Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur - Sunday 10th March

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dudu said:
It's easy to romanticise about the past. I remember that Palace game well. We weren't swashbuckling at all. It was an arduous game that we won through persistence.

The last 25 mins of last weeks game vs Palace was more entertaining than that entire game in April 2017
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There were plenty of games mate. Needed a penalty to beat Boro at home. Which came a few days after failing to break down Sunderland. Both teams got relegated...

There was Swansea away, which we all remember fondly because we won 3-1 with three last minute goals, but for 80 odd minutes we couldn't break them down... The Palace games you mentioned. Then there was the spell when we had no Harry where we drew about 3 games on the bounce.

Unfortunately, the better you get and the more fear you give opponents, games can go one of two ways. They sit back and make things tricky, or the opponent admit defeat before you take the pitch. We're not quite at the second level yet until we can prove to make games like Palace a norm. That's not easy to do after 8 months into a new system.
 
Starks said:
How easy people just forget.

And that was Pochettino, Eriksen, Dele etc all at their peak.

Teams have struggled to break down 10 men behind the ball for decades. Why some people are surprised that we do is beyond me

During the 16/17 season that we all suck off, there were plenty of games where we struggled to break teams down. Most of the time we managed to do so because we were relentless (like we were against Palace) or we ended up getting an early goal, which of course opens the game up.

People either have ridiculous expectations, don't understand football or just moan for the sake of it.
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Here are some examples - it wasn't all swashbuckling spurs from minute 1.

The difference here is that we had reporting like "spurs show character", "hard fought point" etc because little was expected of us and we had the media behind us.

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0-0 vs Bournemouth

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- 1-1 WBA

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. 0-0 Sunderland

. 1-0 West Ham (lost)

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1-0 Boro
 
Starks said:
I remember game at Old Trafford that year too. We'd just destroyed a team the week before.

And then we went and failed to break down Mourinhos United.

It happens.
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Yeah exactly.

Very few supporters are fully entertained from start to finish week in week out.

Teams have dips in form - and ours has some pretty obvious reasons behind it.
 
dudu said:
Yeah exactly.

Very few supporters are fully entertained from start to finish week in week out.

Teams have dips in form - and ours has some pretty obvious reasons behind it.
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And very few supporters care unless you're winning.

Why do you think 16/17 is remembered so fondly? Plenty of games where we won well. No one remembers the other half of games that were dogshit.

We were only 3 points better off at this stage in the 16/17 season than we are now!!

Beat Villa, and no one will be remembering the Palace game. Do you think City fans give a fuck about struggling to break down Brentford the other week?

Youre only as good as your last game.
 
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City can bore the life out of me too but ultimately they get the job done. At the end of the day it’s about getting the win no matter how we do it!
If anybody thinks we can dominate from start to finish and create a chance every time we go forward then they’ll be disappointed. All games are hard to win. Some you score early and destroy teams,some you have to grind out,some you have to show character and come back from being behind. It would be utterly boring if we win easy every game. What we’ve had this season is a mixed bag but it’s been a million times more exciting than the last 5 years.
 
Villa really will save a few players back for Sunday the league position would be worth way more than the Europa conference.Would have been better if the game against Ajax was a one off game. The only bonus would be if they went all the way in the cup more games and travel for them.And really looking at it they will go all the way
 
nicoclaesen said:
Werner,Sonny and Johnson can give any of their back 4 a few yards and still beat them for pace. There’s no excuse being offside against such a high line. Even Udogie,Porro and Sarr making runs from deeper will destroy them. A straight run from deeper and a diagonal pass should get you in behind. It’s what you do once you get there and how good the opposition are at recovering. We have the best in VDV at recovering and we will get away with it more than most that play that way.
When Chelsea played us when we were down to 9 men it was embarrassingly bad how many times they got caught offside.
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I 100% agree BUT the reality is few teams have been successful at achieving it, no team in the league has successfully played their oppo office than Villa, whatever it is they are doing (I've not spent any time watching them) they are the best in the League at doing it. They are exceptionally well-drilled, what makes it even more impressive is their back line isn't what I would call turbo-charged, so it's their collective out of possession system that works rather than relying on a fast defender to mop-up behind.

That said, yes, this game lends itself to precisely the opportunity to get at them but this does mean we will have to be brilliant in what we do rather than thinking a ball over the top will be enough. (watch us now lob countless balls behind their high-line for Sonny, Werner and Brennan to each bag hat-tricks loool)
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I 100% agree BUT the reality is few teams have been successful at achieving it, no team in the league has successfully played their oppo office than Villa, whatever it is they are doing (I've not spent any time watching them) they are the best in the League at doing it. They are exceptionally well-drilled, what makes it even more impressive is their back line isn't what I would call turbo-charged, so it's their collective out of possession system that works rather than relying on a fast defender to mop-up behind.

That said, yes, this game lends itself to precisely the opportunity to get at them but this does mean we will have to be brilliant in what we do rather than thinking a ball over the top will be enough. (watch us now lob countless balls behind their high-line for Sonny, Werner and Brennan to each bag hat-tricks loool)
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Pretty much.

I saw Newcastle beat them and I saw Chelsea beat them. None of the goals were long balls over the top. Newcastle caused them big problems with set pieces.

I just hope we don't go into the game and think knocking it over the top is all we need to do.

Fucking hell, it didn't even work in the home game against them and we scored our only goal through a set piece.
 
Starks said:
Pretty much.

I saw Newcastle beat them and I saw Chelsea beat them. None of the goals were long balls over the top. Newcastle caused them big problems with set pieces.

I just hope we don't go into the game and think knocking it over the top is all we need to do.

Fucking hell, it didn't even work in the home game against them and we scored our only goal through a set piece.
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I actually thought we played well against them at home, we were easily the better side, brilliant opening 15mins or so but looked dead on our feet in the final 10 and couldn't deal with highballs into our box.

In those first 15 mins we carved them open, Bentancur was highly influential and we lost his insition and control when he had to go off.

But all that said and done on paper the game plan looks set for us getting behind their high-line by utilising our pacey players (Timo, Sonny & Brennan) he may use Brennan as a sub again running at tired legs is a positive substitution. But it won't be easy as Villa know how to play their high-line superbly.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I 100% agree BUT the reality is few teams have been successful at achieving it, no team in the league has successfully played their oppo office than Villa, whatever it is they are doing (I've not spent any time watching them) they are the best in the League at doing it. They are exceptionally well-drilled, what makes it even more impressive is their back line isn't what I would call turbo-charged, so it's their collective out of possession system that works rather than relying on a fast defender to mop-up behind.

That said, yes, this game lends itself to precisely the opportunity to get at them but this does mean we will have to be brilliant in what we do rather than thinking a ball over the top will be enough. (watch us now lob countless balls behind their high-line for Sonny, Werner and Brennan to each bag hat-tricks loool)
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you are right that they are very good at what they do. I watched them against Utd weeks ago at old Trafford when they went two up and Man Utd constantly played through them or behind and they were terrible and ended up winning 3-2. I know it will be different at Villa Park but if we play it correctly they have vulnerabilities to be exposed. Whether we try exploit that is up to the manager,coaching staff and players.
I honestly have no worries about Villa away. I worry more about Chelsea and West Ham away and they are far worse teams than Villa.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I actually thought we played well against them at home, we were easily the better side, brilliant opening 15mins or so but looked dead on our feet in the final 10 and couldn't deal with highballs into our box.

In those first 15 mins we carved them open, Bentancur was highly influential and we lost his insition and control when he had to go off.

But all that said and done on paper the game plan looks set for us getting behind their high-line by utilising our pacey players (Timo, Sonny & Brennan) he may use Brennan as a sub again running at tired legs is a positive substitution. But it won't be easy as Villa know how to play their high-line superbly.
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I’d keep Johnson on the bench for this and use him when the game gets stretched and players are getting tired.
 
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Matt1882 said:
People moaned we were shit and won under conte and mourinho

Why is no one moaning we look shit and win now?
Doing fuck all with the ball is as bad as doing fuck all without it.
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For me this is night and day compared to Jose and Conte.

The main difference being we are now controlling matches. We keep possession. We don't sit back. We're trying to win rather than trying not to lose.

I don't necessarily subscribe to you opinion about our play but the comparison is more to the Poch era really. We kept the ball well then but sometimes it seemed we were passing just for the sake of it.
 
Starks said:
Pretty much.

I saw Newcastle beat them and I saw Chelsea beat them. None of the goals were long balls over the top. Newcastle caused them big problems with set pieces.

I just hope we don't go into the game and think knocking it over the top is all we need to do.

Fucking hell, it didn't even work in the home game against them and we scored our only goal through a set piece.
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It’s not just about knocking balls over the top. We will nott change how we play and against a team who play high line Villa you will pick them off easier if we can control the game like the game at home. I know we scored from a set piece but in 20 minutes we created great chances by playing through them. If we have willing runners there will be big spaces for players to run into because we will be able to open the game up as they press high and their whole team moves up. The key is breaking the press and that’s when there will be loads of space in behind to hurt them. Our midfield players and inverted full backs are vital on Sunday to make that happen.
 
dudu said:
Dude, Pochs team was booed off the pitch a couple of times in their first season and he struggled many many times to break down low blocks.

Even in our best season under him we beat palace 1-0 in both games needing an 80th min winner from Wanyama in the first and Eriksen in the second game.

Edit - here is the report from April 2017

"Tottenham kept up the pressure on Premier League leaders Chelsea as Christian Eriksen's superb long-range strike secured a hard-fought victory at Crystal Palace.

Spurs had struggled to break down a disciplined Palace side for much of the game and it looked like they would have to settle for a point.

But Eriksen fired into the bottom corner from 30 yards late on to keep Spurs within four points of Chelsea with five games remaining.

Palace, who lost influential defender Mamadou Sakho to injury in the second half, rarely threatened as they concentrated on frustrating the visitors."
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I have never been one of those silly fanbois that thinks everything in the Poch era was good and have regularly cited awful games from him.
 
Billy Bob mate said:
For me this is night and day compared to Jose and Conte.

The main difference being we are now controlling matches. We keep possession. We don't sit back. We're trying to win rather than trying not to lose.

I don't necessarily subscribe to you opinion about our play but the comparison is more to the Poch era really. We kept the ball well then but sometimes it seemed we were passing just for the sake of it.
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You can control a match with and without the ball though.
Mourinho against Woolwich and City was a great example of that. They had loads of the ball and did absolutely no damage to us whatsoever. We controlled where they had it, where they could move it to and what they could do with it. Clean sheets, 2-0 wins, almost flawless performances.

The issue for me with their style of play is them relying on the performance being flawless. When we had the likes of Dier, Sanchez, Davies, Lloris, Winks etc conspiring week after week to throw the ball in our own net.
When it worked it was great, when it didn't, we looked like clowns. And then Mourinho and Conte get angry at the errors and it goes downhill from there.

This style is barely different in that we control where everything happens, we just do it with the ball. And the man management is totally different. Players aren't scared to make mistakes.
 
Guido 🇺🇦 said:
I actually thought we played well against them at home, we were easily the better side, brilliant opening 15mins or so but looked dead on our feet in the final 10 and couldn't deal with highballs into our box.

In those first 15 mins we carved them open, Bentancur was highly influential and we lost his insition and control when he had to go off.

But all that said and done on paper the game plan looks set for us getting behind their high-line by utilising our pacey players (Timo, Sonny & Brennan) he may use Brennan as a sub again running at tired legs is a positive substitution. But it won't be easy as Villa know how to play their high-line superbly.
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It was a really good performance. Thought we lost our edge when Bentancur went off injured, but we had a penalty denied and hit the woodwork twice aswell.

Id argue outside of Newcastle, it was our last Angeball type performance in my view.
 
Matt1882 said:
You can control a match with and without the ball though.
Mourinho against Woolwich and City was a great example of that. They had loads of the ball and did absolutely no damage to us whatsoever. We controlled where they had it, where they could move it to and what they could do with it. Clean sheets, 2-0 wins, almost flawless performances.

The issue for me with their style of play is them relying on the performance being flawless. When we had the likes of Dier, Sanchez, Davies, Lloris, Winks etc conspiring week after week to throw the ball in our own net.
When it worked it was great, when it didn't, we looked like clowns. And then Mourinho and Conte get angry at the errors and it goes downhill from there.

This style is barely different in that we control where everything happens, we just do it with the ball. And the man management is totally different. Players aren't scared to make mistakes.
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I hated watching us under Jose and Conte though.

Yes you can control games without the ball but it makes for a terrible watch even when we win.

Every match we go into now I'm excited for. Of course some games are frustrating and of course not everything goes to plan.

We're still a work in progress. There's growth to come. We can improve so the frustrating times grow smaller in number.

And that's why most fans are not up in arms - they can see that we're not where we wanna be yet but are much improved from where we were.
 
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