West Ham won the wc. Let's get it right.
They were the first. All my West ham mates tell me so.
Must be true.
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West Ham won the wc. Let's get it right.
They were the first. All my West ham mates tell me so.
Must be true.
More "that sort of fan" that doesn't have much of a clue about the club, it's history of the game in general and just latched onto the EPL not so long ago cos that's what 'everyone else' was doing; Spurs were decent at the having a team just seemed like the right thing to do.
Most of these fuckers became fans when either Redkanpp or Poch was here... It's no accident..... The 'next big thing' bandwagon is a typical one to jump on for a casual football viewer.
Backed that up this year by becoming the European Champions*
No club has ever done both AFIAK.... Not even Real Madrid.... And Man City will never sing that either.
I think people are confusing Top 5/6 with BIG 5/6
....yes, we're not in the TOP 5/6 (or 7) right now, but are still considered BIG 6 by many, which is partly to do with our laughing stock status: BIG club, but not a TOP club... but that's another issue!
Newcastle, Man City are in the TOP 6 right now...
But us and Everton were always part of the BIG 5...
The fact it's even a 'Big 5/6' now factors in Man City & Chelsea, who were never originally considered BIG 5, let alone Newcastle...
Maybe we need to redefine our status in football:
A Big Top club... Kinda suits our Circus Status recently!
Apart from that one I guess...
Nothing to do with age, all to do with his lack of knowledge.
Words are important here, he said - 'Tottenham have never won anything'.
You said - 'it certainly doesn’t feel like we win anything'
He sounded like a spammer, chav, gooner. You sound like a Spurs fan.
Why the heck does every reporter seem to want to be a David Ornstein or a Fabrizio Romano. I have seen so many of these reporters tour every football related podcast and spout the same transfer stories. Most of them seem to be very poorly sourced.
Probably the same reason tiktokkers post stupid shit and Instagram girls get naked.
People are desperate for attention on the internet.
I cannot imagine half these podcast have more than 20000 listens and I am being kind. Someone like Sami Mokbel then will speak on everyone that will have him.
The vast majority of these leeches - even those with a few column inches or a few minutes TV time to their name - are SO far off being actual journalists.......
Clicks / Subs = clout >>>>>>>> money / sponsorships
Here is a story about Thomas Partey. They talk about and show pictures of two players. They manage to have our club badge featured six times in the one photo. Good job!
Is this referring to you know who? If so pretty fucking tragic that on a football based website in this day and age they are having to write articles about rape.
A year since Player X was arrested for rape: Why is decision taking so long? What now?
An unnamed Premier League player was arrested for rape nearly a year ago. He's been bailed five times but not charged. What's going on?theathletic.com
A year since Player X was arrested for rape: Why is decision taking so long? What now?
The Athletic UK Staff
Jun 29, 2023
It is less than seven weeks until the new Premier League season begins. It could be the second season running in which Player X, accused of rape by three separate women, represents his club while investigations continue and his identity is shielded by law.
Player X has not been charged and Tuesday, July 4, marks a year since he was first arrested.
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But why is the whole process taking so long? What is the morally correct thing for the club to do in this situation? What is the legally sound decision?
These questions are becoming more pertinent with the cluster of rape and sexual assault allegations made against Premier League footballers in recent years. Six of the 20 clubs in the top flight have had to navigate similar terrain when one of their players has been questioned or charged in relation to alleged sexual offences.
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Player X, who represented his country at the World Cup in Qatar last year, was subject to further interviews four months ago after a third woman alleged he raped her in February 2022, but his bail has since been extended for a fifth time and is due to expire next month.
Whether that is extended again or the police and Crown Prosecution Service drop or press charges remains to be seen, but as everyone involved waits for that decision, The Athletic answers the key questions around this case, and others…
Why does it take so long for a decision to be made?
“The delays in this case don’t surprise me,” says Stephen Halloran, a specialist criminal defence lawyer at Lawtons Solicitors with more than 25 years of experience.
“I have cases where we are waiting on charging decisions (that are) two years old. There is a huge backlog and they are trying to give priority to certain case types.
“They are trying to fast-track sexual offence cases when they get to court but there is a huge resource issue and that’s not just because of Covid, there were delays before we hit that.
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The case of the unnamed footballer being investigated for child-sex offences
“Realistically, they are not going to clear this backlog for five years. Whether you are the complainant or the accused, these cases are hanging over you for a long time.”
Halloran explains how gathering all the witness statements can be time-consuming in such sensitive cases, as can the recorded interviews with the complainant, which are required in sexual offence cases.
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It is a special type of interview with trained officers who need to be sure their questions cannot be inferred as leading. This is the material they will aim to use as their evidence in chief if the case goes to court, so it has to be carefully handled to prevent the complainant from having to give evidence twice.
The police also investigate CCTV evidence and piece that together to create a timeline, while retrieving and sifting through mobile phone messages. This is why Halloran describes there being “in-built delays” in these investigations.
If they have sufficient evidence, they will ask the accused to attend an interview. Once they have concluded their investigation, they summarise all the evidence, including which parts may not help their case, and present it to the CPS.
“I usually tell clients it’s at least three to six months for the CPS to make a decision and it may be that the police need to go away and do extra work,” says Halloran.
To reach a decision to charge a case, the CPS will consider whether enough evidence exists against the suspect to provide a realistic prospect of conviction and the second is whether it is in the public interest to prosecute.
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“When considering the evidential test, each complaint is treated as separate, so one shouldn’t support the other, but that’s not to say the overall pattern of behaviour is not relevant,” explains Halloran.
“If they have offences which have similar characteristics, that would be something they reflect in their decision-making. It can be quite nuanced but what the CPS can’t be seen to do is to say, ‘There is no smoke without fire, if several people are saying it there must be something in it’.”
In terms of the public interest test, for serious offences (such as rape) it is nearly always met.
Why has Player X not been suspended?
Nick De Marco KC is a leading sports lawyer who has acted in relation to players charged with rape, both for clubs and individuals.
He recently represented a footballer who was accused of rape and explains the club will, in nearly all cases, conduct an interview with the player before deciding whether he should be suspended or not. He likens the setup to an employee disciplinary meeting rather than a cross-examination, but in his experience, the club will then communicate their conclusions before informing the player and his lawyer of their decision.
“Should it be taken out of the hands of clubs by the authorities and an automatic suspension ordered? I think that’s difficult,” says De Marco.
“There is a presumption of innocence in England, but I can also understand certain allegations may be so serious that a club has to take action to protect its reputation by not playing the player. So how do those two things square up as, if they do that, the player could sue the club.
“However, the club may decide they’d rather be sued and pay out a load of money rather than take the reputational risk of sticking by the player for him to be charged and found guilty.
“The easiest way out for a club is to continue to pay the player but just not play them. However, if you do that for a very long time they may run out of contract, or allow the player to leave under certain football rules, but in these sorts of cases the club may not mind.”
This is what happened to another Premier League player who, in July 2021, was put under investigation for alleged sexual activity with a girl under the age of 16. He was suspended on full pay and moved to a safe house as he waited to hear whether the allegations, which he denied, would result in charges being brought against him.
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He was bailed seven times over the course of the investigation and, after 637 days, he was finally informed that the CPS did not believe there was sufficient evidence to take the case to trial.
Safeguarding procedures can kick in with cases as serious as those and De Marco was involved in one recently in which a Premier League player was not allowed to train as he had to be isolated from everyone. It also meant he went unpaid for an extended period and there is the possibility he could sue for lost earnings if he is found not guilty of all charges.
Yet De Marco explains how clubs could begin to alter contracts to widen the scope for grossly negligent behaviour.
“Football contracts define gross misconduct quite restrictively,” he adds. “Maybe there has to be more flexibility.”
“For example, if a player is alleged to have raped someone after going to a party, having sex with multiple strangers and filming it, he may well be innocent until proven guilty on the rape, but the partying behaviour, if admitted, could be argued to be so negligent that it is capable of being gross misconduct itself.
“The club could say, ‘You acted in a way that risked undermining the club’s reputation, so we can sack you’. If not, there will always be a difficult balance.”
What is the conviction rate for those charged?
The numbers make for stark reading. The Victims’ Commissioner’s annual report for 2021-2022, written by Dame Vera Baird DBE KC, reads: “For victims, reporting rape is effectively a lottery and the odds are rarely in your favour.”
In the year to December 2021, there were 67,125 rape offences recorded, an all-time high. Despite that, the number of completed rape prosecutions had fallen from 5,190 in 2016-17 to just 2,409 in 2020-21 and the number of convictions almost halved from 2,689 to 1,409 in that time.
The conviction rate has remained static at 61.8 per cent this year and Dame Baird, who resigned from her role last year after accusing the government of downgrading victims’ interests, tells The Athletic: “Don’t muddle the number of convictions with the conviction rate — which is the percentage of cases charged that produce a conviction — because the CPS get a high conviction rate by taking only cases they are sure to win.”
The average time from first submission by the police to the CPS decision to charge stands at 172 days this year, up from 67 days in 2016-17. However, the CPS says there has been “a significant increase in referrals made to us by police and CPS charges, and shorter times between file submission and decision to charge”, with collaborative projects like Operation Soteria — involving police forces with academics and policy leads — helping to increase referrals to them. A spokesperson adds: “Since January 2021, adult rape-flagged referrals have increased by 83 per cent and the number of adult rape cases charged has increased by 86 per cent.
“While the number of people charged with rape-flagged offences continues to rise year-on-year, we are continuing our efforts to build on the changes we’ve made to secure justice for more victims.”
While the government tries to address the issue, one of the core problems in these cases, according to Baird, is the lack of evidence. “The cases are regarded as difficult to win by the CPS because it is one person’s word against the other,” she says. “But that means that although the police should try to find supporting evidence, there may not be any, so charging decisions should be quite quick.”
“A great deal of time is spent on investigating the woman. Almost always rape complainants are asked for their mobile phones and the contents are searched. She will be asked for medical notes from birth, school reports, any social services reports and notes from any therapist with whom she has had therapy for the impact of the rape, or any other therapy.
“These demands are, allegedly, in case there is anything relevant that can help in a case. However, there is no other kind of case in which this personal material is sought.
“They collect masses of stuff and sometimes find something totally irrelevant but which might affect her credibility. There is no perfect victim, but if they decide to go on with the case, they give the discreditable material to the defence who will cross-examine her on an irrelevant lie to her mother and shock her into giving weaker evidence by such an attack.”
What can football do?
“Unfortunately, our beautiful game has an ugly underside when it comes to violence against women,” says Andrea Simon, director of the EVAW campaign group, which wrote an open letter to the FA and Premier League last year calling on governing bodies to take action.
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“Players often have an extraordinary amount of power, influence and status, which enables them to perpetrate abuse with impunity, as the wealth they generate for clubs and the wider football industry is deemed more valuable than justice for survivors.
“We think above all there should be a consistent approach and have argued for the FA and Premier League to adopt sexual misconduct policies with teeth, with the power to impose everything from suspension without pay to lifetime bans.”
The FA confirmed it is due to contact EVAW through their FA Education team and says it ‘fully supports’ action taken by leagues and clubs who provide educational training programmes.
A Premier League spokesperson said: “The Premier League takes the protection of women and girls extremely seriously and is working with clubs and a number of groups and experts in this area to tackle misogyny and violence in football.
“The league is undertaking wider work to develop a Gender Equality Strategy, which will directly address these important issues with the aim of making football an enjoyable, safe and inclusive experience for everybody.”
De Marco also believes better education around consent is required for footballers, particularly at the top level.
“You have a combination of factors. Young men at their sexual prime, often sought after by young women. They have time on their hands and after training hard they may party hard, but they often have very limited education on how to behave properly in relation to women.
“That may lead to many encounters and the players feeling over-confident and over-able to take advantage due to the status they have. And sometimes consent can become compromised in those circumstances.
“It was true with pop stars in the past, too, and there is more the FA and clubs could do to educate players on consent, having respect for women and not putting themselves in compromising situations.”
What now? Can Player X go abroad? Can he go on tour? Can he be sold?
There are precedents for players being sold to other clubs while under investigation. In October 2021, Yves Bissouma was arrested and questioned about an allegation of sexual assault while at Brighton, which he denied.
The following summer, while still under investigation, Tottenham signed him for around £25million ($31.6m). Only weeks later it was confirmed the case against him would not be progressing to court.
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In the EFL, there was a rape allegation made against forward Beryly Lubala before he was exonerated in court in January 2021. He was suspended by Blackpool when he was charged but the investigation had started when he played for his previous club, Crawley Town.
According to Lubala in his interview with The Athletic last year, Blackpoolattempted to sack him as they argued he was duty-bound to inform them of this investigation. His lawyers successfully argued the onus lay with the selling club and his contract stood. In January this year, the court heard that Blackpool remained engaged in legal action against Crawley for the selling club’s alleged failure to disclose the claims. The Athletic now understands this matter has been settled.
But should Player X — or any footballer with serious allegations attached — be sold for millions of pounds before the investigation is concluded? And should they be allowed to be sold abroad?
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Beryly Lubala, the footballer accused and found not guilty of rape
“This would be shockingly close to intending to interfere with justice. If the player is sold and still on bail, the police should ask for his passport to be handed into them so that he can’t escape the jurisdiction,” says Baird.
If Player X continues to play at his current club this season, then there is the question of whether his bail conditions will allow him to travel to his club’s chosen destination for pre-season, but the CPS declined to confirm whether there were any restrictions in place.
If you have been affected by anything raised in this article, you can find guidance at rapecrisis.org.uk
(Lead picture designed by Sam Richardson using iStock)
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That article is also BS in as much as Biss was not still under investigation when we signed him.
Manchester United would have to finish 14th for a few seasons for that terminology to stick.
