Formation

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Dannyboy

Dannyboy

Since the introduction of 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-6-0 teams seems to have, by and large, not played with the same flair and excitement that a traditional 4-4-2 with flying wingers and two up top used to.

I understand that doesn't make the football any less enjoyable to some but there have been dangers that football has become more about not losing as much as it is about winning, and we know how a certain D. Blanchflower felt about that.

This is why I have enjoyed the re-introduction of 3-5-2/5-3-2 so much. The teams who have employed it most often, Holland, Costa Rica, Mexico and to an extent Argentina (not too often - and perhaps not the best example, granted), have been great to watch, putting emphasis on counter attacking football at speed.

I have wondered if we have the players for this formation for a while now, and think we do....with players like Walker, Vertonghen (as a CB who can advance, not a wing back) Holtby and Sandro alongside a slightly advance Paulinho, in the middle and Erikssen behind Soldado (who could thrive on the width as well as clever through balls from Erikssen)....as an option I like it a lot.
 
I do think we'll start seeing those formations more in the future. Kinda makes sense with the evolution of the game since three-man midfields of "specialists" have become so commonplace (which I personally like a lot) and the use of wingbacks. While the Argentinians used it rather poorly in their opening game against Bosnia-Herzegovina (although Argentina has been quite disappointing as a whole in this tournament IMO), the Dutch used it extremely well against Spain in their opener. It will be intriguing to see how van Gaal lines Man U up this next season, considering he's always been such a staunch advocate of the 4-3-3.

As for us, I think we'll inevitably see Poch's 4-2-3-1 for at least awhile, but I do hope as he learns he begins to become more adaptable. This was a concern we all had from his record at Saints, but then of course he did have considerably less resources at his disposal. I think you're right, it could work with the players we have (albeit with some changes to the left), but we'd have to drop out of the high press obviously to make it work. Otherwise, you're sacrificing numbers in those advanced positions to receive the vertical passes Poch likes so much as well as disrupt the possession of the opposition, which is the entire premise of Poch/Bielsa tactics.
 
cahspur said:
I do think we'll start seeing those formations more in the future. Kinda makes sense with the evolution of the game since three-man midfields of "specialists" have become so commonplace (which I personally like a lot) and the use of wingbacks. While the Argentinians used it rather poorly in their opening game against Bosnia-Herzegovina (although Argentina has been quite disappointing as a whole in this tournament IMO), the Dutch used it extremely well against Spain in their opener. It will be intriguing to see how van Gaal lines Man U up this next season, considering he's always been such a staunch advocate of the 4-3-3.

As for us, I think we'll inevitably see Poch's 4-2-3-1 for at least awhile, but I do hope as he learns he begins to become more adaptable. This was a concern we all had from his record at Saints, but then of course he did have considerably less resources at his disposal. I think you're right, it could work with the players we have (albeit with some changes to the left), but we'd have to drop out of the high press obviously to make it work. Otherwise, you're sacrificing numbers in those advanced positions to receive the vertical passes Poch likes so much as well as disrupt the possession of the opposition, which is the entire premise of Poch/Bielsa tactics.
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I would be happy to see us play a little deeper if it meant playing on the break. Some of the best football I have seen, from Spurs as well as others has been devastating, breakaway football.
 
Dannyboy said:
I would be happy to see us play a little deeper if it meant playing on the break. Some of the best football I have seen, from Spurs as well as others has been devastating, breakaway football.
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I miss counterattacking football quite a bit myself. Much more exciting to watch. It also makes the celebrations more exiting because they're typically off the back of a more thrilling move, so it makes it easier to relate to and develop an attachment to those players.
 
sammyspurs said:
Well now that the world cup has officially destroyed Tippy Tappy, heres hoping that there is a swift return to wing play and having shots in the game..
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Bale is gone bro.

harry-redknapp.jpg
 
I know the Potch isn't going to, but that doesn't make me want a counter attacking 433 even less.

Two wing backs bombing it down the wings with no thought to defensive duties.

Centre backs both sitting deep playing Dawson-esque diagonal balls to run on you.

A central deep lying play maker that sits back as a third defender when the wing backs are up the field.

Two attacking play makers running late into the box and putting through balls in to the attackers.

A central target man to receive the ball and put the two whippets through on goal either side of him.

Absorb and pounce :ledleylick:
 
----------------------ade------------------

---eriksen---dembele---Lamela--

--------capoue-------the beast------

Leftback---vertongen---kab--wal

---------------------Llorris------------------

Paulinho, bentaleb, Chadli, Kane, vlad etc would get a ton of games in this formation and it won't be any weaker and even potentially better.
 
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Dannyboy said:
Since the introduction of 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-6-0 teams seems to have, by and large, not played with the same flair and excitement that a traditional 4-4-2 with flying wingers and two up top used to.

I understand that doesn't make the football any less enjoyable to some but there have been dangers that football has become more about not losing as much as it is about winning, and we know how a certain D. Blanchflower felt about that.

This is why I have enjoyed the re-introduction of 3-5-2/5-3-2 so much. The teams who have employed it most often, Holland, Costa Rica, Mexico and to an extent Argentina (not too often - and perhaps not the best example, granted), have been great to watch, putting emphasis on counter attacking football at speed.

I have wondered if we have the players for this formation for a while now, and think we do....with players like Walker, Vertonghen (as a CB who can advance, not a wing back) Holtby and Sandro alongside a slightly advance Paulinho, in the middle and Erikssen behind Soldado (who could thrive on the width as well as clever through balls from Erikssen)....as an option I like it a lot.
Click to expand...

with Modric , vdv and Bale we were playing 4-2-3-1 , with parker/sandro holding along side Modric and VDV as a pure no 10. and Adebayor upfront. It was entertaining because we had quality creative players who could link up play.Don't think it has anything to do with 4-4-2.

4-3-3 is a good formation, I have just recently watched Germany play with it, once again I don't S think purs have versatile players in midfield to adapt to it.

3-5-2 is quite popular in italy and we have seen variations with 3-4-3 used by wigan last season but once again these are systems that could take an entire season for players to adapt to, Walker could make a good wing back, vertonghen central.And daley blind would alow to use to play three at the back, danny rose, Nah.

To be quite frank, I have zero idea what formation is best for the selection of spurs players at the moment. We are suffering from a poorly thought transfer strategy. Our central midfielders are lacking creativity and craft. In particular Paulinho, which was a bad purchase.
I think once we stick with Lamela and eriksen ( give them the time to adapt and not sub them after a bad game), and purchase a creative midfielder (who has atleast half the vision and intelligence of Modric) our team wil look more balanced and will be able to morph into different formations whether 4-2-3-1,4-3-3 or even 3-5-2.
 
Personally prefer formations with a bigger midfield, especially 4-3-3 but also 4-4-2 with a narrow diamond in midfield. Really loved Chiles hybrid version of both mentioned formations (which they used against Australia) with two nominal wide players up front (Sánchez and Vargas) and an attacking midfielder between/deeper behind them.
But as sbd mentioned not the best idea for us as it needs at least one "deep-lying playmaker" type of midfielder which we don't have (despite maybe Eriksen...).
As for the 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 formation that are hyped a bit because of Chile/Mexico/Netherlands using them: Actually they're quite comparable to a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 with a narrow diamond. The only difference is that the central defensive midfileder is shifted to a deeper position and the wing backs have a more attacking role with less defensive duties compared to full backs in the generic back-four-formations. If you looked at the three mentioned national teams, there is always one player with a more attacking role than the other centre backs, mostly the central one (Márquez at Mexico, Medel at Chile and Blind at Holland). All three nominal defensive midfielders.
What I want to say is that (only concerning the attack movement) back-three formations are more or less 4-3-3/4-1-2-1-2-formations with additional defensive duties for the former defensive midfielder and additional attacking duties for the wing backs.
 
And to look smart too.
5-3-2 i would like if we could get alderweireld, also once more expressing my new found love with Colombia, then..Zuniga, would go as LWB. Verts - toby - vlad + walker and Zuniga, and i think nobody doubts Zunigas talent anymore.
 
The key to that system working is having good wing-backs. Walker has never played there so I wouldn't know what he is like, but he is quick and has a lot of energy so could do well there. On the other side we would need to sign someone else, otherwise it isn't even worth touching - if the defensive block isn't right then it undermines everything else.

Elsewhere, we have a good striker partnership for it to work, and plenty of talented midfielders with a lot of balance (box-to-box runners, creators, tempo men etc).
 
gibbs131 said:
----------------------ade------------------

---eriksen---dembele---Lamela--

--------capoue-------the beast------

Leftback---vertongen---kab--wal

---------------------Llorris------------------

Paulinho, bentaleb, Chadli, Kane, vlad etc would get a ton of games in this formation and it won't be any weaker and even potentially better.
Click to expand...
I really wouldnt put Dembele that attacking, the guy cant shoot and isnt very creative, that spot should be for Eriksen and only Eriksen. We need to get a top LW.
 
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