Liverpoo v Tottenham Hotspur - Premier League - 31.03.19.

[todd1882]

Ahead of the curve? If I posted on this board today that Messi is shite, I could claim that I was 'ahead of the curve' some years later?

Believe what you must. Yes, I could predict we will all die as some point but that would be extending my point to the ridiculous right? His post said 1-2 years ago. That is surely the same timeframe and is thus not absurd to think there were not signs. Perhaps you are not as observant as you think you are and worsted is.

As I have pointed out my public call for the conversation to begin was at the very beginning of last season. didn't we open at Wembley with Chelsea? but my private frustrations were aired via PM. Surely you can imagine I didn't make a knee-jerk decision about our captain because of 1 game vs Chelsea.

Bollocks

And unconsidered responses like this is what actually shuts down debate and conversation instead of actually fostering thought and discussion. Perhaps if you'd listened back then and considered his points you would have been ahead of the curve as well instead of being a laggard with the drooling masses.

 

[SpurFromOz]

Taken a while to calm down after that gut wrenching loss.
Agree with many fellow posters, yes Sissoko should have at least hit the target, maybe Christian take one touch more, then put it in the back of the net, and off course Hugo was poor.

What worried me today even more so than individual blunders, was again the difference between our 1st half and 2nd.

Its day and night. Similar to our loss to Manure, when De Gea saved their butts in the 2nd half. Yet, until Pool scored, we looked nervy, conservative and couldnt keep possession. It took us to go 1 nil down, for the lads to aim up, and in the 2nd half we looked like the team most likely.

Happened in more games than i can recall. Needs to be addressed.

Onwards to our new home. #COYS.

 

[Deuce]

It's too bad we couldn't even get a shot on target at the end when we were dominating. Alisson looked nervy as hell.

 

[ThePreacher]

This is archaic thinking. With 3 points for a win it’s about points dropped, period. 32 points dropped. Doesn’t matter of its 10 losses and 1 draw or 6 losses and 7 draws - it’s all the same in the big picture.

Only matters when it’s against someone competing for a top 4 spot, which isn’t Liverpool.

Winning and drawing games does more for moral than losing.

Losing a third of your games will never get you to the promised land.

Ever.

 

[ThePreacher]

Selling Dembele will cost us more financially than what Levy made on the transfer.

Such a stupid, pointless sale of a player that kept us ticking over between midfield and attack, and to not have a replacement is quite stupefying in the extreme at any level let alone Premier League.

 

[worsted]

Match - Chelsea v. Tottenham Hotspur 01/04/2018 @ 16:00 GMT

"What a win today but we seriously need to be looking at a replacement for Lloris in the summer."
1st April 2018.

Sometimes people have to admit, I'm a genius.

 

[todd1882]

Match - Chelsea v. Tottenham Hotspur 01/04/2018 @ 16:00 GMT

"What a win today but we seriously need to be looking at a replacement for Lloris in the summer."
1st April 2018.

Sometimes people have to admit, I'm a genius.

Well done but that was only 1 year ago. I thought it was earlier than this. Now SpiderSpurs has no issue with your point. He was just slow on the uptake.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Nah mate.

"5 years.... "

That's bollocks.... We've been lauding Vic, Dier and Dembele (with Winks & Dele considered the future) for much of Poch's reign....

Now cos it suits your agenda CM's been neglected for 5 years?

Like i said before: Horseshit.

You may have been lauding. But I have been crying for CM replacements for years. I am relatively new to TFC, but my years on SC would show you that I have been clamoring for CM depth and quality for years.

 

[Cravenspurs]

Yeah, and now we get to enjoy the rest of his game that was never really up to snuff. I get your point, and it is a good one, but it also shows that many, if not most, overrated him in the first place because of his stats. I have always appreciated his production but never rated his whole game and worry going forward if our intention is to make/play him as a proper MFer as his game and awareness has not improved as I had hoped.

I think he whoLe game is rather brilliant and understated. If we get a full, healthy off season of Dele we will have more of his goals and creative spark back.

 

[todd1882]

I think he whoLe game is rather brilliant and understated.

I get an "acquired taste" or an 'if you knew you'd know' kinda vibe here. I find his whole game slow and lacking in basic technical ability. Many of his best moments were due to him not being able to pull the basic move that was available earlier. that's speaking about his work WITH the ball. Yes, he does find space without it very well. But at this juncture that could be attributed to his 'talent' and me not seeing the move ahead. I guess time will tell on that. but I like my chances (not that I want him to fail, jsut a figure of speech) on this.

If we get a full, healthy off season of Dele we will have more of his goals and creative spark back.

I don't think so. As you pointed out his goals came from being positioned high up. He lacks the game to get there when we aren't dominating and he can't create for himself because he can neither dribble nor shoot. So I don't foresee an uptick in this production unless he improves his game.

An analogy. Tiger Woods was the top golfer in the world in june 1997. What did he do later that year? He tore down his game and rebuilt the swing that had taken him to the top. What did we get later? Literally the best professional golf that has ever been played after the 18 months of him duffing it around.

Another - Steph Curry. Doubted his whole career because he was small and was wanted by none o the big schools even though he was lethal. He was not quick enough and too small for the #2 yet didn't have a handle good enough for PG. What did he do? Yup, improved him game, can now play D and now he has mad handle and passing with a couple rings and MVP trophy.

Footballers are stupid and they don't get better after they reach success and acclaim. Rare ones do. Our Harry seems to add to his game every year. Maybe it is a byproduct of the game in that you can hide a little bit more and have things papered over with goal stats but in golf and BB you will be found out quickly.

My point? Dele had quick success yet his game has not expanded nor improved whatsoever. Dier too. Tripps too. footballers don't seem to want to improve their skillset to make themselves more dangerous and well rounded players. And don't revise history here as Dele was dogshit last year. He was absolute turd.

This reminds me of the Hugo convo from jjust earlier and people taking time to acknowledge what is actually in front of them. When all you folks finally admit he is not remotely the WC player that folks made him out to be and are hating him and yelling obscenities in his general direction and calling for him to be sat down we will be right here where worsted and SpiderSpurs are right now about Hugo.

And CS I'm not focusing all this on you. I respect your viewpoints and appreciate your contributions both here and at SC...

 

[sammyspurs]

Dembele played 53% of league minutes in 17/18 (based on 3 min of injury time per game)

And about 50% of them were decent - after he'd got up to speed after lay-offs or poor form and before fatigue had kicked in again.

58% in 16/17.

It was a similar story almost from the moment he joined us, poor form, chronic injury (hip etc).

15/16 64%
14/15 32%
13/14 51%
12/13 62%

You think Eriksen's shit, but Dembele was one of our best players in August? despite phoning it in for most of the last two years, whilst he was angling for his last big payday in the Chinese glue factory?

Dembele was one of our best players in the first half of the season and Eriksen is shit now yes

Do you think your graphs change my opinion

 

[MemphisWill]

Selling Dembele will cost us more financially than what Levy made on the transfer.

Such a stupid, pointless sale of a player that kept us ticking over between midfield and attack, and to not have a replacement is quite stupefying in the extreme at any level let alone Premier League.

Dembele wanted out, it was pretty clear that was the case. It was his chance to snag a big contract in China to round off his career, and with the Chinese season beginning it weren't certain to be there in the summer. As much as Moussa had done and meant for the club, he deserved to exit how and when he wanted. I think more of Levy for sanctioning Moussa's desires than if he'd stubbornly forced him to stay just so he could play a few more matches that may or may not have made a difference.

 

[sammyspurs]

You're embarrassing yourself further and still trying to throw me off the scent. Your statement was


which is not the same at 'most people wanted to strengthen the squad last summer'. And I don't agree with you. I make it a habit of not agreeing with foolish things and second guessing anything that is defended by foolish people. It's just SOP nothing to be offended by.


We know this because if you were arguing from my point of view, and on this matter it coincides with many in this thread, you would be right. And that is we should have addressed the MF in the summer.


Again, how many games in a season. It 'proves' nothing and perhaps you need to get acquainted with the definition of 'proves' as well. That is unless you are suggesting the Levy and Poch sat down and planned no transfers as a way to be 3rd(?) at Christmas and who gives a shit in May.

Poch was happy to keep the squad together in the summer
The decision not to sign was vindicated by our position by time the January window came.

That was the time we should have strengthened

 

[sammyspurs]

That the same van dijk that is worse than all 3 of our center backs according to you?

And?

He was still signed in January so it’s not impossible to sign in January is it

What’s my view of him got to with when he was signed?

 

[sammyspurs]

What does our current position prove?

What does 1 point from 15 in March prove?

Do you honestly believe this drivel that the squad was strong enough:

a) last summer
b) at Christmas after Dembele went
c) now with our string of injuries

Clearly you are right and the rest of the world is wrong?

This was our bench today:
Son
Wanyama
Llorente
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Davies
Skipp

Is this indicative of a strong squad?

This was Liverpool's bench
Fabinho
Lovren
Keita
Lallana
Mignolet
Shaqiri
Origi

All proves the January window was a failure

 

[sammyspurs]

Do you read the shite you post? Janssen? fucking Janssen!


Because he (reportedly) came to the conclusion he couldn't physically deal witht he PL anymore and was looking for a last payday. funny because that would mean Dembele thought he would get injured and thought he should be moved on, in fact did get injured, but yet you are still defending the opposite position. I didn't want to see him go either but knew that another player needed to come into the club to take the minutes.


Funny but why did I sense you wouldn't take the plain-spoken wisdom in there. It's a wonder.


My, and many others judging by this thread, opinion was that we need MF reinforcement. You disagreed. the intervening evidence suggest my, and many others, opinion was indeed found to be right. No, our opinion was not 'fact' it was opinion. Was it correct? yes, yes it was.


Many do it all the time. Some people utilize this tactic to illustrate to foolish people that the logic they have employed to formulate a position is in fact flawed when challenged or extended. They have a name for this but it escapes me? Can you come up with it?

But don't worry, it doesn't escape me that you missed the point of the anecdote. Your tortured process to call me an asshole is only more tragic. Do better Sammy.

You’re not saying anything

My view is we should have acted in january

You’re view is we should have acted last summer......but January was fine

Carry on with that if you think it’s logical.

 

[sammyspurs]

Well no not really. If we didn't sign anyone in the summer, why would we in January. There's nothing we knew in January that we didn't know in the summer. Our league position in Jan shouldn't really affect us. However good it looked it's a long season. Vdv is world class. You may be the only one that thinks otherwise. I don't see us spending 80m on one player!

Kane was injured in January and we had 38 separate injuries and sold Dembele.

That wasn’t the case in August.
You do realise that is an actual fact don’t you?

 

[sammyspurs]

Yes you're right, that's how society works. Media and public relations are not a part of it at all. What we read, hear or see in the media is always 100% the truth. Lol

Direct quotes from reliable sources are usually true.
Better than making stuff up.....do you believe direct quotes in the Guardian from Theresa May? Or you think it’s fabricated?

 

[sammyspurs]

The manager is not who I am addressing. I am addressing you. Nice try at deflection but I am like a hungry dog on a bone, and equally tenacious in debate...and good at it.

Wanting someone in January, while admirable and self-serving of your defense of not wanting someone in the summer, is not the point being argued. The point being argued is we needed reinforcement in the summer and you said we didn't and have foolishly stuck by defending that in the face of overwhelming contradictory evidence.

Poch's public stance gives us no insight into the behind-the-scenes work and my opinion of that has no bearing on the point being argued here, which, if we could avoid any further lame attempts at deflection, I hope we could get back to.

And my point is that we needed to sign in January
Not sure why you think we didn’t.

A whole host of people saying we needed to sign in the summer but don’t think the January window was a problem.
But now, in March, the summer window was the problem.......but we still shouldn’t have acted in January.

That was a good window

Christ

 

[todd1882]

Dembele was one of our best players in the first half of the season

He may have been that but apparently he wasn't one of the most frequent.

Do you think your graphs change my opinion

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. And sir you are confident you are right.

And my point is that we needed to sign in January

And the more reasonable and overriding consensus is that we needed MF reinforements in the summer...or perhaps 2 summers ago, maybe

Not sure why you think we didn’t

So now you are putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said this, I'll wait. I said it was not the point being argued nor the reason you are being ridiculed and thought a fool. but it is the point that you think is going to save you a bit of dignity so you are holding on for dear life.

Back again from your deflections. The point is you insist we didn't need MF recruitment. Tell me again when Dembele got injured (hint: we had him for all of about 7 weeks with his two, very predictable injuries)? Oh, and was he healthy in Jan for the transfer? Sure looks like it was always meant to be which coincides with ITK. Therefore your defense holds even less water.