Have the Manager & Squad over or under performed this season?

[Smogz]

Wasn't the start of the season the best start for Spurs ever? So I guess it started pretty well. But for me the points were good, the performances was ok. After that it has been pretty much downhill. We are still in a pretty good position points wise but the performances lately has been shit.

I must say that I'm not looking forward to watch us play anymore, I'm dreading it. So based on that, the fact that we have invested pretty good since Conte arrived (what Spurs coach has been more backed in two windows?), I must say the players has under performed. And based on his reputation, Conte has under performed like hell.

 

[Darnswim]

Kane, Deki, Bentancur: Overperformed.

Conte, Perisic, Lenglet, Romero, Davies, Gil, Doc at a stretch: where you'd expect them to be, so neither underperforming or overperforming.

The others: Underperformed, with Son, Lloris, Dier and Sessegnon being the worst.

 

[spursmalc]

. I was at a black tie event with my Mrs a few weeks back. This guy who was apparently a former NFL coach ( a good one apparently) big bloke grey hair looked like a central casting American senator was there. So we start talking and I ask him if he has seen my "Soccer teams " ground as it was NFL ready. He says "You a Tottenham fan huh" I was both pleased at our brand cut through and dismayed at the level of pity in his eyes.

So we had a long and pretty in depth conversation, he was actually less interested in the NFL stuff ( on that he said he was pretty impressed though heard the playing surface was an issue) But he was fascinated on our continuing inability to win under an array of coaches and systems. He acknowledged we were at a financial disadvantage but was ADAMANT this was not the primary issue. He said 5/6 biggest budget was enough to win with.

So to try and keep it short He asked when the last player who had won a trophy at Spurs departed (I sort of blanked said King) 2012. So he said a decade huh makes sense. He basically said we had baked in failure in the leadership group. He meant Kane Dier Loris Davis.

He said keep only the best of them and ruthlessly dump the rest or keep on failing. He said even the best of them was not untouchable, that if you keep the same voices talking loudly and accumulating failure in a room you are denying success the space to enter this room. He said he was shocked that a succession of coaches had not addressed the simple psychology one trophy in a decade and clinging to a culture that produced it.

Got to tell you lads I was ready to put him in charge by the end. Had drunk a bit though.

We have winners such as Romero & Lloris winning W/C's & others in other leagues. It is our mentality with the domestic Cups that is the problem. Kane has not got many F A Cup goals because he gets rested so often. Yet he has stated loud & Clear that he wants to win a trophy. Look at the match thread for Saturday and many posters leaving Kane out of the side. It is the message that leaving Kane out gives that is the problem. It either means the match is not that important or we are so good we do not need him to win. Either way is wrong. It gives hope to the opposition. Send a message Saturday we intend winning the F A Cup this year by starting Kane.
Look at the League cup which looks like being disputed by Newcastle who have not won a trophy for even longer than us and MU who are despite the recent resurgence well below their recent past glory. If Newcastle win it, they will have the confidence to go on and win more as MC & Chelsea have done in the past.

 

[BernardMatthews]

We have winners such as Romero & Lloris winning W/C's & others in other leagues. It is our mentality with the domestic Cups that is the problem. Kane has not got many F A Cup goals because he gets rested so often. Yet he has stated loud & Clear that he wants to win a trophy. Look at the match thread for Saturday and many posters leaving Kane out of the side. It is the message that leaving Kane out gives that is the problem. It either means the match is not that important or we are so good we do not need him to win. Either way is wrong. It gives hope to the opposition. Send a message Saturday we intend winning the F A Cup this year by starting Kane.
Look at the League cup which looks like being disputed by Newcastle who have not won a trophy for even longer than us and MU who are despite the recent resurgence well below their recent past glory. If Newcastle win it, they will have the confidence to go on and win more as MC & Chelsea have done in the past.

We started doing the same with the European competitions too. Top 4 is the everything for the club.

We are not aiming for the league or the cups at the start of the season - there is no expectation on the manager to win trophies. Just the money and prestige that comes with the CL.
Poch and the success we came close to was more of an anomaly rather than an aim.

Sad but true.

 

[spursmalc]

We started doing the same with the European competitions too. Top 4 is the everything for the club.

We are not aiming for the league or the cups at the start of the season - there is no expectation on the manager to win trophies. Just the money and prestige that comes with the CL.
Poch and the success we came close to was more of an anomaly rather than an aim.

Sad but true.

I think it was Mourinho that said there was no bonus in his contract to win a cup. Yes the club gets more money from top 4 but the pressure to get rid of ENIC is a lot to do with failure to win a trophy. It could be their downfall and the sooner they realise it the better.

 

[Matt1882]

Wasn't the start of the season the best start for Spurs ever? So I guess I it started pretty well. But for me the points were good, the performances was ok. After that it has been pretty much downhill. We are still in a pretty good position points wise but the performances lately has been shit.

I must say that I'm not looking forward to watch us play anymore, I'm dreading it. So based on that, the fact that we have invested pretty good since Conte arrived (what Spurs coach has been more backed in two windows?), I must say the players has under performed. And based on his reputation, Conte has under performed like hell.

23 points from 10 games IIRC
13 from the next 11
2.3 ppg vs 1.18 ppg

One wins titles. One goes down.

 

[arngspurs]

Under. We need new centre backs but there’s no way we should have gone 10 (I think) consecutive games going behind, a lot of them by 2 goals too.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

We have winners such as Romero & Lloris winning W/C's & others in other leagues. It is our mentality with the domestic Cups that is the problem. Kane has not got many F A Cup goals because he gets rested so often. Yet he has stated loud & Clear that he wants to win a trophy. Look at the match thread for Saturday and many posters leaving Kane out of the side. It is the message that leaving Kane out gives that is the problem. It either means the match is not that important or we are so good we do not need him to win. Either way is wrong. It gives hope to the opposition. Send a message Saturday we intend winning the F A Cup this year by starting Kane.
Look at the League cup which looks like being disputed by Newcastle who have not won a trophy for even longer than us and MU who are despite the recent resurgence well below their recent past glory. If Newcastle win it, they will have the confidence to go on and win more as MC & Chelsea have done in the past.

I kind of limply waved the but but but Loris WC. He kissed his teeth an said that don't count for Jack. In fact he said it highlights the issue. He said the dressing rooms they are winning in are not the Spurs dressing room and he'd bet( dollars to donuts might need MemphisWill or AlabamaSpur to translate this) that they were not the dominant voice in those rooms.

He said its Spurs leadership group that needs breaking up because and I quote its got a " toxic losers mentality".

 

[Boltonspur]

I think the number 1 reason why it feels like we're underperforming is that once again, we had a chance at greatness and cocked it up.

The expectations were huge - Elite manager, additions of Kulu, Bentancur, Richarlison, Bissouma, Spence all for a full season. Coupled that with a motivated Kane, Top Scorer Son and Romero..... We had every right to have great expectations.

We got into champions league at the expense of them down the road.

We should have been on a high and carried that momentum through to this season.

Instead, we've been subjected to some of the worst football since the 90s, have failed at every real test of anyone in and around the top 4/5, and inexplicably, our 'elite manager' puts a downer on everything associated with the club every time he opens his gob. He gives the impression that he'd rather be anywhere else than Spurs and that it's almost beneath him. He needs to shut up with the negativity now and get his head down and start talking up the team.

His inflexibility with team selections and formations have also felt like we're just treading water rather than taking a step forward.

So yeah, so far they've underperformed....... But that's not to say they can't turn it round for the last 17 games of the season.

Positives-

We're still in Champion's League, FA Cup and a shout for top 4.

COYS

^^^^
100%

 

[MemphisWill]

If Newcastle win it, they will have the confidence to go on and win more as MC & Chelsea have done in the past.

I think spending multiple billions of pounds on transfers was the real catalyst to Chelsea and City's respective trophy count...not the FA Cup. Just saying.

 

[Kosher Kid]

Son couldn't fuck a whore with her nickers down

Absolute quality comment.

Made my day.

 

[AberdeenYid]

Football has been terrible. Results have been close to what was expected.

 

[Deleted member 15314]

Yes to both.

Son, Dier and Lloris being the biggest drop offs.

Conte has been an utter cunt as well. He is obsessed with making Son a playmaker and it's a big part of what has destroyed our season.

 

[Spursidol]

Pretty obviously we have had a lot of injuries to some key players - Kulusevski, Son, Richarlison, Bentancur, Bissouma - and no team other than ManCity will have adequate replacements for key men. And our position made worse by the number of forwards injured at the same time.

Loss of form of Son and Lloris

Nothing the rest of the squad can do to overcome these issues - and the others by and large have not dramatically exceeded expectation, so its mainly been negative..

So yes, the squad as a whole has underperformed. Nobody's real fault - although FIFA's corruption in choosing Qatar as a mid season world cup really screwed us.


Conte is inflexible as a coach and does not change teams tactics much - so opponents can more easily plan to frustrate us, doesn't use subs enough to change a team or trust youngsters to help out the squad. All of which might have helped a little, but its squad issues in the main part I suspect

 

[mummy]

Oh god no please not another poll

Some polls are great.

Of course we've underperformed.

 

[Micky Bubbles]

It's hard to think of a player who has consistently played well this season - Kane obviously consistently scoring goals but game by game for 90 minutes he has been out of sorts. Maybe Bentancur? So the players as a group defo underperforming, which probably means the manager has been too as it's his job to get the team functioning and playing to the best of their abilities

 

[GGTH]

Son and Lloris fell off a cliff, and Dier‘s form really went to shit since the call up, and honestly that’s enough for the entire team to underperform, top level teams simply can’t afford to carry 2-3 underperformers in their lineups. Outside of that, there’s been the very weird pattern we’ve gotten into, where the entire team underperforms in the first half and tries to make up for it in the second half, I don’t know if it’s a matter of fitness or what, but the fact that Conte hasn’t addressed that is 100% a failing on his part.
Conte also bottled making the difficult decision of benching Son, at times benching Kulu (!!!) so Son and Richarlison could both play, on top of failing to play both Son and Kane to their strengths. He’s definitely underperforming currently, purely due to his stubbornnes.

 

[Zest]

Started way above mean, Ventrone is the biggest factor IMO.

The slide may have started before his death, but he was surely poorly in the weeks before.

The team has looked so lacking in Zest, it has started that inner urge I get to rant about lacking conditioning/recovery/nutrition, or, over intensity in training.

Last season it was clear Conte and team arrived and got them in top shape, this season it’s been overwound and the players suffer inevitable brain fog moments and are failing to overrun teams in latter stages of games (or when we do we lack the poise to execute).

Getting a world class recovery and conditioning expert is the biggest signing Conte/Levy could make to redress this.

Sadly once a slide happens, like under Poch from Burnley away, Feb 2019 (when we had a two week break before and I hoped dearly he’d Dubai - sun, rest and team bond them), it’s virtually impossible to pull it around unless radical new thinking assuages a Manager to change.

 

[Rocket]

I kind of limply waved the but but but Loris WC. He kissed his teeth an said that don't count for Jack. In fact he said it highlights the issue. He said the dressing rooms they are winning in are not the Spurs dressing room and he'd bet( dollars to donuts might need MemphisWill or AlabamaSpur to translate this) that they were not the dominant voice in those rooms.

He said its Spurs leadership group that needs breaking up because and I quote its got a " toxic losers mentality".

You would have to imagine that Lloris is definitely a voice to be reckoned with within the French dressing room? Captain and one of the most experienced members of the squad. I'd be amazed if he weren't in the leadership group if there is such a thing.

 

[poch's coat]

Bang on target imo. 4th l