Will we win trophies with Pochettino? (Read thread before voting)

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Will we win trophies with Poch as our manager!

  • Yes

    Votes: 71 67.6%

  • No

    Votes: 34 32.4%
  • Total voters
    105
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Darnswim said:
United got lucky that in that season the competition was shit. I mean, Celta Vigo in semis? Really? Have fun trying to win the Europa now with Napoli, Inter and Sevilla around...
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You are talking as if this was a few decades ago instead of 2 years ago. Napoli, Inter and Sevilla should not be considered better than us anyway. Also we were in the europa league as well in that year. Cups do have an element of luck which is why we actually have a chance. Even fucking chavs with their shit season came close to winning it.
 
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Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Also, if winning the Europa League is seen as better than qualifying for the Champions League in the eyes of teams across Europe, managers, players and chairman alike, why do we not see teams going all out to finish 3rd in their Champions League groups rather than being long shot outsiders for the Champions League?

Teams like Napoli, Porto, Roma, Borussia Dortmund, Lyon etc all seem to value 2nd place and outsiders for the premier tournament over being made favourites in the lesser competition. Funny that, I thought it was only Spurs that seemingly lacked ambition
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This is weird. Your are saying why teams dont deliberately lose to get into europa league? Because losing is for losers, just like being happy with 3rd instead of winning something. No one likes to be a loser except losers.
 
adasai said:
You are talking as if this was a few decades ago instead of 2 years ago. Napoli, Inter and Sevilla should not be considered better than us anyway. Also we were in the europa league as well in that year. Cups do have an element of luck which is why we actually have a chance. Even fucking chavs with their shit season came close to winning it.

Winning a league is almost impossible for us. So im not particularly bothered about the 'title races' we inevitably fail in.
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See to me mate your last line is more loser mentality than us not looking to seek a domestic cup and a quick shot in the arm. Without targeting League glory long term the club will fall into mid table mediocrity instead of continued growth.

As you know, I'm all about the long term and striving for the pinnacle of it all. The focus should always be to win the League and the Champions League not because it's realistic but because it installs a winners mentality into the group be it this batch or the next one. Aim high and all that jazz but know it can't happen over night with a with offfield irons in the fire that we're juggling.

The relief this club will feel when it's firmly settled back into the nexpw stadium will be such a weight off of its shoulders but ultimately it needs time
 
adasai said:
This is weird. Your are saying why teams dont deliberately lose to get into europa league? Because losing is for losers, just like being happy with 3rd instead of winning something. No one likes to be a loser except losers.
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You said you'd rather win the Europa League than quality for the Champions League correct? My point was if the way we think is abnormal why don't teams purposely finish 3rd in their group to stand a greater chance of winning a trophy rather than finishing 2nd in their group leaving them with far smaller chances of winning something come the end of the season?

CL & PL is where it's at brother, and we can only compete in each year in year out if we finish in the top 4 hence it's ultimate importance to the manager and the money men
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
See to me mate your last line is more loser mentality than us not looking to seek a domestic cup and a quick shot in the arm. Without targeting League glory long term the club will fall into mid table mediocrity instead of continued growth.

As you know, I'm all about the long term and striving for the pinnacle of it all. The focus should always be to win the League and the Champions League not because it's realistic but because it installs a winners mentality into the group be it this batch or the next one. Aim high and all that jazz but know it can't happen over night with a with offfield irons in the fire that we're juggling.

The relief this club will feel when it's firmly settled back into the nexpw stadium will be such a weight off of its shoulders but ultimately it needs time
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But league glory is not happening or some years. So it doesnt bother me when we fail at it. There are hopes but almost zero expectations there. We just dont have what it takes to win the league. Im not getting upset over unrealistic targets.

But we can achieve other realistic targets, ie. the cups because they do involve an element of luck and clubs like ours should be winning them. Also which good footballer would think I want to go to a club which aims not to win anything but be content with finishing in the top 4 and waste a few years of my life achieving fuck all. Only someone who is interested in the money or someone for whom this is as good as it gets.
 
The Hood said:
Taken from another forum but I think this is a very interesting point. As I have said before I think Pochettino is the most overrated coach in the game at the moment and his mentor is arguably the most overrated manager of the last 15 years. Neither actually win anything and yet are held in the highest regard.
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Thank God he's off the grid
No more of this negativity for a while,
 
adasai said:
But league glory is not happening or some years. So it doesnt bother me when we fail at it. There are hopes but almost zero expectations there. We just dont have what it takes to win the league. Im not getting upset over unrealistic targets.

But we can achieve other realistic targets, ie. the cups because they do involve an element of luck and clubs like ours should be winning them. Also which good footballer would think I want to go to a club which aims not to win anything but be content with finishing in the top 4 and waste a few years of my life achieving fuck all. Only someone who is interested in the money or someone for whom this is as good as it gets.
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We have shown reasonable ambition in the cups though. 4 semi finals and a final in four years, all of which were lost against teams who were the favourites with the bookies going into those games. Have we come up short in them? Absolutely but even when we lost to the likes of Gent etc we played pretty much a strong team.

We talk about bedding in the likes of KWP on one side of the coin and on the other it's seen as a lack of ambition. We currently have a window of financial opportunity to clear the clubs debts maybe half a decade earlier than we had forecasted whilst keeping a nucleus of tried and tested top 4 quality intact. If the manager needs reinforcements in the summer look at the plus side, the club will have twice as much as it has ringfenced due to our prudency over the last year or so. Our,scouts would have had an extra year to analyse prospective signings and we've been able to tie down hugely important assets like Dele, Kane & Son on 5 year+ deals, as well as the manager that has taken those steps with the club.

It's a project that requires the club to grow in pretty much every aspect from training ground through to brand, stature, finances and following which is unlike the projects being carried out at clubs such as Chelsea, Liverpool, Juventus even who have much of what they need in place. Klopp who has been at Liverpool nearly as long as Pochettino has been with the club still has no trophies to show for his time there but I think it's clear to see they've grown as a club. That's without a new stadium being required, a new training ground and academy philosophy to integrate into the club, a bigger need for a larger fan base etc.

I get what you're saying, I really do but how I see it is if you have a team and squad equipped for a top 4 finish, you definitely have a squad capable of winning a domestic cup. Unfortunately it just hasn't happened for us but we keep pushing on, keep evolving and inevitably one will come. Top 4 equates for roughly 25% of the clubs income, that's huge when it's considered as an income not expected with the project plan Pochettino had when he joined the club. I think our over achievements in that department has altered the goals and targets we set out to get. Keep achieving more than envisaged as it's a quicker route to the end goal etc.

Our yearly objectives, as with the other top teams in the league are as follows:

Objective number 1 - qualify for the Champions League

Objective number 2 - challenge for the title

Objective number 3 - have a good run in the Champions League

Objective 4 - try and win a domestic cup

The modern game sees players with one full season under their belt, a prospect being valued at £50m. Juan Foyth had played 5-6 games at professional level and cost us £10m-£11m. Football has gone insane with money and a golden ticket of £100m that top 4 can give you turns the £2m or whatever the Carabao Cup brings with it into a modern day laughing stock. It gets you glory yes but it doesn't impact long term success like the dollar we currently get does, having to pay extortionate fees and wages to keep your gems sweet in a short career and window to look after your families futures etc.

I'd love a cup, I really would but at this moment in time and for the next season or two I'd still take a top 4 finish at the start of the season competing against big teams like Chelsea, Woolwich and Man U rather than throw that for a day out at Wembley and an open top bus parade. Maybe my stance will change in time but I see the logistic importance of priotising it as a goal for the time for the time being
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
This isn’t a knee jerk thread, I want to make that completely clear, I do not want Poch to leave this football club (at least not in the near future anyway) but this is something that has been playing on my mind now since the end of last season.

The question is simple, whilst Poch is in charge of this football club, do you think we will win a trophy?

This isn’t a debate about if he is good enough to win a trophy, I am simply asking the question, do you believe we will win a trophy whilst he is our manager?

If yes, then why do you believe so? And what do you think needs to happen in order for him to do so?

If no, why do you believe so? And what is the solution for us long term to win a trophy if Pochettino cannot accomplish it?

I am genuinely interested in everyone’s opinion on this because we are now many years into the project and I am curious to know what people think the next step is for us and how we are going to achieve it.

Before I stop writing I will give my opinion so you all know where I stand.

I think Poch has certain weaknesses as a manager but I don’t think those weaknesses would stop him winning a trophy with us, I think he is constantly trying to learn but needs improvements in some areas (game management, tactical flexibility and more mind games with officials and media) I don’t ever see him being a serial winner with us but I certainly do see us winning a trophy under his management.

The hard truth imo is that, he needs new players in order to do so, I think he has taken this group of players as far as he possibly can as a manager and unless we get a massive slice of luck and win the CL I think in order for him to win a trophy with us, he will need fresh legs and better quality in certain positions.

That’s my opinion, basically, he needs backing this summer and the squad needs a lot of improvement, the key players I would keep here are...

1. Kane
2. Son
3. Vertonghen
4. Toby
5. Sanchez
6. Rose
7. Eriksen
8. Alli
9. Dier
10. Winks
11. Lloris


The rest, as far as I am concerned, are replaceable and could be improved.

So, what’s everyone else’s opinion?
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Poch is good enough to win trophies, the players are good enough to win trophies, i.e the FA cup, the league cup. Will we win those trophies? I don't know, I'd love us to win but I don't think it matters to the club or Poch. Champions league qualification is seen as a trophy these days. We're definitely not good enough to win it or the league but then I don't believe anyone expects him too.
The solution is one that nobody wants and is not realistic, change the rules back to the old European cup where only the winners qualify.
 
adasai said:
You are talking as if this was a few decades ago instead of 2 years ago. Napoli, Inter and Sevilla should not be considered better than us anyway. Also we were in the europa league as well in that year. Cups do have an element of luck which is why we actually have a chance. Even fucking chavs with their shit season came close to winning it.
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Do you think that we took that competiton seriously in 2017? We got eliminated by Gent ffs, who ended up finishing 3rd or 4th in the Belgian League. There is no way that a club that finished 2nd in the Premier League got outplayed by a team that barely finished in the top 4 in the Jupiler League (or whatever it's called). And I am certainly ot calling any on Napoli, Inter or Sevilla better than us. We had Inter in our Group this year and completely played them off the park in both games, and we were VERY unfourtunate to lose at Giuseppe Meazza.
 
Of course we can! We just need to be playing well, have an element of good fortune and the luck of the draw.
There are a lot of good teams domestically who can all beat each other on their day as we have shown we can beat and compete with the best on our day. We play very well at lot of time but it is rare for a team to play very well all of the time.
Being good gets us past a lot of teams but luck, good fortune, players hitting form at the right time gets us past the best.
 
If we keep this core group of players together I imagine we may have a slight advantage in games at Wembley for the next few years
 
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