What the hell is going on behind the scenes in regards to contracts and our players?

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Apparently he was due to sign a new deal, and when they went to take photos Poch didnt put his arm round him.He was already fuming as the chocolate biscuits Daniel provided were Aldi and not the usual Waitrose, so he walked out .Hence the fall out...
#intheknow...
 

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Apparently he was due to sign a new deal, and when they went to take photos Poch didnt put his arm round him.He was already fuming as the chocolate biscuits Daniel provided were Aldi and not the usual Waitrose, so he walked out .Hence the fall out...
#intheknow...
They had no Danish pastries either...
 
Maybe Poch spoke to Jan beforehand and said that, as it was 'only' Aston Villa', he wanted to give Davy some game time and that he would only need one person for defensive cover, and that would be Eric. If things were bad between Poch and Jan, surely Jan would have been 'sick' and not shown up at the game.
Obviously, this theory would come undone if he is not playing against Citeh.
It will all come out in the wash, no doubt.
I am not doubting that theory is a possibility, it does seem weird that Jan was present, you would think if an issue existed, he wouldn't even be there.

That being said, I doubt if he has an issue that it's with Poch, it would likely be with the person writing the contracts and if that is the case, I think he would still turn up to support the team and manager, for all we know he could be sitting out in protest, or like you say, it could be nothing whatsoever.

My biggest concern is us losing our best players however, that's the crux of the issue and the one that I am becoming more concerned about.

I don't like the fact we have numerous players nearly out of contract and now Jan being completely dropped seemingly out of nowhere when he looked like a nailed on starter during pre-season and hasn't even made the bench, less than a week after him discussing his contract in the press and how he wants to stay at spurs, timing just seems weird to me and it wasn't helped by how Poch responded to the questions about why he wasn't playing, didn't seem genuine at all to me.
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Apparently he was due to sign a new deal, and when they went to take photos Poch didnt put his arm round him.He was already fuming as the chocolate biscuits Daniel provided were Aldi and not the usual Waitrose, so he walked out .Hence the fall out...
#intheknow...
Apparently it was a complete mix up with the biscuits...Poch said he liked to dunk and Jan thought he meant the player and "saw his arse"

"To see your arse" : A Welsh phrase meaning.........to become miffed/upset/annoyed :thumbup:
 
No apparent reason that you can fathom, lets get it straight here. Its not "no apparent reason whatsoever", it's no apparent reason that you could possibly conceive of. Obviously there are many possible reasons, but with City away next week, I give you the obvious one. As for Sky and "everyone else in the footballing world", you'll find that most are media and its the medias job to make stuff up.



There's more than 6-7 who disagree with you. Maybe only 6-7 who will bother to take the time to engage with you anymore, but most others can see the futility of going over the same thing again and again.



By "running their contracts down", you mean they are not signing new contracts and are deliberately refusing transfers in order to leave on a free in the future? Because they're not, are they? So it's not quite a fact is it? Yes, they will both be out of contract soon, that's a fact, your sensationalist hyperbole isn't fact.



Poch is saving Jan for City away, he's sitting wrapped in proverbial cotton wool in the stands. It's as fair an assumption as any you have made, except without drama. Why does it have to be the sky falling down every time the manager makes a decision you don't understand? I'm sure you love the club and are worried about losing our best players, and as someone who was a vocal advocate of Levy backing Poch in the transfer market, you should understand that buying new players means other players leave. Ok, losing them on a free isn't best practice but I'm certain Levy is a lot more pissed off than you about it!



Ok.

No. I've been proved wrong on many an occasion. I've also been right on many. like this one.
No logical reason for leaving our second best CB out of the team for the first game of the season when he isn't injured? Unless of course he is indeed being rested for City but can you not see why people are concerned when we have all the other issues with players nearly out of contract and now a player that is a constant in our side has suddenly been dropped and not even made the bench a mere week after discussing contracts in the press?

I just seems suspect to me and many others.

I was simply saying it's always the same 6-7 posters calling anyone who disagrees with their opinions "melts" or "negative" it's like arguing with religious people who don't want their religion questioned with these individuals, the inability to critically think about things is a sign of complete idiocy as far as I am concerned.

I would rather be wrong and know that I have considered all possibilities than outright dismiss others opinions because I am so deeply embedded in my own bias I can't get my head out of my arse for 5 seconds to consider if I could possibly be wrong, you say it's more than 6-7 that disagree with me, that's fine, I accept that some people don't even bother engaging but you pretending your opinion is any more relevant than mine is self delusion I am afraid, you know just as much as I, or anyone else here does, fuck all.

You're right, he could be wrapping Jan up in cotton wool and I could be wrong but why do you consider my opinion to be drama and your opinion to hold more relevance because you consider it to be the "positive way" to look at things?

The reason I am coming to the conclusions I am is because of numerous factors

- Jan has never been dropped unless it has involved injury in the entire time he has been at this club under Poch and even during rotation he has made the bench, that in itself is incredibly suspicious, even more so considering the amount of time he played preseason and how hyped he was on social media about playing the first game.

-Poch answering questions about his absence seemed disingenous and like he wasn't giving a straight answer (using Serge Aurier as an example of how we need to rotate to be fair to the squad and how he only puts players in who he thinks deserves the game time is a prime example of why I believe there is something more to this, unless of course they think Aurier would get in ahead of Verts.)

- All this happening after Eriksen and Toby contract issues, it having the same feeling of when Toby was dropped before for those issues and a week after Verts saying he wants to stay with the club and sign a new contract all are red flags for me.

Now I realise this is all guesswork on my behalf and all assumptions, I could be completely wrong and probably am but I am just struggling to comprehend why you believe my line of questioning is "negative" or is me assuming the "sky is falling down" simply because I came to a different conclusion to you when assessing the situation?

I mean, was "the sky falling down" when I suggested in the match day thread we would go on to win the game against Villa after equalizing? Or was that me making a positive observation based on how our performance levels had improved?

This is the problem with the black and white thinking some posters here indulge in, they believe they have to stick to a "side" and that "side" is infallible and never wrong, that's a truly pathetic way of viewing things in life and a sad way of approaching a debate on an open forum.

You say "I have been proved wrong on many occasions" well that makes two of us and there is nothing wrong with that, to err is to be human after all.

But then you go on and say "I have been right on many, like this one" that is pure arrogance and shows that actually, the only individual here between me and you that believes they are right is you because I have never claimed to be right in my assesment whatsoever, I offered my opinion, I am not claiming it's accurate or calling people names if they disagree with it.

However, when people come into a thread and essentially say "You're negative because my opinion is the right one" what does that say about them?
 

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On the topic of defenders getting wage parity with Kane: That's not gonna happen. Defenders don't have wage parity with strikers. Strikers are overall paid more than defenders across the league and in Europe. Strikers are generally more high profile and thus attract more attention and can demand a higher salary.

There's a reason that it is usually Ronaldo, Neymar and Messi on the cover of Fifa. And not Ramos, Chiellini and Vidic. Ramos are the notable exceptions to this rule active right now. Even VVD is on less than Salah and Mane at Liverpool.

Toby was offered a 130k base contract two years ago. And that is very good for a defender. And Jan is most likely on that if not more after his last extension last season.

You're not gonna find a defender on 200 grand a week guaranteed unless his name is Sergio Ramos.
That's fair and a well reasoned argument, I looked into wages that defenders earn in the PL and was quite surprised at how low their pay was (lol I say low but all these footballers are overpaid as fuck but you know what I mean) in comparison to midfielders and strikers.

So you're right, £130k does seem a reasonable sum, that being said however, when considering the wages of a player you also have to consider their value to the club, the service they have given us and the level of importance they bring.

I would argue that Jan and Toby are just as important as Kane for the overall team.

Top tier defenders are not easy to come by these days, if they were then the teams around us would have far better options available to them.

So, I do believe in these circumstances maybe paying them a little bit more on a shorter term contract because of their age is a pretty reasonable thing to do whilst we look for suitable replacements, that way we can maintain our level of quality and keep our current players (who have been great servants for the club) happy.
 
You ask the question and then supply the answer ... it's all about age

Pay Eriksen 250k a week on a 5 year contract that costs 60m ... however in three years he will still be worth >80m in the transfer marker, so we could sell (44m profit) or let him see out his contract - that's good business if Eriksen accepts it.

I'm guessing the levels hear ... but

Pay Jan 10m (190k) for an extra year when he's worth nothing at the end of it ... will he accept that? So far the answer has been no ...
Pay Toby 20m (190k) for an extra two years when he's worth nothing at the end of it ... will he accept that? So far the answer has been no ...

Would either deal be good business? As good as both Jan and Toby are at their age 50 games a season simply isn't happening ... much as we all love Toby and Jan another 12 months when their present contracts end and it will probably be time for the youngsters to step up, or for us to sign quality replacements

Like you I'd love them to stay but all players reach the end at some point, father time gets us all ....
I actually really appreciate the well thought out response here so thank you.

I accept what you are saying about Eriksen and I agree.

I do think however it would be good business for the club to pay Jan and Toby that as, like I said in the post above this one, their value to the club is worth it, especially over a shorter term contract.

I don't think we have in our ranks currently the defensive quality that would make up for losing those two, hence why I think it's imperative that we do whatever it takes to keep them short term whilst we find true replacements of the same quality.

Losing Jan and Toby would see us drop out of the champions league spots imo, as would losing Eriksen (unless Lo Celso hits the ground running but that's a big gamble.)

Jan and Toby are not players we can currently replace with the same level of quality, even with their age becoming an issue over the next few years, hence why I think we need to do whatever needs doing to keep them, also, they have been great servants to the club, especially Jan and I don't see the issue with rewarding that, especially when he wants to stay and loves the club.

I get that it comes to an end sooner or later but I don't think that time is right now personally.
 

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That's fair and a well reasoned argument, I looked into wages that defenders earn in the PL and was quite surprised at how low their pay was (lol I say low but all these footballers are overpaid as fuck but you know what I mean) in comparison to midfielders and strikers.

So you're right, £130k does seem a reasonable sum, that being said however, when considering the wages of a player you also have to consider their value to the club, the service they have given us and the level of importance they bring.

I would argue that Jan and Toby are just as important as Kane for the overall team.

Top tier defenders are not easy to come by these days, if they were then the teams around us would have far better options available to them.

So, I do believe in these circumstances maybe paying them a little bit more on a shorter term contract because of their age is a pretty reasonable thing to do whilst we look for suitable replacements, that way we can maintain our level of quality and keep our current players (who have been great servants for the club) happy.
That's where the bonus structure comes in. We generally pay very generous and very achievable bonuses to our players based off of training and stuff like games played, started, clean sheets (probably a key one for defenders), goals scored (I think Kane earned like 2 grand per goal or something like that back in 16-17), assists etc. This is also a model employed by Manchester City now. Since it helps you avoid a Alexis Sanchez situation where you have a senior player not delivering but still earning 350 grand a week guaranteed. At least with this structure they have to work to get the maximum out of their pay envelope.

I personally don't think that it is a matter of money in any negotiation between the club and the two Belgians. I think it is more a matter of contract length. At the very least with Jan who is getting on in years. The only top club in the league that seems willing to give long term deals to senior (30 and above) players is Man U, the rest of us seem to take it year by year.

Eriksen is a different situation since with it seems like he just wants his move to Spain that he has had planned out since he started as a pro (he and his agent has talked about how they made a career plan for him when they linked up which included a move to Spain when he was around 27-28).
 
Why do some people always have to manufacture problems just to have a fucking whinge. Nobody on here has a fucking clue whether there is an issue or not, so why make one up just to have a go.

Pathetic behaviour, to be honest. But I expect no less from certain posters on here.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Nobody is manufacturing anything, it's an opinion and it's based on all the reasons I have already repeated, you disagreeing doesn't make you right.

Like you said, "nobody has a clue if there is an issue or NOT" not being the keyword in that sentence, does that mean people should stop others saying "There isn't an issue, move along here" no, does it fuck, they are entitled to think everything is fine and others are entitled to think there may be an issue.

People are allowed to discuss things, it's a forum, that's the whole purpose of it, not to just reinforce what you believe.

But by all means, keep calling people pathetic and shitting up every thread complaining about other posters opinions whilst never adding to the discussion and trying to take a moral highground because you don't like "negativity" whilst telling them to kill themselves and calling them gooners over a football opinion...
 
Nobody is manufacturing anything, it's an opinion and it's based on all the reasons I have already repeated, you disagreeing doesn't make you right.

Like you said, "nobody has a clue if there is an issue or NOT" not being the keyword in that sentencr, does that mean people should stop others saying "There isn't an issue, move along here" no, does it fuck, they are entitled to think everything is fine and others are entitled to think there may be an issue.

People are allowed to discuss things, it's a forum, that's the whole purpose of it, not to just reinforce what you believe.

But by all means, keep calling people pathetic and shitting up every thread complaining about other posters opinions whilst never adding to the discussion and trying to take a moral highground because you don't like "negativity" whilst telling them to kill themselves and calling them gooners over a football opinion...
Yes, you ARE manufacturing something.

You have ZERO proof there is anything wrong behind the scenes, just because Jan didn't play. It's bullshit speculation based on nothing, and you're using it because all you do is post negative, whiny thoughts.

Now...if proof DID come out that there were behind the scenes issues with Jan and Poch, then absolutely no problem with you moaning about it.

But stop looking for fucking bullshit reasons to suit your own negative mindset and agenda. It's boring, and you're wasting your time, my time and everyone else's time.

I don't even know why you say you support spurs...you clearly don't get anything from it, you joyless individual.

Don't bother replying. Honestly, I've got better things to do than listen to so called "spurs fans" moaning, and moaning, and moaning, and moaning, without a shred of evidence to back their shit up.

Give it a rest for the love of all that is good and holy in this world.

:dembelefingers:
 
Yes, you ARE manufacturing something.

You have ZERO proof there is anything wrong behind the scenes, just because Jan didn't play. It's bullshit speculation based on nothing, and you're using it because all you do is post negative, whiny thoughts.

Now...if proof DID come out that there were behind the scenes issues with Jan and Poch, then absolutely no problem with you moaning about it.

But stop looking for fucking bullshit reasons to suit your own negative mindset and agenda. It's boring, and you're wasting your time, my time and everyone else's time.

I don't even know why you say you support spurs...you clearly don't get anything from it, you joyless individual.

Don't bother replying. Honestly, I've got better things to do than listen to so called "spurs fans" moaning, and moaning, and moaning, and moaning, without a shred of evidence to back their shit up.

Give it a rest for the love of all that is good and holy in this world.

:dembelefingers:
And you have zero proof that everything is ok, you know as much as I do, fuck all.

And it isn't "speculation based on nothing" at all, I have already shown why I am speculating on it...
- Jan has never been dropped unless it has involved injury in the entire time he has been at this club under Poch and even during rotation he has made the bench, that in itself is incredibly suspicious, even more so considering the amount of time he played preseason and how hyped he was on social media about playing the first game.

-Poch answering questions about his absence seemed disingenous and like he wasn't giving a straight answer (using Serge Aurier as an example of how we need to rotate to be fair to the squad and how he only puts players in who he thinks deserves the game time is a prime example of why I believe there is something more to this, unless of course they think Aurier would get in ahead of Verts.)

- All this happening after Eriksen and Toby contract issues, it having the same feeling of when Toby was dropped before for those issues and a week after Verts saying he wants to stay with the club and sign a new contract all are red flags for me.
Right there^

I am also not being "negative and whiny" I am showing concern because I love my football club and am worried about us potentially losing our best players and regressing, why would I be "looking for reasons" to think that? It wouldn't be productive whatsoever, I have weighed up the options and considering what I wrote above it just seems highly unlikely to me he was dropped for rotation purposes, that doesn't make me right in my assumption but it also doesn't mean I am looking for negatives.

That seems the most reasonable conclusion to me, we differ in opinion on it and that's fine but it doesn't mean you are right or that I am right and it doesn't make you a better supporter than me just because you have come to a different conclusion and I take plenty of joy from supporting this club for the past 30 years, even during the shittiest of times.

I don't have an agenda either, I view every single subject with an open mind, it's ironic though that you would say I have an agenda when you go around disliking every single post, even unrelated to football from other posters just because you don't like their opinions and call everyone you disagree with "negative" that seems pretty agenda driven to me.

But by all means, continue, I am sure it won't be long before you tell me to kill myself again, the amount of times you have been binned you would think you would have had some self-reflection by now but clearly not.
 
And you have zero proof that everything is ok, you know as much as I do, fuck all.

And it isn't "speculation based on nothing" at all, I have already shown why I am speculating on it...


Right there^

I am also not being "negative and whiny" I am showing concern because I love my football club and am worried about us potentially losing our best players and regressing, why would I be "looking for reasons" to think that? It wouldn't be productive whatsoever, I have weighed up the options and considering what I wrote above it just seems highly unlikely to me he was dropped for rotation purposes, that doesn't make me right in my assumption but it also doesn't mean I am looking for negatives.

That seems the most reasonable conclusion to me, we differ in opinion on it and that's fine but it doesn't mean you are right or that I am right and it doesn't make you a better supporter than me just because you have come to a different conclusion and I take plenty of joy from supporting this club for the past 30 years, even during the shittiest of times.

I don't have an agenda either, I view every single subject with an open mind, it's ironic though that you would say I have an agenda when you go around disliking every single post, even unrelated to football from other posters just because you don't like their opinions and call everyone you disagree with "negative that seems pretty agenda driven to me.

But by all means, continue, I am sure it won't be long before you tell me to kill myself again, the amount of times you have been binned you would think you would have had some self-reflection by now but clearly not.
Amount of times I've been binned?

I've been binned three times since joining in 2014. And none of these binnings were longer than 2 weeks, so you'll forgive me for laughing at your idiotic comment about 'self reflection'.

Don't worry young 'un, one day, if you learn your lessons, you'll be a popular poster, like me!

I tell you what though... I'll "self-reflect" when you stop making up unevidenced bullshit to suit your own negative mindset.

Until you start posting sensibly, don't expect to be taken seriously on here. It's quite astonishing the amount of posters who are laughing at you, and I don't want that for you, fella. I'd like you to learn from your past mistakes, and grow as a poster and a person.

I'll even mentor you if you like!

No ragrets.

:adethumbup:
 
Amount of times I've been binned?

I've been binned three times since joining in 2014. And none of these binnings were longer than 2 weeks, so you'll forgive me for laughing at your idiotic comment about 'self reflection'.

Don't worry young 'un, one day, if you learn your lessons, you'll be a popular poster, like me!

I tell you what though... I'll "self-reflect" when you stop making up unevidenced bullshit to suit your own negative mindset.

Until you start posting sensibly, don't expect to be taken seriously on here. It's quite astonishing the amount of posters who are laughing at you, and I don't want that for you, fella. I'd like you to learn from your past mistakes, and grow as a poster and a person.

I'll even mentor you if you like!

No ragrets.

:adethumbup:
You have been binned twice in the last two months, one of which was you telling me to kill myself so forgive me if I don't take your wise and sage advice on matters, I prefer not to take life advice from people who wish death upon others for footballing opinions.


Also, in regards to the bolded, what you actually mean is until I start posting opinions you agree with I won't be taken seriously by YOU on here, right?

Well, not being taken seriously by you isn't going to keep me awake at night so I am pretty fine with that.

Also, just so you know, I would rather be laughed at by every single person on this forum for being wrong about things but know I have tried to at least have an open mind than be closed minded and project my own insecurities on to others any day of the week, twice on Sunday.
 
You have been binned twice in the last two months, one of which was you telling me to kill myself so forgive me if I don't take your wise and sage advice on matters, I prefer not to take life advice from people who wish death upon others for footballing opinions.


Also, just so you know, I would rather be laughed at by every single person on this forum for being wrong about things but know I have tried to at least have an open mind than be closed minded and project my own insecurities on to others any day of the week, twice on Sunday.
Yes twice in the last two months, and three times in total since 2014. Your point?

And stop whinging about a few words on the internet. There's nothing open minded about you. You're a negative cesspool of nonsense, and I don't consider you to be a spurs fan.

Now, I tell you what I will do. I will do us both a favour, and put you on ignore. You can't stand me, and I have no respect for you. At least this way, I won't have to read your nonsense, subsequently won't feel the need to respond to it, and you'll stop crying like a bitch because some guy on the internet said nasty things to you.

Good night, and god bless! :levylol:
 
Yes twice in the last two months, and three times in total since 2014. Your point?

And stop whinging about a few words on the internet. There's nothing open minded about you. You're a negative cesspool of nonsense, and I don't consider you to be a spurs fan.

Now, I tell you what I will do. I will do us both a favour, and put you on ignore. You can't stand me, and I have no respect for you. At least this way, I won't have to read your nonsense, subsequently won't feel the need to respond to it, and you'll stop crying like a bitch because some guy on the internet said nasty things to you.

Good night, and god bless! :levylol:
There you go again, calling people "Not spurs fans" because you don't like their opinions, as predictable as ever, you can consider me whatever the fuck you want to consider me, I know what I am, I think I have poured enough time and money into this club to know what I am, your opinion means nothing.

I actually had you on ignore already, took you off because I thought you might have grown up a little bit clearly not if you consider telling someone to kill themselves just "a few words on the internet."

I never said I can't stand you either, me calling you out for shit behaviour doesn't mean I have a personal dislike towards you, I don't even have a problem with your opinions, I only put you on ignore in the first place because of that disgusting comment you made.

But yeah, putting me on ignore is probably for the best if you have no self control whatsoever and can't resist shitting up threads calling everyone names because you don't agree with them.
 

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Incomplete_usernam Incomplete_usernam what is your day job? Also, I for one prefer people to get to the point without having to type 2000 words per post.
I am a teacher, not that it should make any difference whatsoever and there is a reason I use a forum and not social media for this sort of discussion, if I wanted short form discussion I would be on Twitter.

I am also aware that I could be more concise but most of the posts that aren't concise involve me arguing with the same 6-7 posters about them calling other posters negative for having a different opinion to them.
 
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