Tottenham Hotspur v Burnley (7/12/19) (3pm)

[Sean]

Just in case there weren't ENOUGH highlights from yesterday... the reception Aaron Lennon got was true class... yes, we were 4-0 up at the time (and let's face it, had we been 0-1 the reception may have been different) but I'd like to think that after all the problems he's had, the 'Welcome home' he received made him feel truly one of us.... 'cos that's how it was intended.

...and as for the applause on 12 mins for Harley Watson.... don't even get me started!

Sheer, unadulterated class.

It's a shame they didn't put it on the screens

 

[bus-conductor]

Mourinho did not keep asking Pogba to play in a two, Pogba started the 2017/2018 season in a two with Matic and was playing well, United, were scoring three of four goals per a game, Pogba got injured some time in September.

When Pogba came back in Dec 2017, Pogba started playing up as the papers and pundits alike kept barking on that Pogba can only play on the left of the three, when the truth be told both Allegri and Conte tried Pogba on the left of a three in a 4-3-3 and it effected the balance of their team so they both went back to the tried and tested 3-5-2, with Pogba starting postion as a central mdifielder, drifting out left.

This power play between Pogba and Mourinho continued till the end of the season, Jose actually played Pogba in a three in the midddle of Jan 2018, and Pogba was no better in his application or work rate.

Jose continued to play Pogba in three and sometimes a two thru Feb, until the champions league resumed, and if you cast your mind back to the incident of Jose and Pogba argueing on the touchline, as Pogba was not following the managers instructions, Jose tried to discipline Pogba, and as a result had to field Fellani in the middle of the park against Sevilla.

The truth is Pogba thinks he is a Messi or Zidane, and when challenged about his work rate, his response was nobody questions Messi work rate,

Pogba skillset is not that of a 10, hence the reason why he always gets disposed so often, whether in a two or three.

Pogba is not quick enough in the head to play the role of a 10 role in the mould of an inform Ozil,Isco or our very own Dele Ali, Pogba does not move about enough to create space or options, Pogba’s pressing is also half hearted.

Pogba needs time and space to play his equisite passess, so playing him deeper makes sense, where he can see the full spectrum of the pitch.

If you think this last statement is false, ask yourself, if he went to Real Madrid, where would he play in that team, I would say he would be tasked with replaciing one of Modric or Kroos, who both contribute to the defensive aspect of the team, Modric, more so than Kroos.

Sheesh. Mick Cooper’s gonna love you.

Surely all the above affirms what I said, not contradicts it. Pogba needs to be in a CM3 to get the best out of him, with a strong busy fucker 6 to do the grafting and another 8 or 6+1/2 (as Mourinho calls them in there too.

You do realise that even in Conte’s 352 he was effectively still playing as the L8 in a CM3 system - which again affirms what I am saying.

I’m not saying Mourinho never played him as a L8 in a CM3, he did, often (and against us) but he also often asked him to play in the CM2 as a 6/8 which just does not suit him best. He's having to do more of the defensive stuff he's not so good at and less of the offensive stuff he is good at. Last season for example Mourinho used a 433 approximately 15 times.

And I agree, if he went to Real Madrid I think they would play him as a L8 in a CM3.


I did not say he should play 10?

As for your comment on yesterdays game, there is nothing wrong with getting an early lead and seeing out games, it actually teaches you about building character, focusing on the task at hand, and being confident and assured that no matter what life ‘football’ throws at you, you can cope.

Even Jurgen Klopp has taken leafs out of Mourinho’s book of tactics, building on a strong defence, confident that the team can see out games, look at what he done to us in the Champions league final, killed the game, to win the trophy,something that Pep has failed to learn and could have been 5 nil down against Man U, last night in the 1st half, by neglecting the defensive side of the game and Pep can’t understand how his team has 20 plus chances and still lose or draw.

I didn’t criticise what we did yesterday, I applauded it? Pointing out that it was very Mourinho (at his best).

Alot of people want us to play a 4-3-3, but that would shunt Ali to the wide forward role or a deeper role, where the game would hamper his strength, also people have been banging on about Le Celso, whose best position is the attacking midfield centre role, in which Ali currenly occupies, Jose wants his attacking wide men, starting position to be closer to the touch line.

Yes we could opt for the 4-3-1-2 role if needed, thus accomadating Ndombele alongside a ball winner and deep lying or central playmaker, with Son alongside Kane, meaning the purchase of Le Celso would be seen as redundant, as would the services of Lamela,Sess and Moura. If we choose or decide to opt for the 4-3-1-2 formation, we would need full backs who can defend, aswell as support attacks if and when required.

Hopefully Ndombele will make the grade, he has the skillset, his passing will improve, as this is one of his strong suits, but this is the premier league, and if you are tasked to ply your trade in the midfield then you have to be a good tackler and reader of the game, or simply focus on just reading the flow of the game, making interceptions,tackling now and then.

Firstly, I don't think Lo Celso's best as a ACM, I think he's best as an 8 where he played mostly for PSG (and where he plays for Argentina) he's a good combination of work rate, tenacity and vision of passing. He can play as an ACM or inverted ARM, but I prefer him as an L8 in a CM3. So playing 4312 doesn't necessarily render Lo Celso moribund. But it does cause other problems.

Secondly, it's not Ndombele's passing that has to improve, it's already better than any CM we've had in recent years (in terms of it's incisiveness) it's all the other facets around it that need to up a gear. He needs to be a bit more dynamic in this league, but I think if we played him in a CM3 with a proper busy 6 next to him, that would mitigate his deficiencies somewhat.

To accommodate Alli we need to play him in that 10 (almost second striker) role he's playing now. But that means, as you say a 4231 or a 4312. But then in the 4312 we don't see the best of Son (who is definitely best more as a wide forward or inverted ALM) or Kane who is best operating as the fulcrum 9 on his own, without another striker taking up his oxygen.

If we play 433, then Alli either plays as an 8 or as one of the wide forwards, but he lacks the composure to be a truly good 8 and he lacks the dynamism to be great in the wide attacking roles.

Personally, as good as he's been recently, if I had to make a sacrifice, I'd sacrifice Alli and play a 433, because IMO it would be more conducive and easier to work consistently than trying to find two CM's that excel at the all round skill set you need to play CM2 systems well. And we all know no matter how good Alli is, there will always be some bumbling compromise with him - as we saw yesterday when he contrived to bumble away a simple 2 v 1 with the score at 2-0 (which could have been the difference between clinching the game or not).

And in Ndombele and Lo Celso we have two 8's with real creative vision. With Son we have one of the leagues's best wide forwards. It should be easier to find a good 6, than two 6/8 hybrids to play the Cm2.

 

[JonathanLA]

Hey - I found this on You Tube. It's much better to watch all of this with the Burnley commentary....make sure to listen to the color commentator's "Oh, my God!" during Sonny's goal....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COIGsRMo-lY&t=53s&fbclid=IwAR1SC7m-qsGcV4uaz6cvhcH09fXzpqTjVaoYpAI8hTtdBYguveyh7rAYpuc

 

[Spaniel]

That has to be one of the best performances, if not the best, for Spurs for a year or more.

And imo, a lot of it was down to the players not being tired, and really up for it - and lasting for 90 minutes at a fairly high tempo throughout. Probably nobody epitomised that more than Kane who like the team had his best performance for a year or more.

There's been a number of comments that Poch's training sessions were brutal and might well have been the underlying reason why the players have looked tired during games and we haven't always lasted for more than 60 or 70 minutes.

I'd guess that Mourhino has reduced down the intensity of training and the Burnley game is the first where we have seen the results - players looking fresh.

Hopefully most of this team will be rested for the dead rubber on Wednesday, and that in turn will mean that the team will be more refreshed and ready for the remaining 22 PL games and maybe 10 cup games (CL and FA Cup). Its still early days for Mourhino but if he can continue to refine training, rotate players to rest them whilst perhaps introducing some of the other players who we haven't seem too much of who will play on Wednesday, we may find Mourhino has breathed new life into the existing squad that can turn the season round.

Maybe add one or two players in January too.

The future could still be Lilywhite !

Yep. Both likely will be right ahead of us. Let's shoulder past the wolves and breath right down Chelsea's neck.

I see the wolves game as absolutely critical. Get an away win and our confidence will make Chelscum a lot easier. Lose and not only do our top 4 chances fade a little more but more importantly, it might affect their confidence. I'm hoping realistically for 1-2 or 1-3. I think we can do this and then onwards and upwards. There's still time if we use that great overall performance against Burnley, a notoriously difficult and awkward side as a springboard. Top four, here we come.
COYS.

 

[Mick Cooper]

A piece of individual magic but I remember a similar goal of Sonny a couple of years back, at Wembley when he ran all the way down the right side and we were yelling at him to pass it (thinking it was going to be taken off him) but he ran on and scored.
My memory is crap, but wasn’t that against Real?

Chelsea

 

[Spursidol]

I feel pretty much the same, but to be fair, NDombele was injured yesterday.

I don’t want to watch midfieldless football either, and Mourinho does have some worrying penchants in his back catalogue. He does love a midfield unit. Ok when they can play a bit of football too (Matic, Motta, Khadeira etc) but ours (Dier, Sissoko) can’t.

I do worry that if Mourinho can’t see past a CM2 system then it’s worrying times for NDombele, who could just about do it in Ligue1, with a busy cunt like Tousart next to him, but will find it hard going in this league, just as someone like Pogba looked half the player when Mourinho kept asking him to play in his CM2 4231.

What’s been worrying until yesterday is how, despite picking fairly non footballing midfields, we’d been failing to shut games down, even after we’d had them well won. At least we did that.

That game yesterday was very formula Mourinho - he likes his teams to exert early, get ahead, then shell and counter.

I like that Mourinho has immediately identified some areas of tactical weakness and has made subtle but shrewd changes to strengthen them.

We are no longer exposing both FB’s at the same time. He has the pace of Sanchez covering the flank that he is exposing. Moura, when starting, is no longer being used centrally and getting under Kane’s feet, Son as the wide forward cutting in but also working harder without the ball than he’s ever done. Alli is back as a false 10/9 hybrid, getting on the end of things instead of fucking up the beginning of things.

Now, if we could just find a Makelele to balance off NDombele and Lo Celso we might be contenders....

Moutino has been told Dier has Scottish ancestry and his real name is MacDierle.....close enough ?

 

[White Van Jan]

Not really similar, but you are probably talking about (also watch David Luiz!) :

In each he doesn't set off at 100mph. Against Chavs, he actually checks back, which gives Jorginho the chance to draw level and then slow down. But then he puts on the afterburners and leaves him behind because Jorg doesn't have anything like Son's acceleration.

On Saturday he only starts sprinting once the 2 Burnley strikers have almost reached him.

Don't know whether it was intentional but it was bloody effective.

 

[Tottenham Sean]

It's a shame they didn't put it on the screens

Agreed.Many(myself included) didn't realise what it was for.

 

[Mariner]

We’re all happy today

 

[ArtyB]