'Yid'

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The American example I think is reflected in the club's official negative view toward the word. I think that it would be crass if, say, one could buy clobber with the word on it at the Spurs Shop.
 
At FedEx Field in D.C. they sell clobber with the word Redskin on it. So I assume they don't find it offensive. If the Spurs Shop sold items with the word Yid or Yiddo would it be crass, or would it be an indication that the word isn't regarded as perjorative?

<I agree with you wholeheartedly btw - just interesting what money can do>
 
"Redskin" is the name of a leather goods store here selling leather jackets to suburban kids in malls. Everytime I see the name, I get a little sick, but, well, France, innit.

I find the term exceptionally offensive and don't use it to refer to the team from Washington (which is lucky, since I tend not to have to talk about the NFL). The fact that people make money off it, however, well, again... what can you do?
 
Thelonious said:
Smoked Salmon said:
I don't consider myself a Jew but my mother's side of the family is Jewish and I grew up around the traditions, et al. I was always taught that Yid was an offensive word. So when I first started going to WHL it made me a little uncomforatble. But the general consensus amongst Spurs supporting Jews is that it does not offend. So I suppose the argument has to be, is it bad if it offends even one personb, or is teh majority opinion what matters?
this is the crux of the whole argument really.
I think the bigger issue isn't with Jewish Spurs fans, many of whom are proud of 'Yid', but with non-Spurs and non-football fans.

I was on the train yesterday after the match and 'Yid Army' was being chanted. You could see the non football fans squirm uncomfortably as they were caught in the midst of it. They chuckled at other chants, but were visibly uncomfortable with 'Yid Army'.

That is the crux.
 
[*]i must say i have enjoyed reading this open and mature debate. it's good to see this happen here. whenever i've heard the "yid" issue discussed elsewhere, it invariably opens up a can of worms.

i think it's great that spurs fans had the "chutzpah" (to use my favourite yiddisher word) to adopt the term "yid" in a bid to negate the derogatry term of abuse hurled at us by racist rival fans.

i do recall, in the old days, being sickened by west ham fans who, en masse, would do the nazi salute while shouting "zeig heil"; or making the whooshing sound of gas chambers.

they'd call out "filthy yids" to which spurs fans started to respond with: "we're proud of that, we're proud of that, we're proud of that, we're proud."

and so the term "yido" was born.

i do recall also, being accosted by my maths teacher (mrs montague, a jewish chelsea fan - bitch) for chanting "yid army" at school once. she couldn't appreciate that it had become an inclusive badge of honour, designed to show solidarity with people like her.

of course, now that tottenham has become a predominantly black area, with even a black member of parliament, i think - in the interests of fair play and equal opportunities - we spurs fans should now consider calling ourselves "n*****s".
 
implied-facepalm.jpg
 
There is a point here that I hope isn't being missed.

It would take Chelsea and Woolwich fans to start calling Spurs fans 'Niggers' (due to the high percentage of black people in Tottenham) for us to adopt that word as an affectionate term, but they wouldn't dare. So why do they dare call us 'yids'. And would people be happy if Spurs fan's to take 'Niggers' purely because we deemed it affectionate to call each other that. It's the same principle.

It's a difficult thing to get right. I'm certainly not as sure about the word 'yid' as I was a few years ago. That said, like it or not, it is a term that is, in London at least, associated as much with Tottenham Hotspur as it is with jewish people. As a Tottenham fan I consider it my word as well. The other thing is that Chelsea and Woolwich and West Ham won't stop saying it because we do, they would continue and the positive spin we put on it would be lost forever.

PLUS it's the one thing that the club could never put on a mug or T Shirt. it's ours, the fans', it it always will be.
 
Flav said:
But why is okay to adopt 'yid'


adopting a 'term' is proceeded by it being socially acceptable to openly use it as a term of abuse

historically it must have been socially acceptable for opposition fans to use the word 'yid'
 
Blanchflower said:
Flav said:
But why is okay to adopt 'yid'


adopting a 'term' is proceeded by it being socially acceptable to openly use it as a term of abuse

historically it must have been socially acceptable for opposition fans to use the word 'yid'

not sure where ur going with this, blanchflower.

"yid" comes from "yiddish", a socially acceptable term to describe the language used by east european jews.
similarly "n*gg*r" comes from "negro", a socially acceptable (spanish) term for black.
similarly "p*ki" comes from "pakistani", a socially acceptable term for people from pakistan.

however, certainly in the uk, it has never been socially acceptable to use the term "yid", just as it has never been socially acceptable to us the "n" or "p" word.

i'm sorry. whether we like it or not, "yid" was and remains an ethnic slur; a derogatory slang word for a jew. look it up!

and there is a clear pejorative equivalance between the "y" word and the "n" or "p" word... which is why i had the chutzpah to post what i did above. i'd like to think it got people thinking.

now, if it's ok for us to adopt the term "yid" to describe ourselves as spurs fans (and we all know the reasons why we did it), by the same token, under different circumstances, we could have been "n*gg*rs" or "p*k*s".

now, if ur not comfortable with that, but remain comfortable with using the term "yid", i'd be interested to hear why.
 
Since I've heard some very persuasive arguments from non-Spurs Jewish football fans, I have felt so uncomfortable with it that I don't reply to any of my Twitter friends with 'Yid' in their Twitter name because it causes offence to my followers who aren't Spurs fans.

It's the reality, guys.
 
ZoC said:
Blanchflower said:
Flav said:
But why is okay to adopt 'yid'


adopting a 'term' is proceeded by it being socially acceptable to openly use it as a term of abuse

historically it must have been socially acceptable for opposition fans to use the word 'yid'

not sure where ur going with this, blanchflower.

"yid" comes from "yiddish", a socially acceptable term to describe the language used by east european jews.
similarly "n*gg*r" comes from "negro", a socially acceptable (spanish) term for black.
similarly "p*ki" comes from "pakistani", a socially acceptable term for people from pakistan.

however, certainly in the uk, it has never been socially acceptable to use the term "yid", just as it has never been socially acceptable to us the "n" or "p" word.

i'm sorry. whether we like it or not, "yid" was and remains an ethnic slur; a derogatory slang word for a jew. look it up!

and there is a clear pejorative equivalance between the "y" word and the "n" or "p" word... which is why i had the chutzpah to post what i did above. i'd like to think it got people thinking.

now, if it's ok for us to adopt the term "yid" to describe ourselves as spurs fans (and we all know the reasons why we did it), by the same token, under different circumstances, we could have been "n*gg*rs" or "p*k*s".

now, if ur not comfortable with that, but remain comfortable with using the term "yid", i'd be interested to hear why.
I have heard Asian youths describe themselves as 'Pa**s' in a militant type way, which is a similar use. However, I doubt their non-Asian friends use it about themselves.

That's what we're talking about here: non-Jewish Spurs fans claiming a word that they have no historical right to and don't understand the pain it has caused over the decades.
 
isn't it great to be able to reclaim the word 'yid' from its negative connotations. I'm Jewish and when I shout 'yid' at the lane I feel like it completely reduces the impact of any anti semitism that I hear at most away grounds and from most away fans when they come to to WHL
 
Park Lane Ninja said:
isn't it great to be able to reclaim the word 'yid' from its negative connotations. I'm Jewish and when I shout 'yid' at the lane I feel like it completely reduces the impact of any anti semitism that I hear at most away grounds and from most away fans when they come to to WHL
Yeah, but you're Jewish, for a start, so you understand its meaning. I mean, you really understand it.

My biggest gripe is Spurs fans using it around pubs, train stations and on Tube trains. I think there's little harm done when it's used in its 'proper' context, because everyone knows what it means when it's used at a match, inside the stadium. but once it's out in public, it causes offence.
 
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