tottenham hotspur fc: "daring to achieve"

[ZoC]

"to dare is to do". :redcard:

don't want to come across as an old-fashioned, pedantic linguistic cunt but if i do i don't give a shit anyway.

the original spurs battle cry, in latin, is "audere est facere". now "facere" is the root word for "faire" in french, which we all know from our o level french is translatable as "to do/to make". this demonstrates the word "facere" is imbued with a far deeper and noble meaning than simply the one-dimensional "to do".... ie. do the dishes or do the shopping.... "facere" in this context is more properly translatable as "to achieve". ie, simply the act of daring is an achievement in itself.

"to dare is to do" is such a poncy way to translate "audere est facere". the cunt who did it for shitty marketing purposes on the basis that fans are too ignorant to appreciate latin should be shot.

i'm willing to do anyone who dares to disagree.

a far more appropriate translation of the orginal battle cry - something the fighting cock has managed to encapsulate in just a few short months is this:

DARING TO ACHIEVE

 

[spooky]

<insert applause here>

 

[frontwheel]

I don't get it.

Regards, Noel

 

[ZoC]

I don't get it.

Regards, Noel

it's a demonstration of how the money people running our football club can't always be trusted to be the custodians of our true identity and traditions.

 

[linnet_spur]

I feel "we're going to fuck your shit up" would be a much better slogan anyway.

 

[villainousT]

I feel "we're going to fuck your shit up" would be a much better slogan anyway.

Latin translation: Ut tempus mauris in tua sumus

so google says anyway

 

[linnet_spur]

I feel "we're going to fuck your shit up" would be a much better slogan anyway.

Latin translation: Ut tempus mauris in tua sumus

so google says anyway

Has a good ring to it

 

[SanDiegoYiddo]

I feel "we're going to fuck your shit up" would be a much better slogan anyway.

Latin translation: Ut tempus mauris in tua sumus

so google says anyway

I'm getting that shit tatted on my throat.

 

[Flav]

Front page

*ZoC is tweaking this and removing language etc before it gets published*

 

[ZoC]

Front page

*ZoC is tweaking this and removing language etc before it gets published*

yes. like a cunt, i'm translating it from the original latin...

 

[NO1JIB]

i think 'to dare is to do' is fine, as long as the club attempts to win things, by playing football according to bill nick and danny blanchflowers philosophy, then im quite happy. just by daring, just by having a go, we have achieved what spurs are all about, if we fail, it will still be glorious because of the way we went about it. we dont 'dare to achieve' we've achieved just by daring anyway.





or am i a cunt ?

 

[ZoC]

i think 'to dare is to do' is fine, as long as the club attempts to win things, by playing football according to bill nick and danny blanchflowers philosophy, then im quite happy. just by daring, just by having a go, we have achieved what spurs are all about, if we fail, it will still be glorious because of the way we went about it. we dont 'dare to achieve' we've achieved just by daring anyway.





or am i a cunt ?

no. ur not a cunt. it's a bloody good point which i did think about...

just the act of being daring is an achievement....

but i think "daring to achieve" still covers this in a way that "to dare is to do" doesn't quite.

"to dare is to do" sounds too much like "do-be-do-be-do"... like wot frank sinatra might sing if he couldn't be bothered with the proper lyrics.

"daring to achieve" also suggests brazenness; and (to paraphrase frank) doing it our way.

however, i'm willing to look at other alternatives. like:

"daring is achieving"...

 

[ZoC]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlF1hKkTtm4[/youtube]

frank sinatra croons the spurs motto at 2.28...

 

[S.L.R]

(Disclaimer: I know FA about Latin, linguistics, camels, or anything else)

Great thread Zoc even though I do disagree slightly.

My thoughts when I hear Daring to Achieve (rightly or wrongly) are

a: it sounds a bit self-congratulatory and pompous
b: that it sounds more like it defines us mainly on achieving rather than daring, which I think is the wrong way round, since our daring style of play is a feature through our history more than winning is

Whereas To Dare is To Do sounds more like it's celebrating our commitment to the Blancheflower mantra, saying "we want to win, but we want to win the right way. We applaud courage and attacking football."

 

[ZoC]

(Disclaimer: I know FA about Latin, linguistics, camels, or anything else)

Great thread Zoc even though I do disagree slightly.

My thoughts when I hear Daring to Achieve (rightly or wrongly) are

a: it sounds a bit self-congratulatory and pompous
b: that it sounds more like it defines us mainly on achieving rather than daring, which I think is the wrong way round, since our daring style of play is a feature through our history more than winning is

Whereas To Dare is To Do sounds more like it's celebrating our commitment to the Blancheflower mantra, saying "we want to win, but we want to win the right way. We applaud courage and attacking football."

mate. i take ur points which are well articulated. it's great to be able to debate these nuances of language and subtle shades of meaning in such a positive spirit.

i think ur right with ur point 'a'. we don't want to come across as over-self-congratulatory. i concede that "daring to achieve" may be interpreted in that way (although equally, it could be argued that it's time spurs were a touch more aspirational).

my problem with the translation "to dare is to do" is twofold:

1. the inadequacy of "to do" to encapsulate wot "being daring" can result in - and do justice to the original intention of the multi-faceted latin word "facere" (and remember, in the original latin, "audere" actually rhymes with "facere" imbuing the latter with even more gravitas);

2. the use of two infinitives which, in english, requires the introduction of the particle "to" twice. this clumsy repeating "to" results in the similar-sounding and light-weight piece de resistance "do" getting lost (hence my reference to sinatra's do-be-do-be-do).

i've presented an alternative:

"daring is achieving"

 

[frontwheel]

I always thought it meant "shoot, you cunt!"

 

[ZoC]

phonetically speaking, it could approximate to... "oh dear it's fucked".

 

[S.L.R]

Re: tottenham hotspur fc: "daring to achieve"

Hmm, you've sort of got me there on two points, especially the second as I really can't argue with that. Daring is Achieving is good, I like that, the best of both sides.

My backup option will definitely be shoot, you cunt.

 

[ZoC]

Re: tottenham hotspur fc:

Hmm, you've sort of got me there on two points, especially the second as I really can't argue with that. Daring is Achieving is good, I like that, the best of both sides.

My backup option will definitely be shoot, you cunt.

cheers. top geezer.

 

[HyNdZee]

To do, or not to do... that is the question.