it may be easier just to give poch the flick..
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it may be easier just to give poch the flick..
Last nights starting line up.
Typical starting line up Southampton under Pochettino
In possession
What I notice about the attacking system.
It doesn't look the same as Southampton under Pochettino
Typical starting line up Southampton under Pochettino
In possession
What I notice about the attacking system.
It doesn't look the same as Southampton under Pochettino
- Our forward line looks Isolated, especially the centre forward. As in the screenshot above there is a gaping distance between the front 4 and the more defensive minded players. (OK i picked the worst time to take this because Paulinho had deployed is camouflage)/
- At Southampton they frequently used 3x central mids with the addition of overlapping full backs helped plug the gap to the front line. In defence two of these central mids would furiously press the opponent, something I never see us do.
- The tempo is slow, tries frequently to pass through the middle and almost always forced wide to full backs and then ends up passing backwards/sideways. (Again, the screen shot above, such a slow tempo has allowed every man and his dog to get between us and our forwards).
- The only time we seem to make inroads is through big mistakes or when the centre backs dangerously join the attack!
- Full backs seem reluctant to make runs higher up the pitch (maybe with the exception of rose) whether it's by instruction or through fear of exposing the back line if possession is turned over I don't know. Davies especially looks very indecisive going forward, there's no assertiveness to his runs.
- We don't have a capable half-back style midfielder like Schneiderlin, we have Capoo or Stramboulli, I actually think Stramboulli might the be better of the two in that role after last night.
- Our wide play is hopeless, lacking in pace and directness. Often ends in Lamela running cross field or loosing possession. We seem to have no get out of jail card like we used to with our wide play (from in form Bale and Lennon speed merchants).
- In fact we seem to lose possession a great deal everywhere, maybe through frustration of lack of opportunities they players are trying to dribble their way though the midfield when sadly they are not technically able.
its all 4-4-2 in disguise.
Round pegs for square holes .I think Poch has plans but he does not have the correct type of players.
It's like trying to make a cake but all you have in the cupboard is Spam, Cabbage & Lemsip
It's like trying to make a cake but all you have in the cupboard is Spam, Cabbage & Lemsip
of course there's a system and a philosophy but it takes time especially with sum of the big time charlies he's dealing with here
the southampton players said it took 6 months for them to really understand what he wanted and they were willing to learn and open to his guidance
we've got sum sour cunts on big wages that need shifting as there's a clear divide among the players that he's currently having to deal with
right now it's all about weeding out the bad apples and fucking them off in january so everyone is on the same page pulling in the same direction and we can get that togetherness and team spirit back that you need to be successful on the pitch.
the southampton players said it took 6 months for them to really understand what he wanted and they were willing to learn and open to his guidance
we've got sum sour cunts on big wages that need shifting as there's a clear divide among the players that he's currently having to deal with
right now it's all about weeding out the bad apples and fucking them off in january so everyone is on the same page pulling in the same direction and we can get that togetherness and team spirit back that you need to be successful on the pitch.
We don't have a decent right back, and our CM options don't entirely work at both breaking up play and getting the ball forward quickly.
Both aspects matter for the way Pochettino likes to play. We also have too many players who prefer to keep possession through a sideways pass rather than a riskier forward pass during transition phases, which was also key to Poche's system at Soton.
The younger players seem to be getting things a lot quicker, and also seem more willing to do the work the system requires, so we'll start seeing more of Winks, Ball and Ceballos following in Mason and Bentaleb's footsteps as the season goes on, I think.
But parts of the system are there, and getting better. As more pieces of the puzzle come together things are going to start looking a lot better.
Both aspects matter for the way Pochettino likes to play. We also have too many players who prefer to keep possession through a sideways pass rather than a riskier forward pass during transition phases, which was also key to Poche's system at Soton.
The younger players seem to be getting things a lot quicker, and also seem more willing to do the work the system requires, so we'll start seeing more of Winks, Ball and Ceballos following in Mason and Bentaleb's footsteps as the season goes on, I think.
But parts of the system are there, and getting better. As more pieces of the puzzle come together things are going to start looking a lot better.
I wasn't taking it as a joke. The youth team seems to very much have the chops, and they're also willing to listen, without the agendas and egos the first team has. Those are the ingredients Poche worked with at Soton, so we shouldn't be surprised to see that being very much part of his agenda.Yes we have the players
in the youth teams. Partly serious btw.
I think you sum it up perfectly here.
I think we need to get to the windows with Levy sanctioning what Poch wants.
For whatever reasons, this largely talented squad of individuals just will not gel.
I told ya!
It was definitely a more flat 4 in midfield than we were use to seeing but Kane was all over the place front to back, side to side. I've developed a deep love for that young man. Legend in the making.
It feels like Poch gave-in a little to the players & players responded by play more of his pressing style.
Poch prefers a 4-2-3-1, but his team sets up better with Kane & Soldado up front. The players pressed on the ball and turnovers setup the scores. They also passed quickly. It should not be a surprise that they played their best game without guys who over-dribble or make poor long passes.
So yes, there is a system, but it is not where we started the season. It's a compromise that both the manager and the players can agree to - and go forward.
I admire your optimism but I can't see any evidence of that happening at the moment. Some weak opposition and 10 men have produced our wins lately, even then I wouldn't say those victories were convincing or even attractive. I'm hoping for something at the weekend.
That's clear, though you would expect (and as you see with many a good manager switching clubs) some of those philosophies to be transferred and some to be adapted or even enhanced.
Normally when a manager moves 'up the pecking order' clubs wise he can expect to find more talent, more skill, more intelligence in the player. With our squad it's like he's taken over a foreign mid-table team with some decent youth players. Even when Guardiola went from Baca to Bayern (could argue a slight step down in terms of profile) he still had a mass of talent to work with.
What are you supposed to do with 12 attacking mid fielders and a bedlam defence?
Yes we have the players
in the youth teams . Partly serious btw.
. Partly serious btw.
Well, I can't control what you're looking at, but if you can't see it, then you're not looking in the right places. The issue is that we cannot see a finished product until all the players are on the same page, and executing their roles properly. That hasn't happened yet, and likely won't until at least the new year.
Some people are doing things correctly though, and if you look the number of them who are is increasing. Right now the biggest issues are mental. Some players are very easy to knock off their game plan, or simply can't follow the plan correctly. The majority of them are in the back four and central midfield, which means we're playing without a proper base. When we have a proper right back, and two centrebacks who can communicate and focus like we need them to, and a central midfield which transitions as quickly as needed (Dembele, Paulinho and Capoue all struggle with the transition aspect especially), then the whole thing will click into place. Until that happens though, you need to look at each game as a work in progress, and look at what each player is doing, and isn't doing. Every time we see a single player getting better at following the system we get one step closer. This is a slow process, but necessary.
"Is there a system? Does it work? Do we have the players for it?"
Doesn't seem to be a system. But I question Pochettino's team selections. While he's ben manager, has he actually started the same 11 players more than once? After 20+ games it's obvious that Capoue and Paulinho are not performing. The same can be said of Soldado - three pathetic efforts against Partizan Belgrade. All of a sudden we don't have any wingers or anyone capable of getting to the byline and crossing the ball. And the midfield don't seem able to spread the ball. But spread the ball to who? The left and right right and centre backs seem never to be in a receptive situation. So we kick the ball sideways and backwards, No way to score goals. And without scoring goals we won't achieve better than mid.table in the PL and will have difficulty going much further in the EUROPA league.
Doesn't seem to be a system. But I question Pochettino's team selections. While he's ben manager, has he actually started the same 11 players more than once? After 20+ games it's obvious that Capoue and Paulinho are not performing. The same can be said of Soldado - three pathetic efforts against Partizan Belgrade. All of a sudden we don't have any wingers or anyone capable of getting to the byline and crossing the ball. And the midfield don't seem able to spread the ball. But spread the ball to who? The left and right right and centre backs seem never to be in a receptive situation. So we kick the ball sideways and backwards, No way to score goals. And without scoring goals we won't achieve better than mid.table in the PL and will have difficulty going much further in the EUROPA league.
Agree that the full backs are a big big problem. The role played by full backs in pochettino at Southampton was much higher up the field, much more attacking. We sometimes have Naughton and Davies pushing high up but without any real assertiveness, but more of a half assed attempt. Rose is better here, when he attacks he actually means to do so.
Thought soldado showed some glimpses of intelligent play against partisan, he missed his chances, only just but I thought it was a better showing. His movement was much better and he looked like he was on to score. However we are talking about a third tier team who probably wouldn't be in the PL and you just know that our strikers of old (berbatov, keane, Defoe) would have put those away.
