Harry Winks

[bus-conductor]

Ibrahim Sangare makes the list. Plays for a struggling Toulouse at the moment but his clips look promising. Contract expires 2021:

Ibrahim Sangaré - Player profile 22/23

Ibrahim Sangaré, 25, from Cote d'Ivoire ➤ PSV Eindhoven, since 2020 ➤ Defensive Midfield ➤ Market value: €35.00m ➤ * Dec 2, 1997 in Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire

www.transfermarkt.com

Seen a lot of this kid. I've said this before, but he's got a big heart. By that I mean he never hides in games, no matter that he's been playing for a side struggling for results, he's been the one trying to drag them through games quite a lot, which is impressive for a 22yo. He's got a bit of everything, tall and rangy, good engine, will tackle and press, can dribble past a man, and can see a pass. But he can be careless in the wrong areas. he's always had this in his game. It is getting better each season, and this year he's been helped by having an experienced pure DM in there next to him this year. He also gets a bit of a nosebleed in forward areas.

I guess the player he would be in the mould of maybe would be Dacoure.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Seen a lot of this kid. I've said this before, but he's got a big heart. By that I mean he never hides in games, no matter that he's been playing for a side struggling for results, he's been the one trying to drag them through games quite a lot, which is impressive for a 22yo. He's got a bit of everything, tall and rangy, good engine, will tackle and press, can dribble past a man, and can see a pass. But he can be careless in the wrong areas. he's always had this in his game. It is getting better each season, and this year he's been helped by having an experienced pure DM in there next to him this year. He also gets a bit of a nosebleed in forward areas.

I guess the player he would be in the mould of maybe would be Dacoure.

He seems to have the right kind of physical attributes to do well in the English game then. With only a year left on his contract and a slow progression into being a better player I wonder where he'll end up.

A lot of noise about Soumare but not a lot about Sangare, pretty interesting to see.

 

[bus-conductor]

We need Ndombele back because he offers tremendous press-resistance and verticality from deep. You don't like hoofball. I don't like hoofball. I also don't like laboured build-up play, which we get an abundance of from Winks. Just because Tony Gale keeps saying he moves it quickly doesn't mean it is so.

You are way too fucking harsh on Winks. He's never going to be spunkbread, and if we get a proper footballing 6, he's going to be no more than a rotational player, but he's nowhere near as laboured or inept as you are saying. He wouldn't be up there in those metrics, there's some decent players behind him in that list. He shouldn't be playing as a 6/4, it's stretching him way beyond his limitations, if we just used him as an 8 in a CM3 he'd be much closer to his natural game. We've seen in recent games him picking out some really good passes, like the one that put Kane through (but was then flagged offside). He's not good enough to be a regular in a top 4 team, but he's good enough to be a free, club trained, low wage squad player, who we'll eventually get a good few quid for.

 

[VoiceOfThePoshSeats]

Ibrahim Sangare makes the list. Plays for a struggling Toulouse at the moment but his clips look promising. Contract expires 2021:

Ibrahim Sangaré - Player profile 22/23

Ibrahim Sangaré, 25, from Cote d'Ivoire ➤ PSV Eindhoven, since 2020 ➤ Defensive Midfield ➤ Market value: €35.00m ➤ * Dec 2, 1997 in Abidjan, Cote d'Ivoire

www.transfermarkt.com

well that list is bollocks cos winks is shocking going forward

 

[bus-conductor]

He seems to have the right kind of physical attributes to do well in the English game then. With only a year left on his contract and a slow progression into being a better player I wonder where he'll end up.

A lot of noise about Soumare but not a lot about Sangare, pretty interesting to see.

The thing I like about him, is that even when he makes mistakes, he doesn't hide, he keeps playing. Also, it's not like he's Dier/Sissoko and is making mistakes attempting the fucking easy all the time or just constantly bunting the ball back from where it’s come from, the mistakes invariably happen because he's actually trying to play. He rarely takes on people for the sake of it, once he's dribbled past someone he'll always look for a pass. But he does give the ball away a little too much still to be a top level CM.

I can see his next move being a next level up Ligue 1 side or mid table Spanish team.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

We need Ndombele back because he offers tremendous press-resistance and verticality from deep. You don't like hoofball. I don't like hoofball. I also don't like laboured build-up play, which we get an abundance of from Winks. Just because Tony Gale keeps saying he moves it quickly doesn't mean it is so.

I know exactly what Ndombele gives us, I love him for it. I'm also acutely aware that without the ball (defensively) he's worse than Winks and I've issues with Winks without the ball too.

You've just seen the stats on just how effective Winks is at progressing the ball, I think saying that he doesn't do this or to even attempt to deny that he doesn't do this well is utter bollocks!

He's not a dribbler, so he's, therefore, less exciting than one that is. He always looking to play and move the ball with tempo, again it's abundantly clear that this is what he attempts to do, is he the best at doing it? Answer = No. Why? Because he's 23yrs old!!! Also, our forwards are like fucking lamp posts in many games, there's such little movement in front of him his options are sometimes limited.

Watch Jouringo at Chelsea, there is no discernible difference between the two, both have their issues off the ball and lose their position, don't track runners or make decisions in whether to block a passing lane, engage or standoff.

In fact, lets do some comparison:

Lets' also through into the mix one ow the Worlds best in Fernandinho, lets also no forget these are Snr pros 28yrs and 34yrs old respectfully.

I think, like many the issue is you don't like the role these players have within a team, sorry if I've got this wrong and I am making assumptions, I've taken a liberty by making broad-strokes as always wide-sweeping comments are made about midfield positions (so many Spurs fans openly questioning what Modric did, same was said of Dembele, "sideways, Sideways", "can't Shoot" offers us nothing etc. etc..) again not suggesting for a second that you said those things about those players.

This kid has loads to develop in, but he's miles ahead of anyone in that position for his age group do that specific role.

Ndombele is a completely different profile of player:

To have a different profile to Winks is a good thing, maybe a way could be found to get them to be effective together. Or maybe with Ndombele beings so young that he too has scope for developing his game without the ball which might also hold the key to our puzzle.

 

[VoiceOfThePoshSeats]

I know exactly what Ndombele gives us, I love him for it. I'm also acutely aware that without the ball (defensively) he's worse than Winks and I've issues with Winks without the ball too.

You've just seen the stats on just how effective Winks is at progressing the ball, I think saying that he doesn't do this or to even attempt to deny that he doesn't do this well is utter bollocks!

He's not a dribbler, so he's, therefore, less exciting than one that is. He always looking to play and move the ball with tempo, again it's abundantly clear that this is what he attempts to do, is he the best at doing it? Answer = No. Why? Because he's 23yrs old!!! Also, our forwards are like fucking lamp posts in many games, there's such little movement in front of him his options are sometimes limited.

Watch Jouringo at Chelsea, there is no discernible difference between the two, both have their issues off the ball and lose their position, don't track runners or make decisions in whether to block a passing lane, engage or standoff.

In fact, lets do some comparison:

Lets' also through into the mix one ow the Worlds best in Fernandinho, lets also no forget these are Snr pros 28yrs and 34yrs old respectfully.

I think, like many the issue is you don't like the role these players have within a team, sorry if I've got this wrong and I am making assumptions, I've taken a liberty by making broad-strokes as always wide-sweeping comments are made about midfield positions (so many Spurs fans openly questioning what Modric did, same was said of Dembele, "sideways, Sideways", "can't Shoot" offers us nothing etc. etc..) again not suggesting for a second that you said those things about those players.

This kid has loads to develop in, but he's miles ahead of anyone in that position for his age group do that specific role.

Ndombele is a completely different profile of player:

To have a different profile to Winks is a good thing, maybe a way could be found to get them to be effective together. Or maybe with Ndombele beings so young that he too has scope for developing his game without the ball which might also hold the key to our puzzle.

I cant be arse to read all that but ndombele is shocking without the ball.

Winks aint good going forward and lacks physicality to be a DM

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I cant be arse to read all that but ndombele is shocking without the ball.

Winks aint good going forward and lacks physicality to be a DM

Sorry mate, I can't be arsed to read what you put.

 

[Airfixx]

well that list is bollocks cos winks is shocking going forward

The 'list' shows players "progressing the ball in central midfield", not how good they are in the attacking third.

 

[VoiceOfThePoshSeats]

The 'list' shows players "progressing the ball in central midfield", not how good they are in the attacking third.

and what the hell is progressing the ball?

 

[Airfixx]

and what the hell is progressing the ball?

Use your imagination... I think you'll get there.

 

[VoiceOfThePoshSeats]

Use your imagination... I think you'll get there.

define it?

my eyes tell me winks isnt good enough

 

[Airfixx]

define it?

Progressing the ball forward?

....Really? ...You can't work that out?

Dribbles, passes..... Getting the ball/team up the pitch.

How much? That's what the damn graphs depict....

my eyes tell me winks isnt good enough

Well if you're judging a player whos's been played out of position as our deepest midfielder (as an ill fitting DM) for the last year or so on the basis of how good they look in attack then it's no suprise really is it.....?

 

[Mariner]

 

[ArcspacE]

But all he does is pass sideways, right?

Mostly yes it is - your stats are bullshit as usual

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

You've just seen the stats on just how effective Winks is at progressing the ball, I think saying that he doesn't do this or to even attempt to deny that he doesn't do this well is utter bollocks!

I like stats. I also like context. He attempts to do it, yes. But he usually chooses a safe option. If we have any computer whizzes on this forum, I urge them to make a video of Winks when he receives the ball and what he does with it next in virtually any game.

He's not a dribbler, so he's, therefore, less exciting than one that is. He always looking to play and move the ball with tempo, again it's abundantly clear that this is what he attempts to do, is he the best at doing it? Answer = No. Why? Because he's 23yrs old!!! Also, our forwards are like fucking lamp posts in many games, there's such little movement in front of him his options are sometimes limited.

So what we have is a guy who is 24 next month who is afraid to show for the ball under pressure and who waits until he receives it to get his head up. He is a tempo-killer, generally speaking. The easiest way to tell this is by how many touches he takes before playing a pass. So indecisive and tentative. Exuding no authority. I have had an issue with the movement of our attacking players for many years, but they are more likely to look like lampposts when our build-up play is slow-which it is. It's not his age that is the issue. It's his skill set.

 

[ArcspacE]

Ndombele is worse than Winks without the ball.

Not sure if serious - Winks is our worst CM defensively

 

[kingdawson]

No. But he doesn't want to receive the ball under pressure. And he takes too many touches. And he puts his team-mates under pressure by refusing to open his body up and pass forward on a regular basis. Did you see how he spent so much time sitting in between the Belgians against Norwich? Have you got a theory for that?

Eh? You're talking about Winks?

 

[ArcspacE]

I like stats. I also like context. He attempts to do it, yes. But he usually chooses a safe option. If we have any computer whizzes on this forum, I urge them to make a video of Winks when he receives the ball and what he does with it next in virtually any game.


So what we have is a guy who is 24 next month who is afraid to show for the ball under pressure and who waits until he receives it to get his head up. He is a tempo-killer, generally speaking. The easiest way to tell this is by how many touches he takes before playing a pass. So indecisive and tentative. Exuding no authority. I have had an issue with the movement of our attacking players for many years, but they are more likely to look like lampposts when our build-up play is slow-which it is. It's not his age that is the issue. It's his skill set.

He kills most of our counters by receiving the ball, spinnig around 3 times then playing it safely back to Verts

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

He kills most of our counters by receiving the ball, spinnig around 3 times then playing it safely back to Verts

Without going as far as to say that, the frequency with which he abdicates creative responsibility by passing it to a central defender or a full-back is what gets on my nerves. "Here-I am not able to kick the ball 40 yards. See what you can do with it."