"Yid" chanting...

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Yid chants, offensive?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 7.8%
  • No

    Votes: 317 92.2%

  • Total voters
    344
So the Simon Wiesenthal center has published a list over the worlds biggest anti-Semites.
Nr 4 on the list is ''European (soccer) fans''

''the problem of anti-semitic abuse at soccer matches which until
recently has been limited to eastern europe, has been revived in western europe. the most serious situation has been a resurgence of anti-semitic chanting toward one particular team, tottenham hotspur, which is based in a traditionally Jewish section of london. in a recent match against a rival west ham united, sections of its fans chanted, [COLOR=rgb(55.800000%, 6.400000%, 7.500000%)]“adolf hitler’s coming for you” [/COLOR]and [COLOR=rgb(55.800000%, 6.400000%, 7.500000%)]“you’re getting gassed in the morning” [/COLOR]and making hissing noises like the sound of a gas chamber. a reporter for the Telegraph said, “we are not talking about a few isolated crooners here.a significant proportion of west ham’s travelling support participated.“ Because tottenham has the largest Jewish fan base in england, it has long been the target of anti-semitism—so much so that the fans have adopted the slurs “yid” and “yiddo” as a way of deflecting abuse. ''

http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/{54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277}/TT_2012_2.PDF
 
Here are two simple phrases:

"You dirty stinking tight-fisted Jew"
and
"Yid Army!"

Is ANYONE in their right mind able to provide an argument to explain how the phrase WITH the word Yid in it, is somehow MORE offensive or anti-Semitic than the phrase without the word, or for that matter ANY swear word in it?

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!
 
I was having a look at some of the comments on John Crace's Guardian article and found something from that rarest of things, a sensible Woolwich fan, which hits the nail on the head for me:
This is probably the best thing an Woolwich fan has ever written. Well put. Still a cunt:kaboul:
 
I'm not Jewish but I am proud of our Jewish fans and the links between Spurs and London's Jewish community. Our Jewish support base is part of what makes us who we are (Tottenham) and is part of the culture of the club. I would say the same thing for the multicultural nature of our fanbase in general. I am also proud that we have experienced very few internal problems with racism, that an organisation called "Spurs against the Nazis" existed, that we managed to chase the National Front off our terraces, unlike other London clubs.

Baddiel says, "the semiotic underneath the chant (yid) is: "We are so proud of being Spurs fans, we'll even embrace being called Yids, of all things, if it identifies us with the club"". I disagree. To me the semiotic underneath the chant is "we don't give a fuck if you call us yids, we are proud of our Jewish fans and our non-Jewish fans alike". I think Baddiel is likely reading some sort of patronising or insulting meaning to the chant due to his dislike of Spurs...and perhaps (if we are to psychoanalyse him!) also due- on a deeper level- to his conflicting emotions towards supporting a club such as Chelsea, with their racist and fascist elements amongst the fanbase.

I don't have time for Baddiel or Herbert. It's not their call to make. I do have time for any Jewish Spurs fan though, and their take on it. I respect all the views I've read here from Jewish Spurs fans, whether pro or anti 'yid'. I think ultimately it is up to them, and if a majority of Jewish Spurs fans wanted it to stop then I'd like to think I would stop singing it out of respect for them. As far as I am aware, the majority of Jewish Spurs fans are happy with the Y word and how it is used amongst Spurs fans. For this reason I will continue to use it. However, I would welcome a more in depth study into the matter.

This may seem harsh as those who are offended or who do not like it will be forced to suffer in silence. However, I think that we can't ban a word or song based on the odd person being offended, because I think the atmosphere as a whole would really suffer; as others have said in this thread, almost anything could be banned. Seeing as 'yid' is an important part of the culture of the club, seeing that it tells a story of anti-fascism which is uniquely Tottenham, seeing the evidence that its use is welcomed by lots of Jewish fans, as well as lots of non-Jewish fans...the only thing that would change my mind would be evidence that a majority of Jewish Spurs fans would like it to stop.

Having said all that, I would also say that it is a sensitive, complicated issue (much more complicated than many people think, including Herbert and Baddiel) and I may be wrong. But the above is my own opinion, at this point in time.
 
FA to stop 'yid chanting' - Statement form their web side

The FA is committed to promoting equality and inclusion in football and to confronting and eliminating discrimination of every kind.

The FA appreciates that language is a complex issue: the use and meaning of words is constantly evolving. This means that, over time, sometimes neutral words or phrases can come to be understood as offensive; and, similarly, words or phrases previously considered as offensive can become more acceptable.

The FA also appreciates the difference between the use of language in the private and public sphere. Whilst someone may be free to use the language of his or her choice at home, the same is not the case when he or she does so publicly.

As the governing body of football, it is The FA’s duty to enforce the Laws of the Game and to send out clear messages about what is and what is not acceptable language within the context of football.

The term ‘Yid’

Although the term derives from the Yiddish word for a Jew, its use in the English language has been, both historically and in contemporary use, derogatory and offensive.

It is noted that many minority communities have sought to reclaim historic terms of abuse such as this as a means of empowerment. The process of empowerment through reclaiming language is complex and can often divide opinion within the same community.

In light of the historic and contemporary use of the term, The FA considers that the use of the term ‘Yid’ is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer.

Use of the term by football fans

The FA is aware that there are sections of fans at certain clubs who describe themselves using the term, or variants of the term, ‘Yid’. Those fans claim that use of the term is a ‘badge of honour’ and is not intended to be offensive.

Nevertheless, its use is still liable to cause offence to others, whether Jewish or not.

Also, by using the term in this manner, fans may be clouding the issue by making it harder to differentiate its use by these fans and by those who use the term in an intentionally offensive manner.

Further, use of the term in a public setting could amount to a criminal offence, and leave those fans liable to prosecution and potentially a lengthy Football Banning Order. Summary

Summary

The FA considers that for the betterment of the game, rules on acceptable behaviour and language need to be simple, understandable and applicable to all people at all levels of the game.

As such, The FA considers that the use of the term ‘Yid’ is likely to be considered offensive by the reasonable observer and considers the term to be inappropriate in a football setting.

The FA would encourage fans to avoid using it in any situation.


Read more at http://www.thefa.com/News/governanc...n-position-on-y-word.aspx#tf71QtAr1hVmjMyL.99
 
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The double standards from the FA are staggering.

Moving to ban a word as they don't know who is using it in a derogatory fashion despite it coming loud and clear from one set of fans followed by the word "army" as a badge of honour, yet deem it ok to allow other fanbases to bang on about Hitler, gassing Jews, Auschwitz etc without punishment and even commend the clubs involved for their action when they ban a solitary person.

I guess badges of honour are confusing but chanting about killing people from an ethnic group is just "bants"
 
It's interesting how the FA finds the word Yid such an easy subject to deal with and yet doesn't seem to know where to begin with hissing, for example, isn't it?
 
Oh-oh... THISSSSSSS again!

The end of this bit made my little Yiddish eyes pop out on their little Yiddish stalks;

Use of the term by football fans
The FA is aware that there are sections of fans at certain clubs who describe themselves using the term, or variants of the term, ‘Yid’. Those fans claim that use of the term is a ‘badge of honour’ and is not intended to be offensive.
Also, by using the term in this manner, fans may be clouding the issue by making it harder to differentiate its use by these fans and by those who use the term in an intentionally offensive manner.

SERIOUSLY?? You telling me you can't tell the difference between when it is being used as a 'Badge of honour' and when it is being spat out at us by vicious anti-Semitic scum...?
Here's a clue; when the word "Yid" is accompanied by HISSING AND REFERENCES TO HITLER, it's usually a bad thing...
When it is sung proudly and loudly, by a group of football fans who are of mixed ethnicity and religions, yet are merely supporting their club, then it probably isn't intended to be offensive!

Oh, and now 'Can't Smile Without You' is on the radio... IT'S A SIGN, FROM THE MANILOW HIMSELF!
 
Guys, it's fairly obvious to everyone including the FA that some rival fans aren't hissing, they're telling us to be quiet, enforcing the FA's rules. Now ssshh
 
Yid in any way, shape or form is not Racist.

How can it be possible to be racist at a group of people who are not one ethnicity?

Religious Hatred? Maybe.

Not however in the way Spurs fans use it. Still cannot see why it would offend anyone in the context that it's used by our fans.
 
Yid in any way, shape or form is not Racist.

How can it be possible to be racist at a group of people who are not one ethnicity?

Religious Hatred? Maybe.

Not however in the way Spurs fans use it. Still cannot see why it would offend anyone in the context that it's used by our fans.
Not entirely true. The majority of Jews still hail from a Semitic background. Only those who are mixed like myself or converts are likely to the the exception, and are a minority.

I support the FA's statement since I personally do not like the word, don't use it as know that my family members have found it offensive. It does seem to me mostly offensive in the older Jewish generations than the younger ones and for more while there are a considerable number of Jews alive who find it offensive I will not use the word. I'm pretty sure my more detailed reasons can be found earlier in this thread.

Having said that, if the FA is going to highlight this then I hope considerable efforts will be put in to target fans at clubs like Chelsea who routinely come out with particularly offensive anti-Semitic chants because the police certainly don't seem to have a grip on it.
 
Fuck em all, fuck em all
The league, The FA and Baddiel
We're not the racists, it's usually our guests
No we're not the racists, go bother the rest

And repeat...
 
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