Toby Alderweireld

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When you look at the amount of games where we had a weaker CM and DM to what we are used to, the amount of individual errors that led to goals against (I think we had over a dozen that led to goals conceded last season when racking them all up), how wasteful we were infront of goal and how we struggled to score goals only being able to play Dele, Eriksen, Son and Kane in 10 or so out of the 55-58 games played its obvious that our games lost or goals conceded isn't down to Toby or Jan losing their legs, it's more to do with other variables not taken on face value.

We lost a lot of goals chasing games (Wolves at home. Burnley away, Southampton away etc) and if we have been more lethal and ruthless in front of goal those games would have been won before they were lost. For me all areas of our game led to issues of goals conceded and games lost last year, not just our defensive players as you've highlited. A regular DM, fatigue, deflated because they lost out on WC glory, no home stadium, a lack to being able to rotate properly the wholeness thing felt flat. Hopefully with an actual summer off and some chill time with their families all of our lads will come back focused and withna spring in their step.
Glad you mention Burnley away, a game where Toby was at fault in both goals. Part of this new Toby I called out since the turn of the year. The two goals were down to the exact weaknesses Toby has developed. Winning headers in our box and this dropping off an attacker trying to force them down the outside.

Toby 2019 is not even close to Toby 2016.
 

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Alferweireld pre injury would have been snapped up for 40 million within an hour of the transfer window opening.

He ain't going to be better at 30 so unlike Eriksen his options are much less attractive.
 
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Glad you mention Burnley away, a game where Toby was at fault in both goals. Part of this new Toby I called out since the turn of the year. The two goals were down to the exact weaknesses Toby has developed. Winning headers in our box and this dropping off an attacker trying to force them down the outside.

Toby 2019 is not even close to Toby 2016.
Interesting viewpoint, I'll have to track down the highlights of that game as my memory of the build up to both goals is lacking.

Based on last season though we could argue that the Rose, Vertonghen, Wanyama, Dier, Dele, Eriksen & Kane of 2016 weren't as good as those that turned out for us in 2019 so do we ship those guys out as well?

Opinions and all of that but I still think that if what is being reported is true that Roma want to pay us c£10m for him, inwould rather keep Toby for another year and risk losing him on a free. Value for money wise I don't know enough about other defenders in the market but Toby and his experience being £10m I think is a poor deal to be had and would rather see him stay, whereby doing so he'd still end up being first choice alongside Jan next season. That's how I see it based on the development levels of Sanchez and Foyth last year although things do always change.
 

Ginolaflair

BLEEDER OF BLUE & WHITE
He'll stay...end of. No club is more attractive to him than ours and doesn't seem like people are breaking walls to get to him so my money is onhim staying...
 
I'll take this. No way would I be happy with the rumours chump change they were dangling in front of us. What a liberty offering €12m for Toby if true.

Keep him if nobody triggers his release clause, get another years worth out of him knowing it massively increases our chances for success next season. £25m or Toby stays.
It's not just the chump change they were offering us (assuming they were ever interested), it's the fact that they were rumored to be offering Toby a £3.5m/year contract, which is less than he is making with us. I mean, come on...
 

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I'll take this. No way would I be happy with the rumours chump change they were dangling in front of us. What a liberty offering €12m for Toby if true.

Keep him if nobody triggers his release clause, get another years worth out of him knowing it massively increases our chances for success next season. £25m or Toby stays.
Laughable that any club/media outlet thinks they can negotiate on the €25m buyout.

If he sold, and I can't make up my mind if we are OK to sell him or not, would be required to pay it in full in one lump and then, of course, pay him more than the £145k per week he turned down with us. This rules out a lot of clubs I think.
 
Laughable that any club/media outlet thinks they can negotiate on the €25m buyout.

If he sold, and I can't make up my mind if we are OK to sell him or not, would be required to pay it in full in one lump and then, of course, pay him more than the £145k per week he turned down with us. This rules out a lot of clubs I think.
But his agent will get a pay day if he moves?

I won't claim to know the intricacies of transfers, but isn't there something like - the remainder (or part of) his contract is paid out by Spurs, 'signing on fees' which are more like staggered payments rather than a lump sum on contract commencement to be paid up, and a new set of 'signing on' or 'loyalty bonuses' to be setup by his new club?

Unless he were to hand in a formal transfer request, in which case he forfeits his loyalty bonuses or contract remainder?

Fucked if I know. I'm sure lots of people have very convincing ideas on how it works exactly.

And although we had been slated for years for our low basic salary structure (when Toby signed his deal?) we also dish out some of the fattest bonuses, including appearance fees - which for a pay rise would also have to be met.
I wonder if dropping him for most a season was partly to hurt his bank balance - given it seemed 'all about money' from the outside.
 
But his agent will get a pay day if he moves?

I won't claim to know the intricacies of transfers, but isn't there something like - the remainder (or part of) his contract is paid out by Spurs, 'signing on fees' which are more like staggered payments rather than a lump sum on contract commencement to be paid up, and a new set of 'signing on' or 'loyalty bonuses' to be setup by his new club?

Unless he were to hand in a formal transfer request, in which case he forfeits his loyalty bonuses or contract remainder?

Fucked if I know. I'm sure lots of people have very convincing ideas on how it works exactly.

And although we had been slated for years for our low basic salary structure (when Toby signed his deal?) we also dish out some of the fattest bonuses, including appearance fees - which for a pay rise would also have to be met.
I wonder if dropping him for most a season was partly to hurt his bank balance - given it seemed 'all about money' from the outside.
Having a non-negotiable release clause sounds like a preset transfer request to me, i.e. Spurs don't need to compensate him for anything.
 
Having a non-negotiable release clause sounds like a preset transfer request to me, i.e. Spurs don't need to compensate him for anything.
I imagine that's purely down to how the contract is drawn up. Maybe there's a generally accepted norm, but a contract can say anything.
Wasn't the clause only activated due to us triggering a 1 year extension? In which case, is it not 'Tottenhams failure to negotiate a new deal' given he actually signed for a year less or something?
 
But his agent will get a pay day if he moves?

I won't claim to know the intricacies of transfers, but isn't there something like - the remainder (or part of) his contract is paid out by Spurs, 'signing on fees' which are more like staggered payments rather than a lump sum on contract commencement to be paid up, and a new set of 'signing on' or 'loyalty bonuses' to be setup by his new club?

Unless he were to hand in a formal transfer request, in which case he forfeits his loyalty bonuses or contract remainder?

Fucked if I know. I'm sure lots of people have very convincing ideas on how it works exactly.

And although we had been slated for years for our low basic salary structure (when Toby signed his deal?) we also dish out some of the fattest bonuses, including appearance fees - which for a pay rise would also have to be met.
I wonder if dropping him for most a season was partly to hurt his bank balance - given it seemed 'all about money' from the outside.
I don't have a clue on the in's and out's of his deal. But the reported structure of it as it stands is fascinating as it really isn't obvious as to what will happen, there are so many scenarios to account for. I can see him stay and then go next year on a free. I can see him getting a new contract with us, more money but probably LESS than we offred him previously (less basic, shorter-term too). I can see a mega-rich Club going "ah fuck it, he's good and we need cover, whatever just pay it". I can see any PL Club come in for him but that wouldn't interest the player as such. But whoever wants to sign him will need to stump up the rubles to match his wage demands.

The one thing that I have zero issues with and that's Toby's attitude on match day, I don't think he had his best season last year, especially early part (hardly anyone did?) but from January onwards is form picked up and he was great until the end of the season but throughout all this time and every preceding year when he puts on our shirt he plays for it.
 
I don't have a clue on the in's and out's of his deal. But the reported structure of it as it stands is fascinating as it really isn't obvious as to what will happen, there are so many scenarios to account for. I can see him stay and then go next year on a free. I can see him getting a new contract with us, more money but probably LESS than we offred him previously (less basic, shorter-term too). I can see a mega-rich Club going "ah fuck it, he's good and we need cover, whatever just pay it". I can see any PL Club come in for him but that wouldn't interest the player as such. But whoever wants to sign him will need to stump up the rubles to match his wage demands.

The one thing that I have zero issues with and that's Toby's attitude on match day, I don't think he had his best season last year, especially early part (hardly anyone did?) but from January onwards is form picked up and he was great until the end of the season but throughout all this time and every preceding year when he puts on our shirt he plays for it.
Yeah model professional. On and off the field. The kind of guy you want around the club.
 
Interesting viewpoint, I'll have to track down the highlights of that game as my memory of the build up to both goals is lacking.

Based on last season though we could argue that the Rose, Vertonghen, Wanyama, Dier, Dele, Eriksen & Kane of 2016 weren't as good as those that turned out for us in 2019 so do we ship those guys out as well?

Opinions and all of that but I still think that if what is being reported is true that Roma want to pay us c£10m for him, inwould rather keep Toby for another year and risk losing him on a free. Value for money wise I don't know enough about other defenders in the market but Toby and his experience being £10m I think is a poor deal to be had and would rather see him stay, whereby doing so he'd still end up being first choice alongside Jan next season. That's how I see it based on the development levels of Sanchez and Foyth last year although things do always change.
I'm wondering how much his injury affected him, because his whole defensive style has changed. Or has Poch changed it for the team's benefit, that actually doesn't benefit the team.

The two goals I mentioned against Burnley, the first, Foyth lost his man, but Toby was the spare man. He simply never got off the ground. If you look at the photos on the internet you'll see you could barely get a cigarette paper under him. The second, he gave their player 5 yards of space inside our penalty area and was turned trying to force him down the outside. He miss hit the shot and went straight to their player who scored.

Both goals pointed to a certain limitation in movement that has crept into his game. In all honesty, how often did he win an important defensive header in our penalty area all last season. Less than the other CHs I'd hazard a guess.
 

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Still, this release clause is bollocks for us.

It leaves us vulnerable to last minute bids, where we can neither reject offers nor have any chance to sign a replacement.

The extension is purely asset managment.

We should be signing his replacement RIGHT now and be planning for a season altogether without him.
 
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