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Match We can be HEROES Barca Spurs 11/12/2018

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by paddygspur, 28 Nov 2018.

  1. ArcspacE

    BINNED AGAIN

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    Liverpool is a top tier club on the European stage though and have experience including winning it 5 times - they are an elite European club. Last year it also showed although they had a much easier draw than in 2005.

    I also think Poche is not a very good knock-out manager which doesn't bother me much but I do think he's improving every year and we're very close now. Point remains - much higher chance of winning the EL and the CL.
     
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  2. FOK

    FOK

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    Have they?! God. I just wish they’d mention it a bit more
     
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  3. spursmalc

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    What do you think the Media's reaction will be if we get through by beating Barcelona? A fantastic result or they only won because certain players were missing, Barcelona did not play well because they were already top of the group etc.
    I really expect the latter and no credit at all.
     
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  4. palmers_green_yid

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    I do wonder whether that kind of thing is valid; yes Liverpool had won it four times before when they did it in 2005, but that was back when they were a truly excellent side that dominated England. None of the playing staff, and AFAIK none of the backroom staff, were the same. It may make some difference, because the players maybe expect to win it more based on the club's history, but I don't think it makes a huge difference.

    This group of players/manager have made bad errors in knockout stages, and have perhaps struggled under the pressure before. However, all this will have contributed to their- no longer inconsiderable- experience of playing at the top level and crucially I think we can all agree this is a group that do believe in themselves and their ability to win things.

    Yes we have more chance of winning the EL (even then the fact we probably wouldn't take it seriously levels out the odds a bit- we have underperformed massively in the EL for this reason) and obviously even if we get through winning the CL is a massive long-shot, but I think it's within the realms of possibility, and far more likely than winning the league this season. Personally I'd rather get through and give the CL a shot. After all, it's what we get for all the hard work done in the league every season, so it makes sense to make it a priority, particularly when there is pretty much zero chance of winning the league.
     
  5. OffTheBench

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    #45 OffTheBench, 30 Nov 2018
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2018
    We have a better chance of winning the Premier league than the champions league, even if we beat Barcelona. That seems pretty obvious to me.

    Man City are probably winning the PL, but whoever wins the CL will still have to get past them, plus all or any of Real, Barcelona, PSG, Juventus and Bayern.
     
  6. mouse

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    Don't care. I'll be going fucking mental.

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. paddygspur

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    The champions league is easier to win although fucking difficult.

    The league is always won by the best team in the country. The CL winner is often not the best team in Europe.
     
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  8. OffTheBench

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    Given we are one game from being knocked out this season, and have never won it, or even progressed beyond the quarters, I'd disagree. Will be worth checking the odds after the Barca game if we are still in it.
     
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  9. paddygspur

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    Agreed mine was a more general point.
     
  10. OffTheBench

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    Fair enough. Let's just agree we should be winning the bloody lot.
     
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  11. paddygspur

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    The treble

    :llorishowudoin:
     
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  12. Totti

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    This.

    Knockout tournaments are a matter of luck. You win the league on being the best over 38 games. Considering you COULD miss out all the difficult teams and then play a one off final, I'd say the Champions League is easier to win though that doesn't make it easy.
     
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  13. OffTheBench

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    Not really. Unless you're VERY lucky (Chelsea?) in both the draw, and the matches. And VERY lucky hardly ever happens.

    The league has more games, but at least 24 of those are against objectively much worse (and poorer) teams. The knockout rounds of the CL are two legged, making lucky results almost unheard of.

    Real Madrid, the world's richest club, has won 4 of the last 5 tournaments. The Champions League is entirely designed to funnel the biggest handful of richest most dominant clubs to the semis. If you're not in that club, there's almost no chance any more. Any of the PL Top 6 can win the league any season, it just takes a good run and the others to fall away. We have been agonisingly close recently, yet never get anywhere near the CL final.

    The odds back this up. Ignoring Spurs because we're halfway out the door:

    Man City: PL odds: 2/9 CL odds:7/2
    Liverpool: PL: 4/1 CL: 14/1
     
  14. Clynelish

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    Also depends on the season, City are still miles ahead of us (make no mistake), which makes it close to impossible to finish above them over the course of 38 matches. A bit of luck in the draw and a couple of good matches and you could be already in the semi-finals of the CL.
     
  15. Totti

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    Odds to win means nothing. There's no favourite to win the Champions League. And usually those hailed as 'favourites' by the bookies never win it.

    I bet Liverpools odds to reach the final last year were pretty high. Yet they got there through luck of the draw. Besides City (whos number they have most of the time anyway) they played no one good until the final. And then their luck ran out. Salah getting injured etc. - bloody hell, even Madrid were lucky to get to the final last season.

    Cup tournaments are ALWAYS luck. That's why they're so liked. That's why City don't win the domestic cups every season and why the double is so hard to win.

    Man Utd dominated English football for near on 20 years. They won the double four times. Why is that? You'd think if they can dominate the league they should have no problem in the cups..
     
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  16. Spursdem

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    Bingo.

    It makes no difference. Just because Phil Neal has won 4 European Cups doesn't mean that's going to elevate Andy Robertson in a Champion's League tie.
     
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  17. OffTheBench

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    Odds are based detailed analysis by companies with millions on the line, so mean a lot more than you suggest. Obviously nothing's certain, that's why betting exists.

    Also don't conflate the chance of something lucky/ unlikely happening somewhere in the cup, with the chance of something lucky happening to one club. If the CL was so unpredictable then Real wouldn't have won it 4/5 years.
     
  18. Totti

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    Real Madrid winning it 4 out of 5 years was unpredictable though.

    Before them, not a single team in 20+ years had retained it, let alone won it three years on the bounce. They also got a luck on the way. Funnily enough, they've only won the league once in the last six years.

    They may have won it 4 out of the last 5 years yet they're STILL not favourites to win it again. Why is that? You'd think a team so dominant would be favourite. The reason? Because anyone could win that competition. Who are the favourites anyway? I imagine Barcelona (because of Messi), Man City (because of their squad) and perhaps Juventus (because of Ronaldo) ?
     
  19. Mrs Perryman

    I'm a Cockney Malteser

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    What do you reckon the odds on that would be? :)
     
  20. Reidy

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    I guess a total long shot, probably 10000/1

    I mean the Goonies in a cup final?? Not a hope.
     
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