Jan Vertonghen broke me

[CJJ]

At the end of the day most of Jans misery is caused by the club not listening to him about getting a left back last season. We ended up with a player previously only good enough to go on loan.

IMO Rose, Fryers and Naughton are OBVIOUSLY not top 4 quality. So why play them at all in the prem? It's wasting time and energy on players when Capoue and Vlad were fit under AVB. The only way I see it, is if we play Van Gaal style with 3 at the back until we get reinforcements at the back next summer.

I would rather see that and an extra DM on the pitch like Capoue or Vlad than have a flank that is wide open. And we need backup for Walker too.

The plan AVB had was to replace Assou-Ekotto once he'd been sold to Fenerbache (i think it was), but it collapsed and I imagine the pressure to play a young english LB who'd excelled at Sunderland, and the stipulation that we couldn't sign another LB unless BAE went meant that we flapped about and got neither. We flirted very heavily with the idea of Coentrao all summer, but too little too late I guess.

Jan isn't the manager and essentially has fuck all to do with transfer policy, mind.

 

[gibbs131]

Thats true everyone in the whole world could see we needed a left back apart from the spurs management team....agree Rose, Fryers and Naughton are championship quality at best..harsh but fair although naughton has never really been given a run at rightback just 1 or 2 games here and there but you wouldnt drop walker.

3 at the back could work but who would you trust to play left wingback?

IMO all of our most solid/dependable players are central. Van Gaal is famous for a style similar to the 3-3-3-1

Which can be either a REALLY attacking team or a really defensive one depending on who the 3's are in the middle and AM's. When I look at Capoue, Sandro and Paulhinio, I see people who can do a job as a DM but they can also play a bit. It's not like sticking 3 Zokoras and Freunds in there. I would drop wing play altogether.
REMEMBER: This is in desperation because of how Fryers etc have been...It's because like you said it was OBVIOUS we needed a quality left back and this is how I would play our quality:

---------------Ade------------
-Eriksen---Dembele--Erik-
-Capoue--Beast--Paulinho-
-Vertong--Kaboul--Walker-
-------------Lloris-------------

If all fit, that is how I would line it up. Soldado can be backup for Ade, Holtby for Eriksen, Bentaleb for all midfield positions etc. The high line would be history and we would have strength and power behind Lamela and Eriksen for cover, and a Moose along side them so we wont bounce off the parked bus.

Imagine that team attacking set pieces and corners from Eriksen. You lift the water carrying duties and Lamela and Eriksen and IMO you will see some intelligence in the final third. But more important, Lamela and Eriksen can FINISH.

 

[optimusgazza]

IMO all of our most solid/dependable players are central. Van Gaal is famous for the German style 3-3-3-1

Which can be either a REALLY attacking team or a really defensive one depending on who the 3's are in the middle and AM's. When I look at Capoue, Sandro and Paulhinio, I see people who can do a job as a DM but they can also play a bit. It's not like sticking 3 Zokoras and Freunds in there. I would drop wing play altogether.
REMEMBER: This is in desperation because of how Fryers etc have been...It's because like you said it was OBVIOUS we needed a quality left back and this is how I would play our quality:

---------------Ade------------
-Eriksen---Dembele--Erik-
-Capoue--Beast--Paulinho-
-Vertong--Kaboul--Walker-
-------------Lloris-------------

If all fit, that is how I would line it up. Soldado can be backup for Ade, Holtby for Eriksen, Bentaleb for all midfield positions etc. The high line would be history and we would have strength and power behind Lamela and Eriksen for cover, and a Moose along side them so we wont bounce off the parked bus.

Imagine that team attacking set pieces and corners from Eriksen. You lift the water carrying duties and Lamela and Eriksen and IMO you will see some intelligence in the final third. But more important, Lamela and Eriksen can FINISH.

that could actually work some nice flair in there and also some solid players who can win the ball. the only player i feel could let that down is Dembele dont know what it is about him but hes hit and miss id be inclined to playe erik there

 

[gibbs131]

that could actually work some nice flair in there and also some solid players who can win the ball. the only player i feel could let that down is Dembele dont know what it is about him but hes hit and miss id be inclined to playe erik there

He is there as a battering ram. IMO he has been beating 3 players in his own half too often. He should be beating people in the oppositions penalty area with Eriksen and Lamela flitting off him for a pass etc.

The parked bus has been a huge problem for us. Ade and the Moose can help in that respect. It also keeps the spine solid. You can swap Dembele and Paulinho but my gut tells me to keep the Brazilians together to form partnerships etc.

It can't be less solid than a high line and crossing to nobody. It's not a million miles away from Barcas style formations.

 

[optimusgazza]

He is there as a battering ram. IMO he has been beating 3 players in his own half too often. He should be beating people in the oppositions penalty area with Eriksen and Lamela flitting off him for a pass etc.

The parked bus has been a huge problem for us. Ade and the Moose can help in that respect. It also keeps the spine solid. You can swap Dembele and Paulinho but my gut tells me to keep the Brazilians together to form partnerships etc.

think thats my issue with him. He seems to beat 2 players then almost go back to try and beat them again he so bloody frustrating at times

 

[gibbs131]

The plan AVB had was to replace Assou-Ekotto once he'd been sold to Fenerbache (i think it was), but it collapsed and I imagine the pressure to play a young english LB who'd excelled at Sunderland, and the stipulation that we couldn't sign another LB unless BAE went meant that we flapped about and got neither. We flirted very heavily with the idea of Coentrao all summer, but too little too late I guess.

Jan isn't the manager and essentially has fuck all to do with transfer policy, mind.

So AVB failed in that respect. You forgot to add that AVB also okayed Benny to go on loan COMPOUNDING his failure to pressure the board to get a left back. Result = DENTED Morale and players like Naughton out of position.

And since Vert has been forced to play left against his wishes, it left us brittle in the center. I mean to fill that gap we lose our best central defender. So we had Capoue playing CB at one point, Sandro playing there vs City etc because he sold Caulker. Another AVB masterstroke. But lets all get on Verts back...Player of the season last year and most peoples pick for Captain is looking a shadow of his former self. He has zero continuity this season. Not with players to the front, to the left or to his right. No wonder we are a shambles.

 

[CJJ]

So AVB failed in that respect. You forgot to add that AVB also okayed Benny to go on loan COMPOUNDING his failure to pressure the board to get a left back. Result = DENTED Morale and players like Naughton out of position.

And since Vert has been forced to play left against his wishes, it left us brittle in the center. I mean to fill that gap we lose our best central defender. So we had Capoue playing CB at one point, Sandro playing there vs City etc because he sold Caulker. Another AVB masterstroke. But lets all get on Verts back...Player of the season last year and most peoples pick for Captain is looking a shadow of his former self. He has zero continuity this season. Not with players to the front, to the left or to his right. No wonder we are a shambles.

BAE had already caused issues and what we know is that he and Caulker were perhaps shipped out due to some sort of off-field issues.

Don't forget that Baldini was now responsible for transfers, so calm down with the caps lock and stop getting shitty about a subject we have little or no actual clarity on.

The board would have said "you have Danny Rose who proved he was PL material last season, and Zeki Fryers as back up" so between the board and baldini, I'm sure that the effort would be to offload BAE until a decision was made. In January, Sherwood publicly admitted he'd rejected the opportunity to sign any players (which includes a left back) so any blame for the situation now lies directly at his door as far as what we've been told by the man himself.

Don't forget that you've put Vertonghen in the exact same position yourself in your post above (left side of defence)...

"Sandro playing there vs City etc because he sold Caulker."

Sandro didn't play in CB versus City. We signed Chiriches to replace Caulker.

This is our team versus City

• 25 Lloris
• 02 Walker
• 05 Vertonghen
• 08 Paulinho (Dembélé - 61' )
• 20 Dawson
• 04 Kaboul
• 07 Lennon
• 30 Sandro
• 09 Soldado (Sigurdsson - 61' )
• 14 Holtby (Adebayor - 45' )
• 11 Lamela

Substitutes

• 06 Chiriches
• 10 Adebayor
• 17 Townsend
• 18 Defoe
• 19 Dembélé
• 22 Sigurdsson
• 24 Friedel

I'm sure we'd be more inclined to take you seriously if you acted like you knew about the things you're talking about.

 

[gibbs131]

BAE had already caused issues and what we know is that he and Caulker were perhaps shipped out due to some sort of off-field issues.

Don't forget that Baldini was now responsible for transfers, so calm down with the caps lock and stop getting shitty about a subject we have little or no actual clarity on.

The board would have said "you have Danny Rose who proved he was PL material last season, and Zeki Fryers as back up" so between the board and baldini, I'm sure that the effort would be to offload BAE until a decision was made. In January, Sherwood publicly admitted he'd rejected the opportunity to sign any players (which includes a left back) so any blame for the situation now lies directly at his door as far as what we've been told by the man himself.

Don't forget that you've put Vertonghen in the exact same position yourself in your post above (left side of defence)...

"Sandro playing there vs City etc because he sold Caulker."

Sandro didn't play in CB versus City. We signed Chiriches to replace Caulker.

This is our team versus City

• 25 Lloris
• 02 Walker
• 05 Vertonghen
• 08 Paulinho (Dembélé - 61' )
• 20 Dawson
• 04 Kaboul
• 07 Lennon
• 30 Sandro
• 09 Soldado (Sigurdsson - 61' )
• 14 Holtby (Adebayor - 45' )
• 11 Lamela

Substitutes

• 06 Chiriches
• 10 Adebayor
• 17 Townsend
• 18 Defoe
• 19 Dembélé
• 22 Sigurdsson
• 24 Friedel

I'm sure we'd be more inclined to take you seriously if you acted like you knew about the things you're talking about.

I meant Sandro played vs Chelsea this weekend after Daws limped off. Capoue did play at cb in one of our thrashings.

Also..That is a lot of effort to argue the fact that AVB's failure regarding a left back impacted our success this season. Because not only did it mean we had players who were not top 4 quality at left back, we also lost our regular CB for too many games as he was on the left.

The fact that you would argue in AVB's defence regarding the left back spot is incomprehensible. You don't have to fight all of his fights for him. Esp ones he got spectacularly wrong.

 

[Doom Funk]

very good player when he wants to be but losing him won't break us as I think as a squad we are already broken. What bothers me most is the money we have spent since losing Modric and we still don't have a midfielder who runs the game for us in any way comparable to how Modric used to. The board should be shot for blowing over 30 mil on Paulinho and Dembele imo

 

[Smoked Salmon]

The board should be shot for blowing over 30 mil on Paulinho and Dembele imo

I dunno. I think if we had a team that they fit into they'd be great signings. It's the combination that doesn't work.

 

[Doom Funk]

I dunno. I think if we had a team that they fit into they'd be great signings. It's the combination that doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong they are clearly quality players but buying them both and expecting them to work together was just madness. Obviously we were never going to fully replace a player like Modric but I think there was no point getting them both

 

[CJJ]

I meant Sandro played vs Chelsea this weekend after Daws limped off. Capoue did play at cb in one of our thrashings.

Also..That is a lot of effort to argue the fact that AVB's failure regarding a left back impacted our success this season. Because not only did it mean we had players who were not top 4 quality at left back, we also lost our regular CB for too many games as he was on the left.

The fact that you would argue in AVB's defence regarding the left back spot is incomprehensible. You don't have to fight all of his fights for him. Esp ones he got spectacularly wrong.

Okay then, versus Chelsea we had one CB Sent off and the other pulled a hammy and Fryers came on for him -Sandro moved to left back to cover the wrongly dismissed Kaboul.

Do you think we should keep 2 centre backs on the bench every game just incase that freak occurance happens again?

We only played Vertonghen at LB when our LBs were injured. Seriously, quit your LB obsession. Any player who whinges like a bitch for having to chip in and help the team in a different position needs to grow up.

Would you prefer Dawson, Chiriches or Kaboul at LB? No, you even put Jan there yourself in your post above

I've noticed you and many others don't blame Sherwood for not buying a LB in January, too.

 

[gibbs131]

Okay then, versus Chelsea we had one CB Sent off and the other pulled a hammy and Fryers came on for him -Sandro moved to left back to cover the wrongly dismissed Kaboul.

Do you think we should keep 2 centre backs on the bench every game just incase that freak occurance happens again?

We only played Vertonghen at LB when our LBs were injured. Seriously, quit your LB obsession. Any player who whinges like a bitch for having to chip in and help the team in a different position needs to grow up.

Would you prefer Dawson, Chiriches or Kaboul at LB? No, you even put Jan there yourself in your post above

I've noticed you and many others don't blame Sherwood for not buying a LB in January, too.

Sherwood is an idiot too. Mugged by Rose, Naughton and Fryers. Putting vert in a back 3 on the left of center is due to the stupidity of both managers. At least he's not way out on the left and has POWER in front of him in my formation...Not like the ghost that is Siggy vs Chelsea.

Just because Siggy has scored against Chelsea in the past, does not mean he should start. I mean Deuce scored against Man Utd. He was a non event apart from goals too.

 

[CJJ]

Sherwood is an idiot too. Mugged by Rose, Naughton and Fryers. Putting vert in a back 3 on the left of center is due to the stupidity of both managers. At least he's not way out on the left and has POWER in front of him in my formation...Not like the ghost that is Siggy vs Chelsea.

What you're missing is that the tactic vs Chelsea worked perfectly fine until the Jan moment.

If you think that Jan played a through ball to Eto'o because of anyone in front of him in a white shirt, you're deluded.

If you think that Kaboul was sent off due to us not having a regular left back, you're also deluded.

And if you think that Sandro & Walker also making mistakes was anything to do with a left back.... yup, you guessed it.

They had 4 shots on target from 4 assists by Spurs players and won 4-0. The only thing wrong with that team that day was a lack of luck and resolve, causing another collapse. And Vertonghen's bizarre defending in that incident.

Note that the fact I don't use this...

... it doesn't mean that what I'm saying has any less emphasis or relevance.

 

[gibbs131]

What you're missing is that the tactic vs Chelsea worked perfectly fine until the Jan moment.

It's a shame games last 90 mins eh? Hell we should have lost our keeper in the first few minutes if you want to nit pick about what could have beens. And I know why we held our own for the first half. Some of our players are very fucking good. You just can't beat the league leaders if you have too many weak links in the team vs a manager who can suss you out.

Like I said, the people who gave away the goals vs Chelsea are our best players. I'm not about to pretend a fucktarded system and weak links has nothing to do with the royal stuffings we have had to endure this season.

 

[gibbs131]

If you think that Jan played a through ball to Eto'o because of anyone in front of him in a white shirt, you're deluded.

Who did he have asking for the ball before he slipped? If you really want to get into it, Kaboul was tying his fucking shoelaces. Vert was to fault for the goal. But nobody else was awake.

Perhaps if Jan was centerback and it was Rose who slipped...Perhaps he would have been switched on?

 

[CJJ]

It's a shame games last 90 mins eh? Hell we should have lost our keeper in the first few minutes if you want to nit pick about what could have beens. And I know why we held our own for the first half. Some of our players are very fucking good. You just can't beat the league leaders if you have too many weak links in the team vs a manager who can suss you out.

Like I said, the people who gave away the goals vs Chelsea are our best players. I'm not about to pretend a fucktarded system and weak links has nothing to do with the royal stuffings we have had to endure this season.

Jan Vertonghen gifts Chelsea a goal...

..."Gibbsy" blames the English players


I'm so very glad you're 4000 miles away from WHL

 

[gibbs131]

Jan Vertonghen gifts Chelsea a goal...

..."Gibbsy" blames the English players

I'm so very glad you're 4000 miles away from WHL

Direct quote from me: "Vert was to fault for the goal."

 

[TheSandro30]

Of course Vert was at fault for the goal! Our biggest failure was not buying a left back, it has haunted us all season IMO

 

[CJJ]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, in our first 11 competitive matches we conceded only 3 goals, in fact we had 14 clean sheets up until the liverpool game, 19 in 47 games so far this season.

Where the stats are letting us down, is the 'top 4' games. Take away the four big defeats we've had this season (City 6-0, City 5-1, Pool 5-0, Chelsea 4-0) ......

If we'd parked the bus:

- we'd have a plus 20 goal difference
- we'd be 4 points better off
- City would be 4 points worse off
- Liverpool & Chelsea would be 2 points worse off

The league *could* have looked like this with 4 x 0-0 draws

(EDIT - realised I hadn't added on our extra 4 points - we'd be above City on 57 points, right?)