Going on From Our failed Domestic Cup Run Thread.....

[NotThatTedHughes]

FA Cup winners since Enic in 200
Liverpool
Arse
Arse
United
Arse
Liverpool
Chelsea
Pompy
Chelsea
Chelsea
City
Chelsea
Wigan
Arse
Arse
United
Arse
Chelsea
City
Arse
Leicester
Liverpool

I'd say the top teams have been taking it seriously. The only one of those 3 outliers that wasn't against a PL team was Pompy too.

This is simply a product of consolidation of where the money is. The gulf between the top teams and the also rans has grown exponentially — and it’s true right across Europe.
If any of the top teams get to the last 8 of a competition at which point they take it off seriously, one of them will almost certainly win it. And most of those teams have deep enough squads to rotate and still progress. Outliers, as you’ve demonstrated, have become few and far between in the Prem era
— in the league and both domestic cups.

 

[1882]

If there was a tournament just for champions of each division, it would be fucking boring, fucking short, and over by fucking November.

Who gives a shit what it's called? It's the top clubs from each country competing against each other.

Imagine, City, Real, PSG, Milan, Porto, Bayern, Celtic, Salzburg, Ajax, Shaktar, Brugge, Pletzen, Zagreb, Zurich, Olympiacos, Bodo, Malmo, Ludogrets, Cluj,
I'm bored looking at all the thrashing boys that would be in it to replace all the teams that didn't win their league.
Imagine it, 30 odd teams including some of that shite. Fucking Tiraspol and Pyunik.
Shamrock Rovers.

The only good thing about it would be there would be fuck all money because no one is paying to watch that shit.

Blimey, alright... it was only a suggestion!!

Have a wank and take a chill pill... Don't take it out on me!

That was my point...

There already WAS a tournament (for almost 70 years) just for the Champions of each division... And it was called the EUROPEAN CUP... and it was doing just fine until UEFA decided to rebrand it and mis-call it the CHAMPIONS league, whilst inviting non-Champions into its competition....

The Champions League should never have been a league format... it was ALWAYS a knockout competition...

The 2nd-6th placings always leant themselves to a league format... Which Shoulda been the UEFA/Europa League ... (or whatever you wanna call it!)

but you go rant and rave like a 2am drunk all you want...

Knock yourself out...

n'Night.... Zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Matt1882]

Blimey, alright... it was only a suggestion!!

Have a wank and take a chill pill... Don't take it out on me!

That was my point...

There already WAS a tournament (for almost 70 years) just for the Champions of each division... And it was called the EUROPEAN CUP... and it was doing just fine until UEFA decided to rebrand it and mis-call it the CHAMPIONS league, whilst inviting non-Champions into its competition....

The Champions League should never have been a league format... it was ALWAYS a knockout competition...

The 2nd-6th placings always leant themselves to a league format... Which Shoulda been the UEFA/Europa League ... (or whatever you wanna call it!)

but you go rant and rave like a 2am drunk all you want...

Knock yourself out...

n'Night.... Zzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry- I read too many people say "the champions league should be for champions" without thinking of that that really looks like. It looks like the Europa league with only 5 times that will dominate it.

 

[Airfixx]

Outliers, as you’ve demonstrated, have become few and far between in the Prem era
— in the league and both domestic cups.

What the fuck was happening in the FA Cup in 2008?

............Just looked at the 2 runs to the final:

Pompey: Ipswich > Plymouth > Preston > Man U > West Brom
Cardiff: Chasetown > Hereford > Wolves > Middlesbrough > Barnsley

 

[spursmalc]

The domestic cup winners were always qualified for Europe but 2nd in the league got you nothing. If not CL qualification then Europa & Conference qualification rather than 6th & 7th in the PL. now if A team that finishes in the top 4 wins the domestic cup it would revert to 6th &7th which is likely this season with MU winning the League cup and one of the Manchester clubs winning the FA Cup but the other 6 clubs would have a greater incentive to win the FA cup as they are not guaranteed to end in top 7.
now would the incentive of qualifying for Europa cup help us when we could still get top 4. Probably not but it is better than what we have now.

 

[Sir Ledders]

No. We just need to consistently turn up in games.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

Yes. Absolutely. Football needs to return to being a sport, about competition, and winning the FA Cup should always be more important than finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the league. The rewards need to match that.

 

[Eli]

Yes. Absolutely. Football needs to return to being a sport, about competition, and winning the FA Cup should always be more important than finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the league. The rewards need to match that.

Money will see to that, if you treble your income by finishing further up a league than actually winning something and the cash rewards for doing so are greater what hope have you got? Unfortunately our stupid board/owners can’t fathom that although we’ve missed the gravy train regards CL for a couple of seasons we were still in European competition and we could/can/should be capable of winning a domestic trophy whilst challenging for league positions and europe WITH the strongest team available.

 

[Airfixx]

Yes. Absolutely. Football needs to return to being a sport, about competition, and winning the FA Cup should always be more important than finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the league. The rewards need to match that.

FA Cup winner was never gifted a spot in the top European comp in the old days so this wouldn't be a case of "getting back" to anything.

 

[BernardMatthews]

Yes. Absolutely. Football needs to return to being a sport, about competition, and winning the FA Cup should always be more important than finishing 2nd, 3rd or 4th in the league. The rewards need to match that.

How?

The FA make hardly any money. Where do they provide the rewards that the champions league or the premier league can?

Football is done. We pay our players £3million a week. To win the FA cup you get £2million.

But the £1k step 5 clubs get for winning a game at the start of the competition can be a massive boost for their finances.

FA cup is for the football pyramid in my mind. The magic of the cup exists for a few rounds at least.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

FA Cup winner was never gifted a spot in the top European comp in the old days so this wouldn't be a case of "getting back" to anything.

You’re misinterpreting me. I’m talking about getting back to the value of sport being in the competition not the money. Obviously cup winners never used to get in the EC as it was only the champions.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

How?

The FA make hardly any money. Where do they provide the rewards that the champions league or the premier league can?

Football is done. We pay our players £3million a week. To win the FA cup you get £2million.

But the £1k step 5 clubs get for winning a game at the start of the competition can be a massive boost for their finances.

FA cup is for the football pyramid in my mind. The magic of the cup exists for a few rounds at least.

By giving the 4th CL spot to the FA Cup winners. Wouldn’t cost the FA anything as the rewards of the CL come from… the CL.

 

[spursmalc]

How?

The FA make hardly any money. Where do they provide the rewards that the champions league or the premier league can?

Football is done. We pay our players £3million a week. To win the FA cup you get £2million.

But the £1k step 5 clubs get for winning a game at the start of the competition can be a massive boost for their finances.

FA cup is for the football pyramid in my mind. The magic of the cup exists for a few rounds at least.

So why does Kane want to win trophies? If he only considers the CL and PL trophy worthwhile then he will not go to MU and MC no longer want him. Is the German league title good enough for him when Bayern win it pretty much every year? MU players were celebrating winning the League cup as were their fans. Anyone who derides the joy of winning a domestic trophy must support a team unlikely to win it like us.
Before we started winning the top 4 non- trophy they used to say players wanted to play in CL but Woolwich & MU did not have trouble attracting players in the summer even though they had no CL.
Not interested in the money but the sheer joy of winning a trophy which I have not had for far too long.

 

[Sir Ledders]

By giving the 4th CL spot to the FA Cup winners. Wouldn’t cost the FA anything as the rewards of the CL come from… the CL.

None of the top 6 clubs would entertain that idea now.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

None of the top 6 clubs would entertain that idea now.

Agreed. But this thread is debating what our personal views are.

 

[El flaco]

The incentive of a possible CL place from winning the Europa hasn’t seen us up our performances in that comp.

 

[Sir Ledders]

Agreed. But this thread is debating what our personal views are.

I still would rather leave it at top 4. I have no faith in this club right now to win a trophy even if a CL place was the prize.

Weren't we in the europa league when the CL spot was the prize and did we take it seriously, genuinely asking as I can't remember?

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

I still would rather leave it at top 4. I have no faith in this club right now to win a trophy even if a CL place was the prize.

Weren't we in the europa league when the CL spot was the prize and did we take it seriously, genuinely asking as I can't remember?

Well, we were shit in it - whether it was attitude or talent I don’t know. Losing 3-0 to Zagreb under Mourinho was potentially our last match in that tournament.

But this is the frustration for many fans. The Europa League and FA Cup are decent tournaments with some prestige and glory. But we constantly turn our noses up at them.

 

[BernardMatthews]

By giving the 4th CL spot to the FA Cup winners. Wouldn’t cost the FA anything as the rewards of the CL come from… the CL.

By “giving” it? UEFA decides who gets the places.
Why not the carabao cup as well? Better to win a trophy than 3rd and 4th place?

And say they offer an English cup this option then what’s to say all European leagues don’t want their cup competition(s) to have a place?
That’s the whole point of the old cup winners cup now Europa league etc etc

 

[BernardMatthews]

So why does Kane want to win trophies? If he only considers the CL and PL trophy worthwhile then he will not go to MU and MC no longer want him. Is the German league title good enough for him when Bayern win it pretty much every year? MU players were celebrating winning the League cup as were their fans. Anyone who derides the joy of winning a domestic trophy must support a team unlikely to win it like us.
Before we started winning the top 4 non- trophy they used to say players wanted to play in CL but Woolwich & MU did not have trouble attracting players in the summer even though they had no CL.
Not interested in the money but the sheer joy of winning a trophy which I have not had for far too long.

Not too sure what your point is. But all players want to win trophies. They want to win 5 a side games in training.

All fans would want us to win a trophy rather than win nothing.
My point is that for the elite clubs the FA cup win won’t even pay a wage bill of a week.

It’s why Levy tells our managers that league positions are important.
We pay Conte £15m a year. You honestly think his remit is to win the domestic cups?

Top 4s our everything.
It’s so blindingly obvious I’m not sure how people can’t see it.

And you really don’t know why United get players?? Money my friend. It makes the world go round. Would you take £150k a week to play Europa league?