Summer Transfer Thread 2023! - Closed (Maybe)

[Richard Arlison]

Going overboard is spending 30-40m pounds sterling on him and acting like he is the chosen one to save our defense. What I'm doing is simply showing real-life situations where he has defended like an absolute mug, and looking for an explanation as to why he is defending like this. These are not just isolated incidents either, that's why I'm posting so many clips, these are NOT one-off mistakes.

I'm attempting to temper expectations and give a realistic view of him as a player. Most have never seen anything of him, I'm trying to show the real Van de Ven. If you have a problem with that so be it.

As a club we deserve better than a good idea in theory. We deserve real defensive ability.

The problem will be when fans hang their hopes on VDV being the club's attempt at rectifying the mess we have at CB and he has unrealistic expectations placed on him.

By age, experience, data, and eye test, Tapsoba is much more ready to carry that pressure. VDV could come in, make a couple of horrible mistakes and fans will feel let down and instantly dump him into the pile with Tanguy, Gio, Richy, Porro, Kulu or whoever else they feel let down by.

But in truth it would be on the club for solving a long-neglected issue in the squad with a fresh kid that has some talent. If we were a big club we'd be getting our top target AND VDV then developing him as the project he is.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Come on man.. it could be possible he’s very happy playing CL football for his boyhood club.

Did I say he isn't?

 

[Fattynomates]

Could you imagine if Rice was French

Riz

 

[Richard Arlison]

If you didn't think he was lying, you'd admit that it was his choice to stay, and that you were wrong, but you're not willing to do that are you?

Inter had financial difficulties, perhaps they tried to push him out the door. Perhaps his agent tried to convince him to come. I have no idea, the only thing I know is that he preferred to stay at Inter, which isn't much of a surprise, the man has an Inter tattoo.

The talks failed. That's the ONLY thing we know for certain because he's still at Inter.

 

[JDefoe]

That's poor defending.

But I never said he was flawless. I've seen errors from some of the most experienced defenders.

If we're not capable of coaching footballers and improving them the what's even the point?

We might aswell get rid of Porro and Udogie whilst we're at it. Because there you have a right back who cannot mark or read an offensive players runs and a left back who allows the spade of the titanic between himself and the offensive player and most of the time cannot be arsed to get back.

Can you completely rewire a player’s DNA to make them aggressive and decisive in tackling, when their innate inclination is to stand off and allow players to dribble past them?

Can you build a player’s aerial tracking ability from the ground up, being basically a 0 to being elite?

Also, Porro happens to be probably the best attacking young RWB in Europe and Udogie similarly has incredible offensive potential. The reason you must get your CB signing absolutely spot on is to cover for those two, to allow their defensive deficiencies because of their amazing attacking potential. You can scheme and hide and cover for lacking defensive ability in fullbacks. You absolutely cannot mess around and get away with it in a centre back.

 

[sudoku]

He's not as good as initially advertised. He's still good obviously. but Playing next to Orban at Leipzig covered a lot of his inidividual mistakes that he hasn't eliminated from his game.

First time I saw Upmechanic I though he was the bees knees.
2nd and 3rd time I couldn't believe I was watching the same guy
That's why I am not gonna get wound up about signing or not signing a CB I have not even watched in a game.

 

[Achilles]

We'll probably even miss out on Lenglet at this rate!

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

The talks failed. That's the ONLY thing we know for certain because he's still at Inter.

Bastoni or not, Vertonghen left 3 years ago and was pretty much done in his last season here as well. 3 to 4 seasons later we're 2 weeks away from going in with Dier or Davies in that position. Doesnt really matter if its Bastoni, Gvardiol, Torres, Botman, Ndicka, Badiashile or anyone else or the reasons behind it. Its just a bit shit.

 

[Starks]

Can you completely rewire a player’s DNA to make them aggressive and decisive in tackling, when their innate inclination is to stand off and allow players to dribble past them?

I think that's the point of coaching and improving players.

Can you fix a player’s aerial tracking ability from being basically a 0 to being elite?

He doesn't have to be elite. He has to fit the profile Ange needs for a left sided centre back.

Is Richarlison better than Harry Kane? No. Is he potentially better suited for how this manager wants to play football? Yes.

Also, Porro happens to be probably the best attacking young RWB in Europe

He's no defender though. We all know that. He isn't being asked to play right wing back in this system, so that's irrelevant.

and Udogie similarly has incredible offensive potential.

Absolutely. But that still doesn't negate the negatives he brings defensively.

You can't pick and choose whos negatives you choose to ignore. Does van de Ven have negatives? Yep. But as mentioned numerous times, he has plenty of positives for the system he would be asked to play in.

Do Porro, Romero, Udogie all have negatives? Absolutely. But we like their positive alot more.

The reason you must get your CB signing absolutely spot on is to cover for those two, to allow their defensive deficiencies because of their amazing attacking potential. You can scheme and hide and cover for lacking defensive ability in fullbacks. You absolutely cannot mess around with it in a centre back.

We need a centre back who is relatively quick and someone who is not scared of having the ball at their feet but also someone with the right personality of wanting to improve. Van de Ven happens to match those characteristics. It also helps his case that he's left footed.

We're going to be dominating possession in most games this season. If the opponents manage to get to the point where they're troubling our centre backs, something has gone wrong elsewhere.

Would be transform our defence? We won't know until he's there. But he'd certainly be better suited to what we have now.

 

[Achilles]

Yes to all of that, except it won't be Tapsoba it'll be Lenglet or equivalent.

Who does equivalent play for? Some 2nd tier Portuguese team?

 

[GGTH]

Can you build a player’s aerial tracking ability from the ground up, being basically a 0 to being elite?

VDV is athletic and around 6'4, I really don't see why he can't be trained to be at least competent at challenging for headers, he's just young for a starting CB and needs more experience.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Bastoni or not, Vertonghen left 3 years ago and was pretty much done in his last season here as well. 3 to 4 seasons later we're 2 weeks away from going in with Dier or Davies in that position. Doesnt really matter if its Bastoni, Gvardiol, Torres, Botman, Ndicka, Badiashile or anyone else or the reasons behind it. Its just a bit shit.

This is the point I made.

I said regardless of the reason why each one failed, they are a catalogue of failures.

People then want to avoid that catalogue of failures by trying to get into the details of each one to show that really it's unfair because each of them could never have happened.

We will be having the exact same conversation about Tapsoba and that's been obvious for weeks now.

 

[Macch]

Can you completely rewire a player’s DNA to make them aggressive and decisive in tackling, when their innate inclination is to stand off and allow players to dribble past them?

Can you build a player’s aerial tracking ability from the ground up, being basically a 0 to being elite?

Also, Porro happens to be probably the best attacking young RWB in Europe and Udogie similarly has incredible offensive potential. The reason you must get your CB signing absolutely spot on is to cover for those two, to allow their defensive deficiencies because of their amazing attacking potential. You can scheme and hide and cover for lacking defensive ability in fullbacks. You absolutely cannot mess around and get away with it in a centre back.

Given the current squad, the CB we target should be comfortable mopping up and covering for the other 3 in the back line. We need a nothing fancy reliable player.

 

[Kaz Hirai]

Going overboard is spending 30-40m pounds sterling on him and acting like he is the chosen one to save our defense. What I'm doing is simply showing real-life situations where he has defended like an absolute mug, and looking for an explanation as to why he is defending like this. These are not just isolated incidents either, that's why I'm posting so many clips, these are NOT one-off mistakes.

I'm attempting to temper expectations and give a realistic view of him as a player. Most have never seen anything of him, I'm trying to show the real Van de Ven. If you have a problem with that so be it.

As a club we deserve better than a good idea in theory. We deserve real defensive ability.

Mmm..well more fool them for expecting a raw 22 year old kid to suddenly be a defensive titan. It should be fairly obvious that he's a project signing with an eye for the future with potential financial upside unlike tapsoba who is the one for the now. Hence from what i've seen people are more desperate for the club to sign him rather than the cheaper kid.
a compliation of videos showing the mistakes of a 21 year old arent really worth anymore than the complilations of him doing excellent things

 

[Col_McCafferty]

didnt he only recently turn 22? Think you're going a bit overboard searching for clips to show us how shit you think he is.

I know, did this guy run over his foot or blank his request for a selfie or something?

It's very weird.

We haven't even signed him yet anyway.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

Watch what Van de Ven does here. Tall #5 wearing the black boots for reference.


On 0:10 and then 7:02



This is terrifying. I am literally having nightmares over his horror defending on both of these goals. Does that not scare the shit out of you? Seriously. I’m horrified. I’m sick watching that. His “defending” on the 7:05 goal from Musiala is vomit-worthy and also indicative of his passive stand-offish style.

Some people!for some strange reason insist he is better than Tapsoba...he isn't. Tapsoba does have errors in him but he has a higher general standard than the achingly young VDV. Here's the thing I think our defence is so catastrophic ; VDV, Jonnny Evans, Craig Dawson, Jochim Anderson all improve us. But Tapsoba has the capacity to actually push Romero as our best defender. If we want to fix our problems selling Sanches abd replacing him with Van de ven is short term treading water. Buying Tapsoba even at 42 million pounds is the progressive thing to do. Honestly think we should have shown ambition and purchased both.

 

[Rebrov_Likes]

Dunno why the phrase “two bald guys fighting over a comb” comes to mind…

 

[RealCoolYid]

where does this 65m bid come from?

were you privy to that figure?

I'd love to see the documentation.

This is why I said no point getting into each one.

If it was just Bastoni, we can all accept that it was difficult and we just couldn't get it over line. Even if Newcastle paid the 70m and got Tonali but whatever...

But it's been difficult over and over again. Now it's a pattern of failure.

Mate. I think I pretty clearly stated my position at the start. I go by what is reported

But thanks for making me repeat myself

So I wasn’t privy

And however much you’ll love to see the documentation you won’t

The 65m was figured bandied about at the time from reports

And there was plenty of reason to get into it …. If you rule out ‘getting into this one’ on the basis that we aren’t included in all the clubs internal businesses details then it rules out ‘getting into any’ discussion…, agreed ?

The bottom line is. Fuck me again! That he has on record stated he didn’t want to come

So unless there was such a bid that would turn Inter hostile to force him out the club then all the talk of bids are moot. Your 70 from your imagination My 65 from media reports

But what does stand is that this cannot be chalked off as a Daniel failure

And I think we can agree it’s been demonstrated in fairly irrefutable fashion

Now. I’m not DL great defender (no pun intended) So if he fails with tapsoba. Then he’ll be culpable in my opinion

But so far on that list only skrinikar is the one I’ll agree

Unless you know of reasons why we can surplant man city

 

[NotThatTedHughes]

Oh well then, Harry Redknapp must be wrong then...

Gotta be honest with you.
I hated Harry with a fucking passion. Probably more so than Gross, Graham or Mourinho.
A total fraud and a chancer.
Still haven’t forgiven him for losing to a relegated Pompey in the FA Cup semifinal with Bale and Modric while he fucking twerked for another job.

 

[JDefoe]

Gotta be honest with you.
I hated Harry with a fucking passion. Probably more so than Gross, Graham or Mourinho.
A total fraud and a chancer.
Still haven’t forgiven him for losing to a relegated Pompey in the FA Cup semifinal with Bale and Modric while he fucking twerked for another job.

And yet, behind Pochettino, he is by far and away our best and most successful manager of the 21st century by some distance.