Summer 2014 Transfer Window DISCUSSION Thread

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Mensa said:
cahspur cahspur and you called this a "Boring ass Monday" have you ever got a prediction right? this thread has exploded since you said that!!

As for the new signings yes its a bit underwhelming but as world cup has taught us, get players who do a good job, perform in a system and we'll be alright, we are not in a position now building a stadium for a 40m gamble on a name who could be a cunt or useless
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I don't get how our signings have been underwhelming unless you have ridiculous expectations for a club that has been in the CL once in the last 5 years.
 
cahspur said:
I'm sorry my friend, but this simply isn't true. This is an excerpt from an article written in 2013 citing quotes from Dr Andrews (the pope of sports medicine) himself, as well as some statistics from a study written about in a recent medical journal:

-- Below is a comment from Dr. James Andrews on how athletes return from major knee reconstruction:

“They’re all different,” Andrews said. “There’s still a big spectrum in how they heal and how they come back . . . It’s hard to predict recovery from an ACL surgery, and to say that we’re getting them back quicker than we used to would be false information from my standpoint.”

Many don’t come back at all. A 2010 study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine found that only 63 percent of NFL athletes who had an ACL reconstruction returned to play another game. Roughly two out of three. And two years after ACL surgery, Andrews said, about 55 percent of NFL players are no longer playing in the league. For the majority, an ACL still is pretty synonymous with the end of a career.

So as you can see from one of the most renown orthopedic surgeons in the country, it is a pretty life-altering surgery, especially for a professional athlete. --


And this is for NFL players. It's important to note that association football players and gridiron football players build very different types of muscle. Gridiron players build vast amounts of white muscle for size, a kind that allows them to better compensate for the stresses placed on the joints. Association players' training is more geared towards building red muscle for endurance, and this kind does not provide the protection that white does due to its bulk and more fibrous nature.

So there's two important factors at hand here for why you likely have a misaligned sample from which you've developed your opinion:

1) The media does not tell the stories of the failures to recoup from major injuries. That's depressing, and people don't want to watch it. What spreads like wildfire and gets people talking and watching is the stories of hope, the success stories. Simple media phenomenon.

2) You, like me, are American. We're exposed to more American sports. American sports have become almost entirely based on size, and especially athletes obsessed with the accumulation of that white muscle. Therefore, it is more likely that we see athletes recover than they would from sports in the rest of the world.

This is not due to better modern medicine though bro, it's due to a displaced sample from which we develop our opinions. The fact is, cartilage is what it is. Cartilage is avascular, not great at healing, and was never meant to undertake the athletic demands we place upon it. There is nothing we can do in medicine to change that. Modern rehab techniques are intended to strengthen in areas to compensate for the weakness to fully allow it to heal as optimally as possible, but they can do nothing for that ligament itself.

So I'm sorry my friend, while I heavily respect your opinion specifically, in this case I wish I shared your hope so as to agree with your excitement.
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NFL is abnormal due to agree sheer size of rosters and because of non guaranteed contracts. Makes sense that a lot of the guys would be cut after injuries and have trouble finding another team. Rodriguez is also 24 and not in the traditional athletic prime age period of 26-31. One would guess that younger players would have a higher rate of recovery. Not something that would be captured in statistics like the one you quote. Would like to see those statistics flushed out for that type of stuff. Also I was under the impression that a lot of people attributed the ridiculous size and weight that these guys can build themselves into now as a reason for ACL tears.

I could name 50 or more athletes that have recovered just fine from ACL tears. Of course modern medicine is a contributing factor, it used to be when a player tore their ACL it was the end of their career. Maybe I'm just biased because I made a full recovery from my ACL tear but you rarely see a team blanche over a player with only one knee injury. Plus, I'm sure the club has done some digging into how Rodriguez's recovery is coming. We already have reports of his excellent recovery. While I understand the concern, for me a one off knee injury to a young player is a minimal concern in the world of modern sports medicine.
 
JDK said:
NFL is abnormal due to agree sheer size of rosters and because of non guaranteed contracts. Makes sense that a lot of the guys would be cut after injuries and have trouble finding another team. Rodriguez is also 24 and not in the traditional athletic prime age period of 26-31. One would guess that younger players would have a higher rate of recovery. Not something that would be captured in statistics like the one you quote. Would like to see those statistics flushed out for that type of stuff. Also I was under the impression that a lot of people attributed the ridiculous size and weight that these guys can build themselves into now as a reason for ACL tears.

I could name 50 or more athletes that have recovered just fine from ACL tears. Of course modern medicine is a contributing factor, it used to be when a player tore their ACL it was the end of their career. Maybe I'm just biased because I made a full recovery from my ACL tear but you rarely see a team blanche over a player with only one knee injury. Plus, I'm sure the club has done some digging into how Rodriguez's recovery is coming. We already have reports of his excellent recovery. While I understand the concern, for me a one off knee injury to a young player is a minimal concern in the world of modern sports medicine.
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An ACL tear is never a minimal concern, no matter how far we advance. The biology will always be the same, no matter how much we try to alter the surrounding environment of the ligament.

You're absolutely right, no chance the club would spend a penny had they not explored significantly into the potential of his recovery. I've no doubt they are promising. However, it is impossible to entirely assure he will ever return to 100%, and the likelihood is always one of the worst with this injury.

The age difference between 24 and 26-31 makes no noticeable difference, as the hormonal levels are almost entirely the same (they do affect cartilage integrity somewhat) and there is insignificantly more "wear and tear" by that point due to the body being at largely the same amount of supplying replenishment. A 40 year old, of course, but not a 24 year old and a 30 year old.

It's true, the size and weight of these modern athletes most certainly comes into play. Even in consideration of simple lever mechanics, we're now placing far more weight on the end of these levers than the fulcrums are meant to withstand. But again, due to the stronger nature of white muscle from having less mitochondria and more room for spread of cytoskeleton, it can handle more stress and shear than the red muscle in association football players.

I'm not saying you're wrong to hope, but I don't think there's less risk here than bringing in a player from abroad, and especially one with the record and proven ability as that of Konoplyanka. I also don't think Rodriguez will fare well facing the stacked box rather than getting in behind it as he's used to with Saints, as he's a converted striker after all.
 
All those wondering about the sense of buying an injured player should note that we bought an injured Steed Malbranque in the summer window and he didn't kick a ball until November...
 
cahspur said:
An ACL tear is never a minimal concern, no matter how far we advance. The biology will always be the same, no matter how much we try to alter the surrounding environment of the ligament.

You're absolutely right, no chance the club would spend a penny had they not explored significantly into the potential of his recovery. I've no doubt they are promising. However, it is impossible to entirely assure he will ever return to 100%, and the likelihood is always one of the worst with this injury.

The age difference between 24 and 26-31 makes no noticeable difference, as the hormonal levels are almost entirely the same (they do affect cartilage integrity somewhat) and there is insignificantly more "wear and tear" by that point due to the body being at largely the same amount of supplying replenishment. A 40 year old, of course, but not a 24 year old and a 30 year old.

It's true, the size and weight of these modern athletes most certainly comes into play. Even in consideration of simple lever mechanics, we're now placing far more weight on the end of these levers than the fulcrums are meant to withstand. But again, due to the stronger nature of white muscle from having less mitochondria and more room for spread of cytoskeleton, it can handle more stress and shear than the red muscle in association football players.

I'm not saying you're wrong to hope, but I don't think there's less risk here than bringing in a player from abroad, and especially one with the record and proven ability as that of Konoplyanka. I also don't think Rodriguez will fare well facing the stacked box rather than getting in behind it as he's used to with Saints, as he's a converted striker after all.
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keep going mate you are on a gold run, Carlito has called you a cunt now you have taken on JDK in a factual debate, and I have never seen him being wrong yet! You are a soldier I give you that
 
Mensa said:
keep going mate you are on a gold run, Carlito has called you a cunt now you have taken on JDK in a factual debate, and I have never seen him being wrong yet! You are a soldier I give you that
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Lol I'm not sure Carlito has ever even referred to his mother affectionately.

JDK's a good dude, and I probably agree with him about football a good 98-99% of the time, but on this one I just can't. The medical evidence against it is just overwhelming.
 
cahspur said:
An ACL tear is never a minimal concern, no matter how far we advance. The biology will always be the same, no matter how much we try to alter the surrounding environment of the ligament.

You're absolutely right, no chance the club would spend a penny had they not explored significantly into the potential of his recovery. I've no doubt they are promising. However, it is impossible to entirely assure he will ever return to 100%, and the likelihood is always one of the worst with this injury.

The age difference between 24 and 26-31 makes no noticeable difference, as the hormonal levels are almost entirely the same (they do affect cartilage integrity somewhat) and there is insignificantly more "wear and tear" by that point due to the body being at largely the same amount of supplying replenishment. A 40 year old, of course, but not a 24 year old and a 30 year old.

It's true, the size and weight of these modern athletes most certainly comes into play. Even in consideration of simple lever mechanics, we're now placing far more weight on the end of these levers than the fulcrums are meant to withstand. But again, due to the stronger nature of white muscle from having less mitochondria and more room for spread of cytoskeleton, it can handle more stress and shear than the red muscle in association football players.

I'm not saying you're wrong to hope, but I don't think there's less risk here than bringing in a player from abroad, and especially one with the record and proven ability as that of Konoplyanka. I also don't think Rodriguez will fare well facing the stacked box rather than getting in behind it as he's used to with Saints, as he's a converted striker after all.
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I just think you're upset we aren't getting Konoplyanka more than you're bothered by the knee injury. Three of the top nine NFL rushing leaders last season have torn their ACL. Three of the top eight NFL passing leaders have torn their ACLs. The league's best cornerback in Darelle Revis tore his ACL. It doesn't exactly take a medical miracle to get these guys back playing at a high level. The numbers aren't overwhelmingly against it like you're trying to depict. Most good players come back to within 90% of their previous numbers.

Konoplyanka and Rodriguez are almost exactly the same age. Rodriguez scored 15 goals in the Premier League last year. Konoplyanka has never scored more than 8 in a season in the Ukrainian league. As for the idea that he's going to be up against more compact defenses, Southampton led the Prem in possession last season. It's not like they were hitting teams on the counter with acres of space. Plus, we will be the exact same style this year and instead he'll get Lamela, Eriksen, Soldado, and Adebayor playing him in behind.

You're blinded by your love of other LWs to not realize that adding Rodriguez would be massive for us.
 
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