LB Situation

[Hegarz]

1. striker - i agree we need one, but thinking about Ade and Defoe compared to last season there is definitely something missing. That something is a creative midfielder who can get them into better chances, we haven't replaced Modric or VdV.

We have creative players in midfield, that isn't the problem. Bale has created 85 chances with only 12 assists. We need proper consistent quality up front. We have done for a long time. A new midfielder isn't going to fix this problem, it's like putting sellotape over a hole in the wall..

2. a proper winger - I don't understand this at all. AVB wants to move to a 4-3-3. Dembele + Sandro + one more midfielder (hopefully being brought in). Then the front line will be ST + Bale + Winger. I don't see a need for another. We have Siggy, Dempsey, Townsend, Lennon, and a handful of youngsters. A winger is unnecessary, yet we could improve. I'd probably swap winger to number 5 and push everything up one on your list.

Not really surprised to be honest, but I'm not sure have you noticed this but currently we only have 2 actual wingers at the club. Now I don't know about you, but I would not consider that strength in depth. Especially if you want to be playing in the champions league, make shift wingers like Holtby and Sig aren't going to cut it, and with a bit of luck Dempsey won't be here next year.

4. Cover for Sandro, then Parker can go - I don't agree here. Let's say we have Sandro healthy and we do sign a creative CAM. Our midfield would consist of Dembele + Sandro + CAM. On our bench we would have Holtby, Siggy, Dempsey, Hudd, Livermore, Parker. I don't think Livermore will cut it so i don't see a point in him being on this. Parker is 32 and turning 33 in October, we wouldn't get much money and wouldn't clear a significant portion of wages. Parker could be a very, very good 3rd or 4th choice CDM.

Why did you include him then? But regardless, he mentions cover for Sandro and you reference Holtby, Sig and Dempsey. None of which are defensive midfielders. Great argument.

5. LB - BAE should be gone. We're left with Rose, Fryers, and Vertonghen. Unless we're going to get Baines on the cheap there is no point in buying him. Shaw, I'm very, very excited about, yet i'd rather buy a CAM and ST rather than getting Shaw. If we're buying a left back, I want Shaw or Baines on the cheap.

Why am I not surprised at all. Of course you want Baines. Why wouldn't you? He's knocking on 29 and is going to be well overpriced based on the fact he is English and playing in the Prem. Exactly the kind of player we want to go for right? Defiantly worth shifting out the LB we came fourth, twice with for.

6. RB - I see no need in a right back. Next season Adam Smith will be back and be the backup for Walker. Walker needs rest, considering he's played almost every single match.

I agree we need not sign another right back, but is Naughton not Walkers cover? Rather than a player who has never played at the highest level..

 

[Sanchez18]

We have creative players in midfield, that isn't the problem. Bale has created 85 chances with only 12 assists. We need proper consistent quality up front. We have done for a long time. A new midfielder isn't going to fix this problem, it's like putting sellotape over a hole in the wall..

Fair point, but I think we are still in need of a creative midfielder. Let's look at the Wigan game. They have 11 behind the ball, and are making Bale very closely. We couldn't get much. I think we're missing a Modric like player, a player that can be a deep lying play maker. Hudd has provided a spark over the past few games, but i don't think he is the answer. If Holtby can do this, i do not know, but i hope.

\ Not really surprised to be honest, but I'm not sure have you noticed this but currently we only have 2 actual wingers at the club. Now I don't know about you, but I would not consider that strength in depth. Especially if you want to be playing in the champions league, make shift wingers like Holtby and Sig aren't going to cut it, and with a bit of luck Dempsey won't be here next year.

AVB's preferred formation is 4-3-3, correct? The Midfield would look something like Sandro + Dembele + Holtby. The front line would look something like Bale + ST + Lennon. I was born in America so I can only hope to understand what you can, but I don't see a natural winger playing is this formation. Townsend/Dempsey/Siggy can both easily play in the front line. Livermore/Parker/Holtby/Hudd/Carroll/Siggy can easily play in the midfield.

Why did you include him then? But regardless, he mentions cover for Sandro and you reference Holtby, Sig and Dempsey. None of which are defensive midfielders. Great argument.

Okay, fair point, i shouldn't have included 2 attacking midfielders in Siggy and Dempsey. I have heard from several people on this forum about Holtby playing deeper in Germany. You also fail to mention Hudd/Carroll/parker/Livermore which i included who can play. So thank you for the complement on the arguement.

Why am I not surprised at all. Of course you want Baines. Why wouldn't you? He's knocking on 29 and is going to be well overpriced based on the fact he is English and playing in the Prem. Exactly the kind of player we want to go for right? Defiantly worth shifting out the LB we came fourth, twice with for.

I have said this before and I will repeat it. I would love to have Baines on this team. You nor I can doubt his ability. I have said he is not worth paying the amount of money Everton would want. As you ignore some of what I said, "Baines on the cheap." Last lines of my post. If we could get Baines for under 10m I will take a 29 year old world class LB. I hate that last sentence. That means absolutely nothing. After our strikers, our Lb has been the worst performing position throughout the entire season.

I agree we need not sign another right back, but is Naughton not Walkers cover? Rather than a player who has never played at the highest level..

Naughton slipped my mind. Doesn't change the matter. We do not need a RB, Smith and Naughton are perfect. Arguably, this could go back to the LB debate. Naughton playing LB means more playing time for Walker, in turn less time to rest. Less rest and playing virtually every game takes a hit on fitness and form.

 

[Hegarz]

Fair point, but I think we are still in need of a creative midfielder. Let's look at the Wigan game. They have 11 behind the ball, and are making Bale very closely. We couldn't get much. I think we're missing a Modric like player, a player that can be a deep lying play maker. Hudd has provided a spark over the past few games, but i don't think he is the answer. If Holtby can do this, i do not know, but i hope.

You're completely right, when we had Modric we never got unstuck by teams that sat back deep. Don't recall that being a reoccurring problem what so ever.

AVB's preferred formation is 4-3-3, correct? The Midfield would look something like Sandro + Dembele + Holtby. The front line would look something like Bale + ST + Lennon. I was born in America so I can only hope to understand what you can, but I don't see a natural winger playing is this formation. Townsend/Dempsey/Siggy can both easily play in the front line. Livermore/Parker/Holtby/Hudd/Carroll/Siggy can easily play in the midfield.

Yeah I can tell you don't really understand, considering you label a formation that uses two wingers and then state you can't see a winger playing in it? Fuck me. Also do you not value width or something? We don't get width from either Dempsey or Sig they just tend to drift inside.

Okay, fair point, i shouldn't have included 2 attacking midfielders in Siggy and Dempsey. I have heard from several people on this forum about Holtby playing deeper in Germany. You also fail to mention Hudd/Carroll/parker/Livermore which i included who can play. So thank you for the complement on the arguement.

Okay, well Livermore firstly you said won't be here next year so "he doesn't count", and Carroll is by no means a defensive midfielders either. So congratulations you managed to name 1 alternative to replace Parker and that was Huddlestone, and even at that they are completely different players. My god you do manage to live up to the stereotype.

I have said this before and I will repeat it. I would love to have Baines on this team. You nor I can doubt his ability. I have said he is not worth paying the amount of money Everton would want. As you ignore some of what I said, "Baines on the cheap." Last lines of my post. If we could get Baines for under 10m I will take a 29 year old world class LB. I hate that last sentence. That means absolutely nothing. After our strikers, our Lb has been the worst performing position throughout the entire season.

Baines on the cheap? Yeah good point we should also sign fucking Lewandowski on the cheap while we're at it. You must send me a sample of what ever shit you're smoking, it must be strong. Also world class? He's having a good season but calling him world class is a bit of a fucking exaggeration, what has he done to deserve that title? 15 caps for England?

Naughton slipped my mind. Doesn't change the matter. We do not need a RB, Smith and Naughton are perfect. Arguably, this could go back to the LB debate. Naughton playing LB means more playing time for Walker, in turn less time to rest. Less rest and playing virtually every game takes a hit on fitness and form.

What a surprise you forgot our only other right back. Tell me again how passionate you are? Besides we're talking about next season. With Rose back do you really think Naughton is going to be our LB..

 

[CrestOfAWave]

Smith is currently better than Naughton, Carroll should definitely play more next season and I also consider Baines world-class.

 

[SanDiegoYiddo]

I can tell you don't really understand, considering you label a formation that uses two wingers and then state you can't see a winger playing in it? Fuck me. Also do you not value width or something? We don't get width from either Dempsey or Sig they just tend to drift inside.

Wingers r dying m8

 

[Thelonious]

he's not British mate

 

[SanDiegoYiddo]

you label a formation that uses two wingers and then state you can't see a winger playing in it? Fuck me.

"And then he said a 4-3-3 uses 2 wingers"

 

[SanDiegoYiddo]

he's not British mate

Cheeky kunt

 

[Hegarz]

"And then he said a 4-3-3 uses 2 wingers"

I'm not sure are you joking or what, but a quick google search should educate you to the fact a 4-3-3 does infact use two wingers.

 

[LarrikanPeachy]

Probably mentioned in the match thread which I haven't bothered to trawl through yet, but I don't understand the constant sub of Naughton off, BAE on. I know we don't have many options on the bench attacking wise with a couple of injuries but is this really necessary?

AVB played Naughton to counter McManaman coming inside I think. This obviously failed as he scored. But as soon as Mcmanaman was subbed off, so was Naughton.

BAE hasn't been as good as he was last season, or the season before that. But in those two seasons, he was playing week-in, week-out and had the confidence of the manager. He still done some pretty stupid things, like he has done this season, but he was still generally a consistent performer. I think he's had his time and we need to improve, but it isn't the first priority. If we signed 5/6 new players for our first XI then it could be another slow start and it could cost us again next season.

BAE is an attacking substitution. Bringing him on means the team can push further up the pitch and allow the midfield to stagger with three pushing forward. Don't think of it as a like-for-like change.

 

[LarrikanPeachy]

wouldn't this be linked to Bale moving inside and having no designated left-sided player though?

surprised to see such little attacking threat on the left but bodes well for Lennon's impact from the right.

 

[Kalyl]

I'm not sure are you joking or what, but a quick google search should educate you to the fact a 4-3-3 does infact use two wingers.

The 4-3-3 AVB wants to play has two players starting in the wingers position, but he wants a left footer on the right, and a right footer on the left. so no, not really wingers. The wingers in this formation is first and foremost the wing backs pushing up really high

 

[Hegarz]

The 4-3-3 AVB wants to play has two players starting in the wingers position, but he wants a left footer on the right, and a right footer on the left. so no, not really wingers. The wingers in this formation is first and foremost the wing backs pushing up really high

This is drifting off topic, we can debate formations all day because they are open to interpretation. But just because you want the wingers cutting in doesn't mean a CAM can do the job the same way.

 

[Adam Clark]

It is fair to say that Benny has been distinctly average, as has Walker, and Naughton and also Vertonghen when he has played as LB, but am I the only one that thinks this is purely because we have lacked width for the majority of the season. With Bale spending most of the season tucking inside whoever is at LB has had to run the whole left flank themselves which to me is the root cause of these problems.

The same goes for Walker on the right. when Lennon is playing, Walker looks a lot more confident and plays to a much higher level as he has adequate support in front of him. When Dempsey or Siggy are played on the right, their natural tendency to drift to the centre also means Walker is running the right hand side by himself meaning he cannot get forward as much as receives little help when defending.

Bale is a bit of a conundrum if you ask me. Obviously he has been fantastic this season and playing in the middle has allowed him to win games for us. At the same time though, when he does play in the middle the team becomes completely unbalanced and this makes the team as a whole plays worse and forces us to rely on him in my opinion. I still think our best team involves Bale and Lennon out wide as this would help tighten us up at the back as well as give us more attacking options. Bale showed that he can still be a threat cutting in from the the flanks with the last 20 minutes of the City game.

On an off topic note, I think we should give Carroll a few more games based on his albeit brief appearances this season!

 

[Hegarz]

It is fair to say that Benny has been distinctly average, as has Walker, and Naughton and also Vertonghen when he has played as LB, but am I the only one that thinks this is purely because we have lacked width for the majority of the season. With Bale spending most of the season tucking inside whoever is at LB has had to run the whole left flank themselves which to me is the root cause of these problems.

The same goes for Walker on the right. when Lennon is playing, Walker looks a lot more confident and plays to a much higher level as he has adequate support in front of him. When Dempsey or Siggy are played on the right, their natural tendency to drift to the centre also means Walker is running the right hand side by himself meaning he cannot get forward as much as receives little help when defending.

I think that's a very valid point. For a full back, the quality of the winger in front of you plays a big part in your game, and like you said the fact they don't receive that same defensive cover when Sig or Dempsey plays defiantly leaves them exposed and vulnerable to criticisms.

Also I agree about Tom, would like to see him getting more first team experience.

 

[Andy Boas]

I think Rose should be given the chance next season. I've been impressed with him at Sunderland.

 

[penpen]

Yeah all this talk about buying a new LB... we have a young star LB on loan at Sunderland, they are ranting and raving about how much they love the guy, why would we sell him and BAE just to waste that money on an older replacement?

 

[Audere]

Baines would be an upgrade on Rose. No one can argue that.

 

[Lister]

Never been impressed with Rose.

Impressing in Sunderland is a bit like calling a fat ugly bird fit because she is sat next to Sarah Jessica Parker.

Far from convinced about him.

That said if he has developed (massively) and is worthy of the hype then it seems only sensible to get him back and give him a run, and I certainly hope he proves a sensation.

 

[Andy Boas]

Never been impressed with Rose.

Impressing in Sunderland is a bit like calling a fat ugly bird fit because she is sat next to Sarah Jessica Parker

It's not really though, is it?

Impressing in Sunderland, a team that, it's fair to say, have to defend more than us over 90 minutes is encouraging.

He's been given the continued participation that he didn't get at Spurs previously and he's really run with it.

I'd give him the starting job next season. We have other areas we need to invest in that are far more pressing than left back, at least in my opinion. Rose has done enough for me this season to push BAE and Naughton out and make the left back position his own