Nottingham Forest VS Tottenham Hotspur. Sunday the 28th August 2022. City Ground 16:30

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These people shouting "trust the plan" clearly don't seem to pay any attention to what Kane or Conte actually said themselves. Kane said it was not our plan at all (as he said against Chelsea too) but that we fundamentally couldn't play how we were trying to play. Conte came out and reiterated that.


As far as the general passivity and lack of intensity in everything we do right now, that has to come from the coach.

You're gonna get a lot of shit for this post (sadly) but I more or less agree with you. It makes zero sense to pretend Conte's plan includes Chelsea having us by the balls for 90 minutes, or an out of form away from home Wolves limiting our chances & controlling possession. Or least of all a promoted side pinning us in to our own half for large periods of a match.

We have to give credit to the personnel in that they are dealing with said situations well. We're not making defensive errors & going forward we are seriously good at punishing sides. But I have to believe Conte wants more from us and won't be content with handing the initiative to every side regardless of their level.
 
You're gonna get a lot of shit for this post (sadly) but I more or less agree with you. It makes zero sense to pretend Conte's plan includes Chelsea having us by the balls for 90 minutes, or an out of form away from home Wolves limiting our chances & controlling possession. Or least of all a promoted side pinning us in to our own half for large periods of a match.

We have to give credit to the personnel in that they are dealing with said situations well. We're not making defensive errors & going forward we are seriously good at punishing sides. But I have to believe Conte wants more from us and won't be content with handing the initiative to every side regardless of their level.

I've always acknowledged Conte can coach, obviously. I was being partly facetious with the podcast remark, but his Juve, Chelsea and Inter teams were nowhere near this passive and lacking in aggression.

The personnel thing isn't all his fault (but he's got a better bunch than his last couple of predecessors), but the general "attitude" and approach of the team is.

A great example is Son. He's been utterly gash for 4 games now. He's always gash without the ball or at hold up, but even attacking stuff he's having one of his typical hiatuses. Dropping him and putting our 60m new signing - who is known to graft at least - in would send a message and set some standard. But no.
 
You're gonna get a lot of shit for this post (sadly) but I more or less agree with you. It makes zero sense to pretend Conte's plan includes Chelsea having us by the balls for 90 minutes, or an out of form away from home Wolves limiting our chances & controlling possession. Or least of all a promoted side pinning us in to our own half for large periods of a match.

We have to give credit to the personnel in that they are dealing with said situations well. We're not making defensive errors & going forward we are seriously good at punishing sides. But I have to believe Conte wants more from us and won't be content with handing the initiative to every side regardless of their level.
I couldn't have put it any better than he did

Too many people have decided that because we have conte , everything we do , good or bad is a calculated choice and all part of a master plan , utterly bizarre

we aren't playing well right now , it's pretty obvious and there's nothing wrong in admitting that.

I have faith that we will improve but this mentality of "everything is great" is extremely childish and that you can't be happy with the results but concerned by the performances or you are a whining melt or a gooner

it's tiresome
 
Mate, seriously. He didn't "stop" him, Richarlison had already passed the ball. It wasn't a tackle, it was a premeditated foul. It could be construed as dangerous foul play, which is a Red card offence.

I'm not one of those that wants the game to be diluted in the way it has been, there's a beauty in a well timed tackle that cleans the player out when the ball is won, but it's about winning the ball.

If you take a player out when the ball is nowhere near him, that's not a contact sport, it's petulance.

Or an assault

Do that on a High Street on a Saturday night there’s a good chance you’d be nicked!
 
I find it hard to moan about playing style when we've had our best start in about ten years and are unbeaten since that horrible Burnley defeat...some of you cunts want everything despite being given plenty...
 
I've always acknowledged Conte can coach, obviously. I was being partly facetious with the podcast remark, but his Juve, Chelsea and Inter teams were nowhere near this passive and lacking in aggression.

The personnel thing isn't all his fault (but he's got a better bunch than his last couple of predecessors), but the general "attitude" and approach of the team is.

A great example is Son. He's been utterly gash for 4 games now. He's always gash without the ball or at hold up, but even attacking stuff he's having one of his typical hiatuses. Dropping him and putting our 60m new signing - who is known to graft at least - in would send a message and set some standard. But no.
Let me ask you this and this is the big question for me -

Say we lose Son out to injury or he just doesn't hit form and Richarlison takes the LW spot full time

And then say we make Bissouma a player that starts 80% of our games

Then we put in our new signings as starters that rotate with one another

Are we a trophy winning team? Do we get top 4 ahead of Chelsea and Woolwich?
 
Thanks to those of you who gave Forest credit for taking the game to you, especially in the first half.

But some of the posts here are cringeworthy. Just total hyperbole. Embarrassing. Is this what has happened to the PL? The quality of the football has gone up, but so has the level of drivel. Some of you don’t sound like you have the attention span to watch a game for 90 minutes, let alone analyse it properly.

🧂 🧂 🧂 🧂 🧂 🧂 🧂 🧂
 
I couldn't have put it any better than he did

Too many people have decided that because we have conte , everything we do , good or bad is a calculated choice and all part of a master plan , utterly bizarre

we aren't playing well right now , it's pretty obvious and there's nothing wrong in admitting that.

I have faith that we will improve but this mentality of "everything is great" is extremely childish and that you can't be happy with the results but concerned by the performances or you are a whining melt or a gooner

it's tiresome

They're almost certainly all the same people who were saying 'but we won' when we were getting results under Jose & Nuno. Especially with the former it was always 'that's the plan' as the answer to everything, even in games where very clearly the plan probably wasn't constantly lose the ball & score from our only opportunity.

And those guys aren't worth bothering with. They think they're better fans because they refuse to ever criticise or analyse what is happening, its just blind faith. Which is fine & everyone can support the team however they like, but they don't get to tell others that they're not real fans if they have a different perspective.

I think we will improve with a few of the new signings settling in more. If we can kick on then the good aspects of our play (the defensive organisation & resilience, the decision making in the final third etc) could see us be a serious threat. I'm also of the opinion that Conte himself won't be entirely pleased with what he's seeing and will make tactical tweaks in the coming games. He was incredibly animated all game, more so even than usual.
 
These people shouting "trust the plan" clearly don't seem to pay any attention to what Kane or Conte actually said themselves. Kane said it was not our plan at all (as he said against Chelsea too) but that we fundamentally couldn't play how we were trying to play. Conte came out and reiterated that.

Very, very worrying that a newly promoted team, with the chaos of a bunch of new players playing together for the first time can knock (a second year Conte side with a full pre season and a couple of his additions) us so fucking far out of our supposed game plan.

And I also don't see what part of "being comfortable" is, for the third week running, not fucking challenging or pressurising anyone until they got to our fucking box?

We saw what happened when we did this against a half decent team, we got mullered, and only managed to fluke a draw because they couldn't bury chances. This is why some of us are worried. We've just gone back to being the Harry Kane team again.

"But Conte has patterns of play"

Well, yes, I've listened to the podcasts too. But fundamentally our "pattern of play" lately seems to be passively sit back, wait for the oppo to cough up the ball, then hump it over the plodders in midfield and hope Kane, Son and Kulusevski pull a rabbit out their arses. Right now it's only looking a Kulusevski different to Mourinho's genius patterns of play.

Everyone kept saying "new FB's will fix it all" well, Conte got his dream boy Peresic on one flank and it's definitely not fixed the whole passive sitting back, unable to actually possess the ball thing. Are we really one RWB away from being a great team? Are we bollocks. It doesn't matter who our WB's are, Hojbjerg and Bentancur aren't threading through balls to them a dozen times a game.

We are not helped by Romero being out, we've not lost much defensively, Sanchez has done Ok in that department, but neither Sanchez or Davies can step into that midfield to supplement it and give help us play from the back. Hojbjerg and Bentancur aren't particularly comfortable receiving the ball under pressure, compounded by them often being outnumbered as teams have figured out we always play with 2cm's and at least two of CB's aren't footballers, 3 if Romero's out (Conte could help this by putting Lenglet in instead of Davies, I hope it's just match fitness - and not risk aversion).

If we take Conte at his word, and he wants us to have more of the ball, more possession and more personality in games, he's got to solve these problems. There's got to be more to just parking a bus and waiting for breaks - because we'll get figured out - Chelsea and Wolves have already showed it';s not that hard to figure out.

At Inter his answer was to play an orthodox 532, the midfield three of Brozavic, Barella +1 (Eriksen, Vidal, Gagliardini) which gave them more control. I think the way Son's been playing, on one of his "contributing very little" phases, we could easily accommodate this.

If we are going to persist with a CM2, then short term, we need to have better footballing CB's in all three positions, especially the wide (RCB/LCB) two, and mid-long term, we need more than Hojbjerg and Bentancur offer. To be honest, IMO, in any CM2 you need more than these two offer, they are decent trundlers. Jacks of a couple of things masters of none. Low risk but pretty low reward, albeit reliable (in as much as you know exactly what you are going to get every game) plodders.


As far as the general passivity and lack of intensity in everything we do right now, that has to come from the coach.

TLDR
 
bus-conductor bus-conductor Deuterz Deuterz

1. Isn't the fact that we've improved in the 2nd half of games evidence that these passivity issues are solvable and therefore not that worrying?

2. xG stats prove that we have been creating a lot of chances. Maybe the side effect of 3-4-3 formation is that we are dangerous in attack and resolute in defence but may not be controlling games throughout?

3. Son was okay today, I think criticism has been OTT. Threaded a good pass to Kane who then missed a 1on1, and also pinged a diagonal where Kulu missed a decent chance with his right foot. His shot early on from outside the box was timed sweetly with great technique, narrowly over the bar. It was probably a better shot than Kane's first goal ironically... many make the mistake of narrowly looking at outcome and working backwards.

With that being said, I am happy for Son to be dropped for Richarlison who has really impressed me, but I would not be keen for Son to be dropped for another midfielder.
 
bus-conductor bus-conductor Deuterz Deuterz

1. Isn't the fact that we've improved in the 2nd half of games evidence that these passivity issues are solvable and therefore not that worrying?

2. xG stats prove that we have been creating a lot of chances. Maybe the side effect of 3-4-3 formation is that we are dangerous in attack and resolute in defence but may not be controlling games throughout?

3. Son was okay today, I think criticism has been OTT. Threaded a good pass to Kane who then missed a 1on1, and also pinged a diagonal where Kulu missed a decent chance with his right foot. His shot early on from outside the box was timed sweetly with great technique, narrowly over the bar. It was probably a better shot than Kane's first goal ironically... many make the mistake of narrowly looking at outcome and working backwards.

With that being said, I am happy for Son to be dropped for Richarlison who has really impressed me, but I would not be keen for Son to be dropped for another midfielder.

1. We've improved but still not to a convincing level. I thought we were mostly very much second best in the second half vs Chelsea, Conte made some big chances & the game became chaotic, which we benefitted from. Vs Wolves we improved (couldn't get worse) but open play chance creation was poor, we scored from a really high xG set piece which papers over cracks. Vs Forest we saw the biggest improvement but I think their number of signings showed, they fatigued & their cohesiveness started to go.

2. xG v Chelsea & Wolves wasn't notably high. In both games we scored very high xG chances from set plays. Penalty vs Forest puts a shine on our xG in that game. With this front 3 we will always create big opportunities.

3. Think his confidence is shot (a player we associate with overachieving on xG yet looks hesistant in front of goal atm) and he could do with the bench if it doesn't improve. Really lazy first half run where there was no need to be offside. I think bus-conductor bus-conductor makes a solid point but can equally see the wisdom of trying to play him in to form as he's a purple patch asset who tends to massively overachieve when he gets firing.
 
I actually thought we played well and the score flattered Forest. The second half we practically walked through them five times, they were wide open. If it wasn’t for wastefulness from the front three easily could’ve had 4-0.
 
I find it hard to moan about playing style when we've had our best start in about ten years and are unbeaten since that horrible Burnley defeat...some of you cunts want everything despite being given plenty...
Really happy with the points tally

Just a bit concerned with how we are playing

never said I want everything , just want to see us play with a bit more vigour , if that makes me a cunt in the eyes of some on here , then so be it

Oh and we lost to Brighton and Utd since that Burnley game ...
 
bus-conductor bus-conductor Deuterz Deuterz

1. Isn't the fact that we've improved in the 2nd half of games evidence that these passivity issues are solvable and therefore not that worrying?

2. xG stats prove that we have been creating a lot of chances. Maybe the side effect of 3-4-3 formation is that we are dangerous in attack and resolute in defence but may not be controlling games throughout?

3. Son was okay today, I think criticism has been OTT. Threaded a good pass to Kane who then missed a 1on1, and also pinged a diagonal where Kulu missed a decent chance with his right foot. His shot early on from outside the box was timed sweetly with great technique, narrowly over the bar. It was probably a better shot than Kane's first goal ironically... many make the mistake of narrowly looking at outcome and working backwards.

With that being said, I am happy for Son to be dropped for Richarlison who has really impressed me, but I would not be keen for Son to be dropped for another midfielder.

Ignoring peripheral points (Son has been fucking terrible, you have a point re X/G) I'm just disappointed at how lethargic we are without the ball. I don't expect a Conte team to be a gagen pressing machine or playing ticky tacka - but I do expect to see some aggression, dynamism, intensity. What we've seen for the last three games was lethargy, passiveness, standing off making no attempt to pressure the ball until it gets to our 25 yard line.
 
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