Toro Rosso Leipzig vs Tottenham Hotspur (10/3/20) (20:00 ko)

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Yeah fuck it! lets sack another manager! that will solve all our problems!

fuck me the state of some of you....

Lets not criticize any of these spineless players who have pissed away their best years and are now stealing a living.
Let's blow smoke up Ndombele's ass because he can do a silky turn, cunts sat at home polishing off his 3rd grand mac and working out if he is going to buy another ferrari this week.

Apart from Lo Celso who is the only shining light in this entire dismal season, Kane & Son there is an argument to get rid of every single one of the rest of them.

fuck all to do with the manager he has nothing to work with whatsoever, no heart, no guts, no footballing brains and a lack of overall quality.
Surely that is the managers job to install some fight and passion. From what it looked on the sideline he didn’t give a fick, no subs at half time unlike Burnley game and then no subs till 80th minute. Surely he could have tried something although his hands were tied as he couldn’t really bring on young parrot and ndombele after throwing them under the bus !! The guy is a class a cunt see his post match interview he was smiling as shit and he still had the nerve to dog out nbombele!!
 
Its not scouts that are the issue. It's the club.

Modern day scouting at that level so stats based first and foremost so the club would know these players exist.

For whatever reason though we have stopped investing in that way.

We haven't.... We're just shit at it.

Dav
Foyth
Sess
Jansen
Gedson
Clarke
Bergwijn 22
Ndombele 22 (when signed)
GLC 23
 
And we should have spunked the 70m on him last summer as many people were asking?

Decent, but c'mon. I thought RBL made him look good, not vice versa

"Was ist das telephonen fur Obergruppenführer Klopp?"
Huh? My point was about NOT needing big money/big name signings and that RBL exemplified this - a good coach and competent, committed players. It was about scouting and getting players while they are on the way up and looking to prove something ie BEFORE they become big names and become self-satisfied.

The mention of Werner was because he would have been the only name most recognized before even playing them. And I'm on record as not being a fan of his and wouldn't drop 50 on him let alone 70. He's got his qualities but he's not the kind of player I like...especially at ST. I'd take Schick before I'd take Werner.

And he will do very well in a Klopp system. Wonder if FSG will cash in on Salah and replace him with Werner.
 
yeah I'm laying into him, because our squad is thread bare and we needed our 65 million pound signing playing, meanwhilehe couldn't give a toss and has let his physique go the way of a darts player, so much so that he had less sprints than Hugo at the weekend....

So damn right I'm going to lay into him, we needed him and he let us down as badly as anyone on the pitch tonight
We needed him well Jose didn’t bring him on and could really without losing face he would look a right twat after slagging him off at the weekend. Was he really that bad on Saturday compared to the rest? Could he have helped today to hold the ball up and pass through the lines? Defo! But Jose couldn’t even give him a few minutes or anyone else tbh. His now got the perfect excuse if we lose on Sunday! His a right ****.
 
Just goes to show you it's not about splashing the cash but finding the right talent.


Players like haaland nkunku werner etc weren't bought for big $$. This is where scouts need to do their job.
Its not scouts that are the issue. It's the club.

Modern day scouting at that level so stats based first and foremost so the club would know these players exist.

For whatever reason though we have stopped investing in that way.
We haven't.... We're just shit at it.

Dav
Foyth
Sess
Jansen
Gedson
Clarke
Bergwijn 22
Ndombele 22 (when signed)
GLC 23


It's not just about scouting per se, signings per se, or budget per se.

Those clubs, RBL and Dortmund for example - they have DOF's that oversee a philosophy that runs through everything they do, so they recruit - Head Coach and players - to fit that philosophy - everything they do from the head coach, the academy coaching, to the recruitment, to the branding - is in harmony.

the Head Coaches aren't alway identical in the way they do things, but if the y don't fit the core philosophy or values of the brand/indentity then they won't even be considered, of course if they can't get the best out of the squad that's been assembled with the philosophy in mind - they move them on for someone who does - they don't chop and change the whole philosophy of the club for one manager to the next, which means changing your recruitment models and how everyone os coached, including academy to suit the new manager.

We need to get our fucking shit together. We need a DOF desperately, Levy needs to do his job, which he generally does extremely well, of running the business, but we need someone to oversee the implementation of a core philosophy and see that everything we do is in line with that philosophy. It needs to be - much like the likes of Dortmund and RBL - progressive, aggressive - something fans/punters in the stadium and globally can identify and buy into, even when it's not always successful, we need to be able to see "a plan" have an identity that drives us forward.

How much money you spend is less important than how cleverly you spend it and the coaching it gets. Look at RBL, their squad probably cost about a tenth of ours, but they've outplayed us. Ajax did the same last year with another cheaply assembled squad.
 
This game feels like the end of an era. The 5-3 at the Lane against Chelsea in 2015 was the start of the era...when we started looking like a team that could compete with Europe's best. And we did for over five years. Hard to see it happening again any time soon.
 
I think this is an almost perfect storm of collective cluster fuckery. First major mistake Levy makes is giving Pochettino his wish to have more control of recruitment, the Head of Recruitment goes, there's no DOF to oversee the recruitment and contract mess or sales needed that's unfolding, Levy is busy building a stadium, Poch is a manager so he's not worrying about contracts (he's actively trying to talk the likes of Eriksen and Alderweireld into staying and telling Levy he thinks he can get Eriksen to sign) he's just wanting new players.

But I think the rhetoric we get at the end of the summer of none about it being "more important we kept the squad together" was because when he said he wanted new players, Levy said if you want new blood we have to balance the books and you're going to have sell a couple of the more valuable assets and Poch didn't want to do that either.

With no DOF, who was going tom tell Poch that the rebuild needed to start before the summer of none, it needed to start when he was coming 2nd in 16/17, Dembele never played more than 58% of a season in his whole time, but Poch built his team on him. Was that Levy's fault ? I'm pretty sure Levy would have cashed in on Eriksen 2 years out, again Poch said he thought he could be persuaded to sign a new deal. And we ended up with a bloated non HG squad that hadn't been smartly recruited - unlike the squad assembled before Pich got here - so was hard to move on.

I don't blame Poch for all of it, but some of it, he played the power game while his stock was high, and it ended up backfiring on him. I don't blame Levy for all it, but some of it, he was foolish to abandon a structure which had been a good model and seen us build a good young squad that would be polished extremely well by Poch. And it backfired on him.

I am not blaming Poch for wanting to take more control, ultimately Levy gave in, at a crucial time when he was going to be massively distracted with the stadium, and now he's now got his uber stadium with a team in decline that isn't going to be delivering CL revenues.
Not going over this with you BC. Your post is filled with the same conjecture, opinion, and agenda it always has been on this topic. Sure, it's interspersed with good stuff about the DOF and whatever but it's still not coming from a place of complete objectivity. We have DL's own words from the THST meeting where he say nothing has changed and gave us the structure. And from back in the day the only thing that changed moving to Manager from Head Coach was a seat on the transfer committee where ultimately the final say is DANIEL LEVY - the man said so himself. So I'm gonna stay away from your interpretation. I'm able to derive one for myself based on the 'knowns' known. So let's let this lie and focus on the wonderful football we are seeing and leave the Poch recriminations (explicit, implicit, backhanded or otherwise) for others. We can agree that ultimately it was Poch's fault one way or another. The chubby bastard.

Now on to more exciting times. I'm just loving this Mou time. It's good stuff. Gotta love when a conventional wisdom plan comes together.
 
Just saw Paul Mitchell’s signings at Leipzig.

Werner 13 million.
Nkunku 12 million.
Upamecano and Konate 9 million combined.
Sabitzer and Forsberg 5 million.
Uh what? Mitchell isn't responsible for most of those even if he is perhaps the top recruiter in the world. He only joined them 2 years ago.

Signed players like Cunha, Konate, Nkunku though
 
It's not just about scouting per se, signings per se, or budget per se.

Those clubs, RBL and Dortmund for example - they have DOF's that oversee a philosophy that runs through everything they do, so they recruit - Head Coach and players - to fit that philosophy - everything they do from the head coach, the academy coaching, to the recruitment, to the branding - is in harmony.

the Head Coaches aren't alway identical in the way they do things, but if the y don't fit the core philosophy or values of the brand/indentity then they won't even be considered, of course if they can't get the best out of the squad that's been assembled with the philosophy in mind - they move them on for someone who does - they don't chop and change the whole philosophy of the club for one manager to the next, which means changing your recruitment models and how everyone os coached, including academy to suit the new manager.

We need to get our fucking shit together. We need a DOF desperately, Levy needs to do his job, which he generally does extremely well, of running the business, but we need someone to oversee the implementation of a core philosophy and see that everything we do is in line with that philosophy. It needs to be - much like the likes of Dortmund and RBL - progressive, aggressive - something fans/punters in the stadium and globally can identify and buy into, even when it's not always successful, we need to be able to see "a plan" have an identity that drives us forward.

How much money you spend is less important than how cleverly you spend it and the coaching it gets. Look at RBL, their squad probably cost about a tenth of ours, but they've outplayed us. Ajax did the same last year with another cheaply assembled squad.
Now this is the shit I can get with.

edit: But to be clear, you are saying that we should get our shit together so we can spend less this summer and let Mou coach 'em up good to play that sexy soccerball stuff for which he is renown wiht the flowing passes, quick vertical strikes, and high pressing?
 
This game feels like the end of an era. The 5-3 at the Lane against Chelsea in 2015 was the start of the era...when we started looking like a team that could compete with Europe's best. And we did for over five years. Hard to see it happening again any time soon.
No need for the drama mate. What "era"?. It is universally agreed that its shit, but lets abide until next season. For me, there's simply no way we can compete atm with all the factors in play. Many people at fault, lots of finger pointing. Whatever.Between now and pre-season is just a dog fight.

Play with heart and see who the leaders are (and maybe more importantly who aren't)
 
Uh what? Mitchell isn't responsible for most of those even if he is perhaps the top recruiter in the world. He only joined them 2 years ago.

Signed players like Cunha, Konate, Nkunku though
Mukiele, Adams, Haidara as well no? And ultimately it all has been touched by Rangnick is one way or another in that organization.
 
Not going over this with you BC. Your post is filled with the same conjecture, opinion, and agenda it always has been on this topic. Sure, it's interspersed with good stuff about the DOF and whatever but it's still not coming from a place of complete objectivity. We have DL's own words from the THST meeting where he say nothing has changed and gave us the structure. And from back in the day the only thing that changed moving to Manager from Head Coach was a seat on the transfer committee where ultimately the final say is DANIEL LEVY - the man said so himself. So I'm gonna stay away from your interpretation. I'm able to derive one for myself based on the 'knowns' known. So let's let this lie and focus on the wonderful football we are seeing and leave the Poch recriminations (explicit, implicit, backhanded or otherwise) for others. We can agree that ultimately it was Poch's fault one way or another. The chubby bastard.

Now on to more exciting times. I'm just loving this Mou time. It's good stuff. Gotta love when a conventional wisdom plan comes together.


But won't the final say always be the man the has to sign the cheque?

I mean, I don't think Levy ever had the final say in terms of which footballer - if they were both the same age, price, type etc - do you? That would have been Pochettino, no?

The trouble is the known knowns are pretty scant, so we are all scrabbling around for explanations, and even after 15 VAR replays it's still a bit down to interpretation. I am prepared to concede that, and that some of my theory may not be water tight.
 
Huh? My point was about NOT needing big money/big name signings and that RBL exemplified this - a good coach and competent, committed players. It was about scouting and getting players while they are on the way up and looking to prove something ie BEFORE they become big names and become self-satisfied.

The mention of Werner was because he would have been the only name most recognized before even playing them. And I'm on record as not being a fan of his and wouldn't drop 50 on him let alone 70. He's got his qualities but he's not the kind of player I like...especially at ST. I'd take Schick before I'd take Werner.

And he will do very well in a Klopp system. Wonder if FSG will cash in on Salah and replace him with Werner.
Doubt it. I don't rate Werner above Salah from what I've seen. That said, they didn't do too bad out of the Coutinho deal (Ooh look at our net spend, aren't we great)
 
No need for the drama mate. What "era"?. It is universally agreed that its shit, but lets abide until next season. For me, there's simply no way we can compete atm with all the factors in play. Many people at fault, lots of finger pointing. Whatever.Between now and pre-season is just a dog fight.

Play with heart and see who the leaders are (and maybe more importantly who aren't)
I don't think he's being dramatic. Most people would say that the CL final already bookended that particular era (isn't it clear that he means the era of the team that Poch and Kane took to its peak?). He's being generous by extending it this long.
 
Now this is the shit I can get with.

edit: But to be clear, you are saying that we should get our shit together so we can spend less this summer and let Mou coach 'em up good to play that sexy soccerball stuff for which he is renown wiht the flowing passes, quick vertical strikes, and high pressing?
The what is largely irrelevant. We already have that in our history yes?

The "manager" is not the dictator of philosophy. This lives within the club. The manager simply implements the idea, but it is the idea that abides.

Genuinely thought that we were ahead of the game when Commolli came in but one bad apple shouldn't rot the barrel.
 
Now this is the shit I can get with.

edit: But to be clear, you are saying that we should get our shit together so we can spend less this summer and let Mou coach 'em up good to play that sexy soccerball stuff for which he is renown wiht the flowing passes, quick vertical strikes, and high pressing?

I think we should make Mou the head academy coach.
 
Back
Top Bottom