'Yid'

[ZoC]

I have heard Asian youths describe themselves as 'Pa**s' in a militant type way, which is a similar use. However, I doubt their non-Asian friends use it about themselves.

similarly, black (and only - as far as i'm aware - black) rappers have adopted the "n" word.

That's what we're talking about here: non-Jewish Spurs fans claiming a word that they have no historical right to and don't understand the pain it has caused over the decades.

spot on.

 

[78Spur]

Then it seems to me that eventually we will have to drop the 'Yid' label because no matter how well intended it was at the beginning, how we use it now, most of us aren't jewish and therefore it isn't truly our word.

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

I have heard Asian youths describe themselves as 'Pa**s' in a militant type way, which is a similar use. However, I doubt their non-Asian friends use it about themselves.

similarly, black (and only - as far as i'm aware - black) rappers have adopted the "n" word.

That's what we're talking about here: non-Jewish Spurs fans claiming a word that they have no historical right to and don't understand the pain it has caused over the decades.

spot on.

Shall I push back now?

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

Then it seems to me that eventually we will have to drop the 'Yid' label because no matter how well intended it was at the beginning, how we use it now, most of us aren't jewish and therefore it isn't truly our word.

The whole Jewish identity argument is false anyway. Arse have as big a proportion of Jewush fans as we do.

 

[78Spur]

Then it seems to me that eventually we will have to drop the 'Yid' label because no matter how well intended it was at the beginning, how we use it now, most of us aren't jewish and therefore it isn't truly our word.

The whole Jewish identity argument is false anyway. Arse have as big a proportion of Jewush fans as we do.

But it's not false insofar that we're using the word 'Yid' is it?

 

[ZoC]

Shall I push back now?

u fiddle, i'll get on the roof.

 

[Schoolboy'sOwnStuff]

Then it seems to me that eventually we will have to drop the 'Yid' label because no matter how well intended it was at the beginning, how we use it now, most of us aren't jewish and therefore it isn't truly our word.

The whole Jewish identity argument is false anyway. Arse have as big a proportion of Jewush fans as we do.

But it's not false insofar that we're using the word 'Yid' is it?

I'm agreeing with you.

 

[1882]

Then it seems to me that eventually we will have to drop the 'Yid' label because no matter how well intended it was at the beginning, how we use it now, most of us aren't jewish and therefore it isn't truly our word.

The whole Jewish identity argument is false anyway. Arse have as big a proportion of Jewush fans as we do.

True, but no other club hissed at ArseAnal's fans in the away end, or lauded Adolf Hitler as some kind of hero for gassing all the Jews, whilst pointing directly at THEM did they?

At some point in the early '70s, someone in their infinite wisdom 'decided' Spurs fans were all Jewish, and therefore it was perfectly fine to daub us all YIDS... well whoever you were, hear this;
FUCK YOU AND YOUR CUNTY CLUB AND SMALL-MINDED STUPIDITY!
We're PROUD TO BE TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR, AND PROUD TO BE PART OF THE YID ARMY... so where are your words of vitriol now?

(I unashamedly take my tone from Flav's VO on the Ultras project Vid!!)

 

[Thelonious]

The history of the N word is steeped in oppression and hatred, I don't see it as a variant of negro at all. I couldn't give a shit if other black people are happy to call themselves as such, I can only speak for myself.

 

[Coalhada]

Yeah, a key thing here is that the N word originated as a slur. "Yid" was appropriated into being one, from being a common term used among Jewish communities into the late 20th century. "Yid" was, and really should be, value-neutral like, for example, "Irish".

(FYI I am technically Irish. Got the passport. You know.)
I've heard "Irish" used as a slur, as well as more often not. (In a parallel universe: "Spurs fans are all Irish!" "Yes, we are. And?"*) Of course that's not quite equivalent, since the respectful use of "Yid" was historically almost always within the Jewish community. Regardless, at some point "Yid" was lost as a positive or neutral term in everyday use.

"Reclaiming" the Y word is closer to reclaiming "Irish" than to doing the same for the N word, but not by a lot.
However, the fact that the Y word is (almost) only a slur today - and the Yid Army idea explicitly derives from that usage - is what makes it for limited use only, as someone described further up.

* And then the Chelsea fans imitate potatoes or something. I haven't thought this through.

 

[Audere]

I thought Yid was derived from the name of the language. Yiddish?

 

[Éperons]

I thought Yid was derived from the name of the language. Yiddish?

I don't see that etymology is terribly germane, but yes.:

Please note the quotations to see the semantic drift Coalhada describes. In the 1870s it's a term Jews use for each other. By the 1970s, Malamud (a Canadian novelist) is using it pejoratively.