Harry Kane

[Deuterz]

You can talk about the off seasons Lewandowski, Benzema etc. have had, but fact is, they're still on top of their game NOW and show little to no signs of slowing down. Kane on the other hand looks like shit.

They had off seasons/periods in their career, and then recovered. Perfectly possible Kane will do the same, but you're declaring him totally done, and marking out seasons where he exceeded xG and ones where he was top scorer/top assister as part of his decline because of 'advanced metrics' which other top strikers having top seasons have looked similar in.

Awful start to the season, but some aren't ready to declare him shot as a player because of it, you obviously are. Only time will tell who is right.

 

[KaneDomBadBoy]

Awful start to the season, but some aren't ready to declare him shot as a player because of it, you obviously are. Only time will tell who is right.

This conversation reminds me of Dele and Eriksen before they went to shit.
To this day, some in here thing Dele is coming back.

 

[Skippa18]

Ab

Todd, I know you’ve been saying this for a while now but for the most part, Kane is essentially scoring goals that any striker would be scoring by way of just playing striker for Spurs. Like you said before, there is no marginal benefit of having Kane as most of his goals are goals that most strikers would be scoring. And stats back your thesis up.

Absolute BS look at some of the angles he scored from last season. Only very good finishers put them away

 

[Skippa18]

He had the most goals last season but also had the highest xG. That has a lot to do with it. He was getting the best service.

This post proves your being an absolute clown

 

[CerealMaterial]

This thread

Since posting this we’ve somehow moved 3 pages ahead but managed to stay still at the same time.

 

[cretinousgoat]

Honestly, stop giving Ndomb the attention he seeks. Nearly everyone knows he's a troll. Just don't respond. Use the disagree button if you disagree, and let him argue with himself.

P.S to keep this on topic, I firmly believe that Kane will score more goals, at some point, in the near future, against someone (for spurs).

 

[Matt1882]

Since posting this we’ve somehow moved 3 pages ahead but managed to stay still at the same time.

What always makes me laugh is that I have so many on ignore now, that 3 pages consists of about 4 posts for me.

 

[CerealMaterial]

Honestly, stop giving Ndomb the attention he seeks. Nearly everyone knows he's a troll. Just don't respond. Use the disagree button if you disagree, and let him argue with himself.

P.S to keep this on topic, I firmly believe that Kane will score more goals, at some point, in the near future, against someone (for spurs).

I really hope I’m wrong but that’s been my feeling for the last 11 games and I’m at the point where I just can’t see it happening. Not in the numbers that he used to put up.
The way he’s been on the pitch just doesn’t fill me with a lot of confidence.

But hey I’m more than happy to be wrong.

 

[cretinousgoat]

I really hope I’m wrong but that’s been my feeling for the last 11 games and I’m at the point where I just can’t see it happening. Not in the numbers that he used to put up.
The way he’s been on the pitch just doesn’t fill me with a lot of confidence.

But hey I’m more than happy to be wrong.

Hey, I didn't say how many goals or against who!

 

[todd1882]

...

Unless we're to believe pretty much all elite strikers aren't actually that good at finishing, what's the end goal here?

yes yes a thousand times yes. Good of you to inch forward to the proper way (my way) of thinking. You are almost there but the truth lies before you and it shall set your footballing mind free. ALL strikers are overrated and this is getting you there. And MOST are not that good at finishing. Harry happens to be both. So the best way to get a 20 goal striker is to have a better team creating more chances for them to fluff but get the occasional scuff to go in. Otherwise they need to work their fat. lazy asses and do the other thankless work.

If only I could get my friend Igula to see this and free him from his mental captors.

 

[Deuterz]

yes yes a thousand times yes. Good of you to inch forward to the proper way (my way) of thinking. You are almost there but the truth lies before you and it shall set your footballing mind free. ALL strikers are overrated and this is getting you there. And MOST are not that good at finishing. Harry happens to be both. So the best way to get a 20 goal striker is to have a better team creating more chances for them to fluff but get the occasional scuff to go in. Otherwise they need to work their fat. lazy asses and do the other thankless work.

If only I could get my friend Igula to see this and free him from his mental captors.

 

[todd1882]

Isnt xAssists just the number of assists expected from the passes.

But I agree. I dont think you are getting it.

If the expected assists are 8 based on the chances created for strikers all across the league, then surely we should expect more goals from those same chances (and hence more assists) as we dont have the worst strikers in the league.

Ok, I'm back. Did you clear up this:

Spoiler

Maybe I should have been clearer. A chance that 'they' label as an xG of say 0.8 includes even the bottom half dumbos being able to miss chances. So for our players that chance is more like a 0.9. And turns out our player did score higher than 'expected'.

So if they said kane created a chance where his expected assist xA is 0.8, it should really be 0.9 because the donkeys from the whole league are really dragging that xA down. Since apparently Kane has had an xA of 8 assists, then in reality his expected assists were more.

Just watching the video of kanes assists on youtube , I felt we should have had 9 goals from them but it doesnt include the rest of the chances he created which werent scored, so that overall 'expected assists' is probably close to what he actually got.

If not I got some thoughts on making it a bit more clear. This thread moves so very quick I don't want to interrupt the slayings that are going on with actual dialogue.

 

[Beech]

It’s not about him being bothered it’s about the level he’s seen at outside of Spurs fan base and even England

Well I've spent most of my life living in Europe and most people I've come across rate Kane highly, or at least have done. Every player will have his detractors, and there seems to be some sort of weird schtick with some foreigners that if a footballer is English then he must be massively over-rated, just because they don't like our media.

But again, Harry's record speaks for itself, especially if you only take it on face value. Whether you think he's a world-class player, bang average or the English John Hartson, his record/stats for club and country are world-class.

 

[todd1882]

Lewa has the most goals this season because he has the most service. Same with a bunch of other seasons.

Oh what, don't like that logic do we? Because not Kane.

Just some observations and questions:

So Lewa's goals are a function of the team dynamic then?

And we see that Kane's biggest year scoring was 16-17 I believe which is the year we created and scored the most as a team. So from what you say then it's fair to conclude that Kane benefited from the service and efforts of those around him.

So are we to conclude that a striker's production is most dependent on factors outside of their immediate control?

 

[todd1882]

Ab

Absolute BS look at some of the angles he scored from last season. Only very good finishers put them away

And how many goals were of this variety? And are you considering the tons he missed...he of the 13.87% conversion rate? So if he's missing tons of sitters but scoring a couple worldies then is that a trade you'd like to make?

And here's Kane's goals from last year based on my opinion of the chances...as you will see not that many 'angles' and way more tapins and pens:

pen​

8yd header​

4yd tapin​

pen​

nice delicate left-footed chip​

tapin rebound off the post​

tapin served by sonny​

pen​

decent near post finish edge of box​

6yd header​

pen​

header from the corner​

delicate 4yd glancing header​

left footed roofer​

central swerving strike against Palace​

decent strike against Soton​

Pen​

Diving header​

20yd finish in the corner​

10-12yd across the keeper​

Backpost 2yd header vs Everton served up by sonny​

16-18yd finish acroos the keeper vs some claret/blue team​

VERY NICE 20yd CHIPPED CURLING FINISH VS PALACE​

3yd open goal header served by sonny 1st time​

5yd open goal rebound from Lamela's attempt off the post​

8yd finish vs LCFC nice move to get a yard of space​

pen​

somewhat lucky bounce for 3 yd finish vs NUFC​

12yd finish from beautiful ball from Sissoko(?) vs NUFC​

Nice chest down to left-footed 12yd(?) finish vs Everton​

Maybe 12 yd finish vs EFC​

Contested 10yd finish vs farmers i believe​

first time volley from 10yd vs LCFC​

 

[Murphy]

Fuck me are we still having the same fucking argument with the unconviceable trolls?

 

[sammyspurs]

Well I've spent most of my life living in Europe and most people I've come across rate Kane highly, or at least have done. Every player will have his detractors, and there seems to be some sort of weird schtick with some foreigners that if a footballer is English then he must be massively over-rated, just because they don't like our media.

But again, Harry's record speaks for itself, especially if you only take it on face value. Whether you think he's a world-class player, bang average or the English John Hartson, his record/stats for club and country are world-class.

I think he was good and now he isn’t very good
Simple as that

 

[Skippa18]

And how many goals were of this variety? And are you considering the tons he missed...he of the 13.87% conversion rate? So if he's missing tons of sitters but scoring a couple worldies then is that a trade you'd like to make?

And here's Kane's goals from last year based on my opinion of the chances...as you will see not that many 'angles' and way more tapins and pens:

pen​

8yd header​

4yd tapin​

pen​

nice delicate left-footed chip​

tapin rebound off the post​

tapin served by sonny​

pen​

decent near post finish edge of box​

6yd header​

pen​

header from the corner​

delicate 4yd glancing header​

left footed roofer​

central swerving strike against Palace​

decent strike against Soton​

Pen​

Diving header​

20yd finish in the corner​

10-12yd across the keeper​

Backpost 2yd header vs Everton served up by sonny​

16-18yd finish acroos the keeper vs some claret/blue team​

VERY NICE 20yd CHIPPED CURLING FINISH VS PALACE​

3yd open goal header served by sonny 1st time​

5yd open goal rebound from Lamela's attempt off the post​

8yd finish vs LCFC nice move to get a yard of space​

pen​

somewhat lucky bounce for 3 yd finish vs NUFC​

12yd finish from beautiful ball from Sissoko(?) vs NUFC​

Nice chest down to left-footed 12yd(?) finish vs Everton​

Maybe 12 yd finish vs EFC​

Contested 10yd finish vs farmers i believe​

first time volley from 10yd vs LCFC​

So from his prem goals last season

20% penalties
20%headers
20% tap ins(a few he still done some good work either good 1st touch or won the ball initially)
20% good finishes
20% shots outside box

That looks like a good all round striker to me.

 

[todd1882]

Fuck me are we still having the same fucking argument with the unconviceable trolls?

Just wondering, who exactly are the "unconvinceable trolls" in this dilemma? I've seen some compelling arguments but mostly only going in one direction. Sure, two very great polemicists are dishing it out but it's hard to fault their argumentation. And since no one has refuted their points then I can't imagine why someone would consider them "unconvinceable"...it's like claiming a GK is great when they've never been tested. We can only conclude they are intransigent when credible arguments have been put forward.

 

[sammyspurs]

So from his prem goals last season

20% penalties
20%headers
20% tap ins(a few he still done some good work either good 1st touch or won the ball initially)
20% good finishes
20% shots outside box

That looks like a good all round striker to me.

Now add the level of opponent:
80% bottom 10/Stoke
10% EL/EL qualifiers
10 % teams 6-10
0% v a team that sat top 4 at the time of playing them


Sounds like a well rounded average striker