Vincent Janssen

[sammyspurs]

Actually, we're more predictable, as it's very easy to tell that we will ignore the dangerous pass in favour of a shot from range.

Kane has not been "found out". He's always marked. He was also always marked last year. This year, he's getting passed to much less. That makes things more predictable, as teams know to ignore him.

Well Chelsea certainly didnt predict Eriksen would pick out Alli running through the middle twice....3 Alli headers in two games. Its a new side to our game.

I agree we need to put our strikers in more often, but as I said, who cares if we pass to Kane or Alli if the ends up in the back of the net. I like the fact that Eriksen is shooting from distance, and Id like to see Dembele do it more too..

Son, for all his frustrating play will not score if he looks for Kane all the time.....he´s greedy, but he´s not prolific. He needs a high amount of shots to goal ratio, so as you say, if Kane is always marked, why not have a pop.


Kane made a lot more happen for himself before he got knackered and injured. He is definately gaining sharpness, but the key for us is that he is a team player and he´s not affected by dry spells.

He is there for the club, and if we win, we win.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Well Chelsea certainly predict Eriksen would pick out Alli running through the middle twice....3 Alli headers in two games. Its a new side to our game.

I agree we need to put our strikers in more often, but as I said, who cares if we pass to Kane or Alli if the ends up in the back of the net. I like the fact that Eriksen is shooting from distance, and Id like to see Dembele do it more too..

Son, for all his frustrating play will not score if he looks for Kane all the time.....he´s greedy, but he´s not prolific. He needs a high amount of shots to goal ratio, so as you say, if Kane is always marked, why not have a pop.

Kane made a lot more happen for himself before he got knackered and injured. He is definately gaining sharpness, but the key for us is that he is a team player and he´s not affected by dry spells.

He is there for the club, and if we win, we win.

"Having a pop" as you say, is actually a bad choice because it wastes an attacking opportunity. Football is a low-scoring sport. It's HARD to create shots. Getting the ball deep into the final third, and then choosing to do something with a very low chance of succeeding, instead of doing something with a much higher chance, is a waste of what are limited opportunities.

Fans like long shots because when they come off the look cool. Good teams don't take long shots because they're a waste of the limited chances they get. Literally every top attacking team shoots less from range and works to build chances closer to goal.

We want to win games. You win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Doing things which give you less chance to score goals means you win less. Ergo taking lots of long shots means we win less. I am not a fan of winning less.

 

[koppel]

"Having a pop" as you say, is actually a bad choice because it wastes an attacking opportunity. Football is a low-scoring sport. It's HARD to create shots. Getting the ball deep into the final third, and then choosing to do something with a very low chance of succeeding, instead of doing something with a much higher chance, is a waste of what are limited opportunities.

Fans like long shots because when they come off the look cool. Good teams don't take long shots because they're a waste of the limited chances they get. Literally every top attacking team shoots less from range and works to build chances closer to goal.

We want to win games. You win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Doing things which give you less chance to score goals means you win less. Ergo taking lots of long shots means we win less. I am not a fan of winning less.

Why do you think Cahill and Luiz made the mistake of trying to step out and close Eriksen's space when there wasn't time? Because they know he's a player that can score from distance as he did the last time we played them. That's what created the space for Kane and Alli to attack and Eriksen to pick out.

Having a pop at goal from distance isn't just about scoring, it's about getting a parked defense to step out of position or move higher up the pitch, hence opening avenues to pass, cross or run the ball into. That's why having a player like Eriksen who's always a threat from distance is a huge gift for the other players.

Look at Barcelona last night. They were up against a parked Villarreal bus that nicked a goal on the counter, and they kept having pops at goal from distance because it dragged out the defense of Villarreal which opened up passes for Iniesta and Messi to pick out.

 

[sammyspurs]

"Having a pop" as you say, is actually a bad choice because it wastes an attacking opportunity. Football is a low-scoring sport. It's HARD to create shots. Getting the ball deep into the final third, and then choosing to do something with a very low chance of succeeding, instead of doing something with a much higher chance, is a waste of what are limited opportunities.

Fans like long shots because when they come off the look cool. Good teams don't take long shots because they're a waste of the limited chances they get. Literally every top attacking team shoots less from range and works to build chances closer to goal.

We want to win games. You win games by scoring more goals than the other team. Doing things which give you less chance to score goals means you win less. Ergo taking lots of long shots means we win less. I am not a fan of winning less.

Passing to a striker with 3 men around him is also a wasted chance....at some point he will too have to shoot.

Having a pop ruins a move? The last time I played, it was the only way to score a goal.
We seem to be winning games....6 in a row....playing the way we are to be fair. I dont remember Allis headers being long hopeful punts from 20yrds.

And Eriksen actually broke the deadlock at Stamford Bridge by shooting. Its got nothing to do with "looking cool"....its how you score sometimes.

We can score more with the through ball to strikers...doesnt mean we should abandon using our AMs to score goals though.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Why do you think Cahill and Luiz made the mistake of trying to step out and close Eriksen's space when there wasn't time? Because they know he's a player that can score from distance as he did the last time we played them. That's what created the space for Kane and Alli to attack and Eriksen to pick out.

Having a pop at goal from distance isn't just about scoring, it's about getting a parked defense to step out of position or move higher up the pitch, hence opening avenues to pass, cross or run the ball into. That's why having a player like Eriksen who's always a threat from distance is a huge gift for the other players.

Look at Barcelona last night. They were up against a parked Villarreal bus that nicked a goal on the counter, and they kept having pops at goal from distance because it dragged out the defense of Villarreal which opened up passes for Iniesta and Messi to pick out.

Having a pop can be a last resort, when facing a parked bus, but it is still the less good choice. Cahill and Luiz did what CBs always do. They also had to close him down in case he tried to pass to Dele, who could have been in if Eriksen had opted to pass instead.

Our shooting from range does not create space, nor does it move defences. It's our first choice method of attack, and that is demonstrably holding us back.

It's not hard to compare the other top teams to us, and notice that we create significantly fewer chances than they do in good shooting locations. They face the same defensive problems we do. They're also doing things more efficiently than we are. Klopp's biggest attacking change this year was to try improving their shooting locations. It was something he focused on, and it has been their main edge this year. They're not good defensively, but by taking fewer long shots in favour of working the ball closer in, they're scoring enough to compete for the top 4.

This is our weakness, and is the main thing holding back our attack. You can see it here: Tableau Public
We shoot much more from range than our rivals. We're scoring less because of it.

 

[Boltonspur]

Team game. Couldn't give a shit if Ben Davies ended up our top scorer. Can't agree with the suggestion that "Spurs have a problem"...if nobody was scoring, then we'd have a problem.

4 against Southampton & Watford. 2 against the Chavs & 2 more against Villa playing our second string. Anyone using stats to say we currently have a problem needs (imo) to concentrate more on the actual matches. And I'm not trying to start a squabble with the statmeisters on here. But if you want stats to tell you there is a problem, go knock yourself out.
To me, the only stat that matters is the final score

Thereafter, I like to see solid performances across the board, dominating possession & pressing when we don't have the ball. We are doing that week in, week out at present.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Passing to a striker with 3 men around him is also a wasted chance....at some point he will too have to shoot.

Having a pop ruins a move? The last time I played, it was the only way to score a goal.
We seem to be winning games....6 in a row....playing the way we are to be fair. I dont remember Allis headers being long hopeful punts from 20yrds.

And Eriksen actually broke the deadlock at Stamford Bridge by shooting. Its got nothing to do with "looking cool"....its how you score sometimes.

We can score more with the through ball to strikers...doesnt mean we should abandon using our AMs to score goals though.

I didn't say abandon AMs shooting. I said that having our AMs shoot so much from range instead of trying to pass more was reducing our chances of scoring. We've won 6 games in a row. But will we win the next 6? The process matters, not the result, as you can't control the result. You can only control the process. Good teams have better process than crap teams. Our process can be improved. A lot.

 

[Boltonspur]

you can't control the result

We don't seem to be doing too badly at the moment. Stats or no stats saying the contrary.

I think we have controlled nearly every game this season. We were the better team at Stamford Bridge for half the match, & better than United at their place- Kane's poor pass in the middle of the field cost us that game. They are our only losses.

 

[Mr S Pippo]

The only priorty when shoting is get it on target. What is being said is right but not realistic.
. Chelsea filled thier area with players, this forces the issue. Either high and head, long range efforts or run through bodies to get near. . We chose right. All you lot that get off on stats, look at the Chelsea game and they out did us in every department but lost 2 nil?

 

[sammyspurs]

Having a pop can be a last resort, when facing a parked bus, but it is still the less good choice. Cahill and Luiz did what CBs always do. They also had to close him down in case he tried to pass to Dele, who could have been in if Eriksen had opted to pass instead.

Our shooting from range does not create space, nor does it move defences. It's our first choice method of attack, and that is demonstrably holding us back.

It's not hard to compare the other top teams to us, and notice that we create significantly fewer chances than they do in good shooting locations. They face the same defensive problems we do. They're also doing things more efficiently than we are. Klopp's biggest attacking change this year was to try improving their shooting locations. It was something he focused on, and it has been their main edge this year. They're not good defensively, but by taking fewer long shots in favour of working the ball closer in, they're scoring enough to compete for the top 4.

This is our weakness, and is the main thing holding back our attack. You can see it here: Tableau Public
We shoot much more from range than our rivals. We're scoring less because of it.

Theres always something that gives.....Liverpool score more but concede more.

I cant honestly bemoan our lack of scoring. Weve scored 25 goals in all comps since the beginning of December.

I think Kane maybe not be scoring as many, and Vinny not getting the service, but by January 1 2016 we had scored 33 goals PL

We are on 39 now January 9 2017.

How are we scoring less?

 

[SouthCoastSpur]

Unfortunately didn't get to see yesterday's game but from what I saw earlier in the season Janssen seemed to be working very hard for the team whenever he was playing.
Not the ideal start to his Spurs career but I still have confidence in him and feel with a full Poch summer he will improve.
At the moment I just want him to get in the right positions, stop coming too deep or wide to get the ball and be in and around the box to get on the end of chances.
Don't let your head drop Vinny!!

 

[Mr S Pippo]

I didn't say abandon AMs shooting. I that having our AMs shoot so much from range instead of trying to pass more was reducing our chances of scoring. We've won 6 games in a row. But will we win the next 6? The process matters, not the result, as you can't control the result. You can only control the process. Good teams have better process than crap teams. Our process can be improved. A lot.

Its called team spirt, organised, luck and having better players. I dont want to burst your taticle bubble, but its 11 against 11.. Its not a matter of process. Conte does process and likes to fill areas with players and , everyone behind the ball and knock it long to Costa. if this is what your are promoting, you can keep it.This is not football, its what ruined Italian footgall.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Its called team spirt, organised, luck and having better players. I dont want to burst your taticle bubble, but its 11 against 11.. Its not a matter of process. Conte does process and likes to fill areas with players and , everyone behind the ball and knock it long to Costa. if this is what your are promoting, you can keep it.This is not football, its what ruined Italian footgall.

11 against 11? So then it is a matter of process. I am not talking about Conte, I am talking about how we try to score goals. We are doing effective things less, and ineffective things more. Which means we're scoring less than we could do if we played smarter in attack.

We don't even need to compromise our defence to do it. But a great example of the issue was during the Chelsea game. Dembele drove forward, and fed a throughball in for Kane. He just ran out of space, but if we do more of those, we'll get more goals. In contrast, Eriksen could have tried to feed a throughball to Dele, and instead shot from range to see it arc away from goal.

Our goals came from the only two times we got a shot off inside the box. Both moments when Eriksen chose to pass instead of taking a long shot.

We need to do more of the latter and less of the shots from range. That's not playing like Conte, or knocking the ball long for Costa, it's about using the 11 guys on the pitch to move into better positions closer to goal. 67 years ago a Spurs manager even managed to come up with a name for that process...

 

[VirginiaSpur]

This pile-on is really a shame. Especially from the media.

I'm getting pop-up alerts pushed to my cell-phone and computer "Damning Statistics from Vincent Janssen", "Premier League's Least Effective Striker", etc.

Getting on my nerves. I want to enjoy our good run of form.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

We don't seem to be doing too badly at the moment. Stats or no stats saying the contrary.

I think we have controlled nearly every game this season. We were the better team at Stamford Bridge for half the match, & better than United at their place- Kane's poor pass in the middle of the field cost us that game. They are our only losses.

In the League, yes. But we have lost more than just those games, and we have been out-played on a few occasions. If we want to win in the Champion's League, and win more in this league instead of drawing matches (like we did for quite a while), we need to improve some of the things about how we play. And where we are shooting from is something we can improve a great deal, and when we improve that, our results will also get better.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I follow these types of stats as they do track underlying performance in the team. The classic example of this is West Ham, every single person in this world wrote how shit West Ham were last season despite them having their highest Finnish in a billion years. The only thing that cam as a surprise was that their luck was maintained for the season, this year they are what we all know them to be AND the stats support this.

Whilst the shots volumes and quality of shots posted by @juicysushi are valid and support what my eyes have seen for the whole season his use of the words "problem" are exaggerated, we are the 5th highest scorers in the League, whilst not playing well until recently. What a fucking brilliant problem to have.

The Kane and Janssen number are not a problem for me, why? So long as they put a shift in and run the back-line (as Kane did at Chelsea), if they are getting close attention from CB's then move them out, tire them out, turn them, even if you don't have the ball at your feet. Whilst you do this they are not going to be shooting, let alone scoreing. But if this creates space for other players to score, happy fucking days. We are not Kane FC, we are Tottenham Hotspur.

Other things too are very important that the stats can't show and that is what having a shot does to the atmosphere, our first shot last night was met with cheers, it was a weak feeble low percentage shot but it lifted a crowd that was bored shitless at the time. We kicked on from there with a more engaged support. We had more low quality shots, the crowd continued to respond. On a completely different note but a similar example about lifting the crowd was when Alli came on. All the media are wanking over Alli's appearance and say he changed the game, I say no he didn't (he played well but didn't change the game on his own). The change of formation was the reason we won last night, but Alli's arrival was met with an uplifting atmosphere that wasn't there before, it contributed towards a more positive performance.

Final comment on shooting even if the percentage chance is poor. I think what koppel & sammyspurs were referring to is that if Eriksen takes on a low percentage shot from outside the box, he still is a threat as he is known quality from distance, Chelsea have to come out to him to block the shot, this in it's self should open up the space for us to exploit, if taken by one of our players Eriksen can now put the ball through to that person. If he isn't being closed down the percentage of the shot increases.

These underlying stats are good though and don't throw-up any surprises for me.

 

[Boltonspur]

The only priorty when shoting is get it on target. What is being said is right but not realistic.
. Chelsea filled thier area with players, this forces the issue. Either high and head, long range efforts or run through bodies to get near. . We chose right. All you lot that get off on stats, look at the Chelsea game and they out did us in every department but lost 2 nil?

And, importantly, anyone watching the game rather than analysing the stats post match would not have said that we were outdone in any area of the pitch. We beat them fair & square & were the better team regardless of what the stats may suggest. This is my big problem with stats. Their value is very limited imo & are open to being interpreted how the analyst wants them to "look", rather than what most people just see with the naked eye.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Final comment on shooting even if the percentage chance is poor. I think what koppel & sammyspurs were referring to is that if Eriksen takes on a low percentage shot from outside the box, he still is a threat as he is known quality from distance, Chelsea have to come out to him to block the shot, this in it's self should open up the space for us to exploit, if taken by one of our players Eriksen can now put the ball through to that person. If he isn't being closed down the percentage of the shot increases.

These underlying stats are good though and don't throw-up any surprises for me.

Here's the problem with the scenario you describe. Eriksen is a threat, but it's still not likely to go in, and he's also, by taking the shot, not actually making the pass you describe. That's what's particularly notable about Eriksen this year. He's not making those passes when the chance presents. And that is costing us.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

And, importantly, anyone watching the game rather than analysing the stats post match would not have said that we were outdone in any area of the pitch. We beat them fair & square & were the better team regardless of what the stats may suggest. This is my big problem with stats. Their value is very limited imo & are open to being interpreted how the analyst wants them to "look", rather than what most people just see with the naked eye.

I find you are claiming things were said that were not said. And the naked eye is a notoriously unreliable witness. But more to the point, you are missing my point. We can play better than we are. Given how tight things are this year, we can't really afford not to improve.

 

[Thin Lilywhite Duke]

Might help if Janssen was in the box a bit more. Feels like he's playing as a winger.

Asked if his striker had struggled, Pochettino said: “It is true but look again at the game we played against Chelsea. Both the strikers struggled in the first half, Diego Costa and Harry Kane.

“In the second half today he started to find better space to play but we decided to put Alli on.

“It was tough but not only for him. He needs to work hard and not be frustrated.”

I like these quotes a lot. It's infuriating when pundits (and their ilk) pile on a striker because they didn't do much in a match, in spite of our eyes telling us they were marked out of the game by either a parked bus and/or excellent defending.

On that note, I don't think Chelsea's attackers 'had an off day' or were terrible against us: our tactics and defensive players basically left them with nothing to feed off.

West Brom will be frustrating as fuck this weekend, and I'd be very surprised if Kane manages to score given how Pulis will have them lined up.

This pile-on is really a shame. Especially from the media.

I'm getting pop-up alerts pushed to my cell-phone and computer "Damning Statistics from Vincent Janssen", "Premier League's Least Effective Striker", etc.

Getting on my nerves. I want to enjoy our good run of form.

The media is chomping at the bit to find something negative to say about us, and conversely praise United at every chance.
In terms of Janssen? Guilt by association I guess. Perhaps a way to insult us despite Kane being a revelation over the past three years.