over means more coverage, more hype etc......Maybe think along the Lions tour to Southern Hemisphere, this was once a friendly piss-up, which is now recognised as perhaps the biggest tour in the World of Rugby???

Then there are other things to consider
1. We have a 10yr contract with NFL
2. Khan and his Jaguars don't
3. New White Hart Lane is built for NFL
4. Wembley isn't
5. Khan has explicitly stated that he is not going to relocate his Jaguars NFL team to Wembley
6. Khan is in the process of obtaining public money to update his stadium in US ($2.1b I think).

 

[Team Tanguy]

I think we’ve invested relatively well over the last few years. Obviously we’ve kept a very low net spend, but we’ve picked up the likes of Trippier, Alderweireld, Son, Wanyama, Dele, Dier, Sanchez and Lucas Moura since Pochettino took over, as well as finally paying Kane a more competitive wage.

On that last point, that’s possibly where we’ll see the first real signs of the new stadium allowing greater investment. As for when I’d lose hope, it depends on a lot of factors. A couple of seasons out of the CL, no signs of trying to obtain first team players to improve us, and two or three of our big names (and possibly Pochettino) leaving would suggest a need for serious changes.

For me personally the thought of Levy doing the bare minimum to not produce a fan revolt is a nightmare.

I want a title challenge or a relegation scrap not a bland purgatory of spinning wheels whilst the teams below and above us switch places cyclically (I'm not saying that's where we are but it could be where we end up).
I've often enjoyed our transitional seasons but enough is enough of this stingy slaphead sponsored ground hog day now.
The next summer(s) could completely change everything but we can't build a defence of Levy based on "what if in future he does ___". That level of accountability is a dictators wet dream.

A couple of seasons out of the CL, no signs of trying to obtain first team players to improve us, and two or three of our big names (and possibly Pochettino) leaving would suggest a need for serious changes.

That worries me tbh. With this mindset we can easily find ourselves in perpetual transition. 3rd/4th place finishes, maybe lose Moose in the summer, Toby the next one perhaps. Add a promising young replacement who will need several seasons to get anywhere near that level then rinse and repeat.

It's hard what we are trying to do. Atletico, Monaco, Dortmund etc are all good examples of clubs beating those with more resources by showing more ambition in recruitment even if they're not competing for the top already established stars.

I think we're right at the edge. It's not pitch fork time ASAP but we should at least sharpen them.

 

[Mensa]

I've often enjoyed our transitional seasons but enough is enough of this stingy slaphead sponsored ground hog day now.

Mate don’t go full gooner, never go full gooner

Right now if Levy said “Poch I’ll break bank give you 300mil if it gets us title, would it?”
Poch would say no as rightly it wouldn’t

We just have to bide our time as even with crazy spending beyond means we can finish exactly same place, get stadium up and start increasing spend when we can

We’ll get top 4 and next summer a big one

 

[Team Tanguy]

Mate don’t go full gooner, never go full gooner

Right now if Levy said “Poch I’ll break bank give you 300mil if it gets us title, would it?”
Poch would say no as rightly it wouldn’t

We just have to bide our time as even with crazy spending beyond means we can finish exactly same place, get stadium up and start increasing spend when we can

We’ll get top 4 and next summer a big one

Please be right bro

 

[ShutUpPatrik]

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

 

[Doom Funk]

The Club should have originally said two years at Wembley , let us Moan then accept and get on with it

Instead what has played out has been rather farcical
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if there are headlines in a few months claiming spurs are running out of time to have stadium ready for start of next season

 

[Juicy Sushi]

It’s a lot of debt, but £163m is a fucking hell of a lot of cash before EBITDA as well.

The only thing to really measure it against is Woolwich’s mess, and even with Brexit doubling the costs on us, it will be viable. Just.

It’ll be easy to hate on ENIC for all of this, but unless you have a sugar daddy, this is how things work in the real world.

 

[Super Jan Fan]

Even with all the increased costs of the stadium I don't think the debt will be a problem.

It looks very likely that the Nike extended deal is also for stadium rights, but ignore that for a minute and assume it is just shirts. 15 years of shirts at the previous rate of £30M (if I recall correctly) is £450M. It may be more than that given Woolwich just got £60M a year for their Adidas deal. Add stadium sponsorship on top whatever that might be, and the increased revenue from the stadium and wider project...It's a huge amount of money. We won't get it all at once, but there will be some front loading and guaranteed income on the rest of the deal period allows us to borrow the money and know we can afford to pay it off over time.