Toby Alderweireld

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I think there are some opinions that are off here.

First, the idea that we are better off keeping Toby for another year and losing him for nothing than losing him for 25 million pounds now. This is probably wrong. Toby is a very good CB, and I hate to lose him, but I'm not sure he's worth a 25 million pounds (plus wages) one year loan. Especially given we have Sanchez, who is certainly not at Toby's level yet but at least can step in and do a job.

In fact, if it were really the case that Toby is worth paying an extra 25 million pounds for a one year loan, we would have just met his contract demands. We'd get him for several years for probably the same total price.

Toby staying for another year and then leaving for nothing is the worst case scenario.

Second, if he does stay for next year without a new contract, I don't see how that means he's not our starting CB. He's been nothing but professional. And he has all the incentive in the world to play at a high level since he's trying to impress teams so he'll get as big a contract as possible at the end of the season.

Third, just because Toby isn't already off doesn't mean he's made a mistake. It's quite possible that teams have come in for him and he has just refused because he thinks he'll get higher wages if he runs his contract out completely, saving whatever team he goes to 25 million pounds. Now if he has a bad season or gets a career ending injury or something, then yes, this will have turned out badly for him. That's why running your contract down is a gamble. But we are yet to see whether this gamble pays off for him or not. He's still a high quality CB who is not THAT old. I have to think somebody will pay him very good wages at the end of the season barring a bad season/bad injury.

Unfortunately for Spurs, this is playing out very poorly for us. I guess there's still faint hope we sign him to a contract extension, but it seems pretty unlikely.

You stand alone sir in talking sense on this matter.

Some posters are simply dim.
 
There's something odd about this whole situation to me tbh.

They need a centre back bad. I can see a situation where they meet the release clause then offer him 200k plus pw. I don't fully trust that he would reject it.

You think they can spend £200k a week on a defender??

And spend over half their transfer budget on a player out of contract in a year?

I think the days of them signing players on big wages have gone for a little while. Especially 29 year old CBs with dodgy hamstrings.
 
I think there are some opinions that are off here.

First, the idea that we are better off keeping Toby for another year and losing him for nothing than losing him for 25 million pounds now. This is probably wrong. Toby is a very good CB, and I hate to lose him, but I'm not sure he's worth a 25 million pounds (plus wages) one year loan. Especially given we have Sanchez, who is certainly not at Toby's level yet but at least can step in and do a job.

In fact, if it were really the case that Toby is worth paying an extra 25 million pounds for a one year loan, we would have just met his contract demands. We'd get him for several years for probably the same total price.

Toby staying for another year and then leaving for nothing is the worst case scenario.

Second, if he does stay for next year without a new contract, I don't see how that means he's not our starting CB. He's been nothing but professional. And he has all the incentive in the world to play at a high level since he's trying to impress teams so he'll get as big a contract as possible at the end of the season.

Third, just because Toby isn't already off doesn't mean he's made a mistake. It's quite possible that teams have come in for him and he has just refused because he thinks he'll get higher wages if he runs his contract out completely, saving whatever team he goes to 25 million pounds. Now if he has a bad season or gets a career ending injury or something, then yes, this will have turned out badly for him. That's why running your contract down is a gamble. But we are yet to see whether this gamble pays off for him or not. He's still a high quality CB who is not THAT old. I have to think somebody will pay him very good wages at the end of the season barring a bad season/bad injury.

Unfortunately for Spurs, this is playing out very poorly for us. I guess there's still faint hope we sign him to a contract extension, but it seems pretty unlikely.

That £25m is strange. Personally think it deters buyers as like you say - is he actually worth £25m for 1 year, especially when he wants such high wages.

Will be very surprised if he goes. But who knows, transfer windows can be full of surprises.
 
There's something odd about this whole situation to me tbh.

They need a centre back bad. I can see a situation where they meet the release clause then offer him 200k plus pw. I don't fully trust that he would reject it.

Where is "scared and sad" reaction when you need one?!!?

I mean it seems somewhat plausible. And scary.
 

Alderweireld has an escape clause of 30 million, expiring on July 25th. Roma intends to wait and then take it at a lower figure, around 12 million, given that the player is 30 years old and is due to expire in 2020.
The Belgian earns about 4 million, but a three-year deal would convince him to a cut. The inclusion of Zaniolo in the negotiation would also help.
That could instead accept the transfer to Juventus. And here the question is combined with that of Higuain, on which Rome is serious.
 

Alderweireld has an escape clause of 30 million, expiring on July 25th. Roma intends to wait and then take it at a lower figure, around 12 million, given that the player is 30 years old and is due to expire in 2020.
The Belgian earns about 4 million, but a three-year deal would convince him to a cut. The inclusion of Zaniolo in the negotiation would also help.
That could instead accept the transfer to Juventus. And here the question is combined with that of Higuain, on which Rome is serious.

The issue is his £25m release clause and this article reckons Roma think they can get him for €12m? No thanks I'd rather keep him for a season and then lose him on a free knowing that having Toby in our team we have a far greater chance of Top 4 and a good cup run yet again.
 
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The issue is his £25m release clause and this article reckons Roma thonkntheyncan get him for €12m? No thanks I'd rather keep him for a season and then lose him on a free knowing that having Toby in our team we have a far greater chance of Top 4 and a good cup run yet again.
Toby won't be in our team. There is utterly no advantage playing in essence a loan player with no desire to play for the club. Sanchez will be playing.

Also we don't need Toby or Belgium starting a shit stirring session next February should Toby not be getting a game.
 
Toby won't be in our team. There is utterly no advantage playing in essence a loan player with no desire to play for the club. Sanchez will be playing.

Also we don't need Toby or Belgium starting a shit stirring session next February should Toby not be getting a game.

Is that the same Toby who started pretty much every game last season? The one who has been in a standoff with us contractually for what is rumoured to be about two years now? If Toby stays he'll play an important part next season, just like he did last season after plenty of rumours of a move last year as well.
 
Is that the same Toby who started pretty much every game last season? The one who has been in a standoff with us contractually for what is rumoured to be about two years now? If Toby stays he'll play an important part next season, just like he did last season after plenty of rumours of a move last year as well.
Yep that's the Toby who went whinging to the Belgium boss that he wasn't getting game time and his World cup place was in threat.

He was very average by his standards last season.
 
The issue is his £25m release clause and this article reckons Roma thonkntheyncan get him for €12m? No thanks I'd rather keep him for a season and then lose him on a free knowing that having Toby in our team we have a far greater chance of Top 4 and a good cup run yet again.

Absolutely. One season of Toby is worth 12M

There is utterly no advantage playing in essence a loan player with no desire to play for the club.

 
Yep that's the Toby who went whinging to the Belgium boss that he wasn't getting game time and his World cup place was in threat.

He was very average by his standards last season.

He's still a far better defender than Sanchez and Foyth. Opinions and all of that but if nobody isn't prepared to pay £25m for him I'm very happy seeing us stsrtthe season with another Alderweireld Vertonghen defence.

If Roma genuinely think that they can get a 30 year old Toby for £10m or so absolutely no chance. Toby is worth far more to us based on potential bonus money achieved in top 4 pursuits and Champions League money than that.
 
Yep that's the Toby who went whinging to the Belgium boss that he wasn't getting game time and his World cup place was in threat.

He was very average by his standards last season.
Might be.
But by his standards Sanchez season was around as good as Toby's... While Toby was 16...and playing after drinking 3 pints of beer.

Comparison should be player against player (during the same season) first and foremost. And there was no competition. If you check Poches decisions, it totally complies with this stance.

IF Toby stays then this player will play who is better coming season man against man. It might be that Sanchez will up his game and play Toby out of starting XI. And it might be vice versa. But it will be decided on the basis of performances not by contract situation. Exactly like past season.
 
Might be.
But by his standards Sanchez season was around as good as Toby's... While Toby was 16...and playing after drinking 3 pints of beer.

Comparison should be player against player (during the same season) first and foremost. And there was no competition. If you check Poches decisions, it totally complies with this stance.

IF Toby stays then this player will play who is better coming season man against man. It might be that Sanchez will up his game and play Toby out of starting XI. And it might be vice versa. But it will be decided on the basis of performances not by contract situation. Exactly like past season.

There is only one place in the team for Toby, sweeper in a back three. I'm assuming the injury changed his whole game, but he isn't the answer at centre half going forward or in a three man defence.
 
There is only one place in the team for Toby, sweeper in a back three. I'm assuming the injury changed his whole game, but he isn't the answer at centre half going forward or in a three man defence.

Who is then? I can't think of many defenders as good at Toby avialhle to us at the moment so do we move him on only to become a lesser team in the most competitive league in the world for that vital top 4 status?

I'd trust Toby far more than I'd trust Davinson or Juan at the moment so what do we do?
 
There is only one place in the team for Toby, sweeper in a back three. I'm assuming the injury changed his whole game, but he isn't the answer at centre half going forward or in a three man defence.

Yea well... Poch clearly disagrees with you.
And so do I.

He might not be the best CB in the world, but there is no one better in the team than Jan. And until we play more than 1 CB, he plays.

Last season was actually difficult defensively. But I seriously doubt Toby was the reason. We failed to control the midfield very often AND we did not have in form defensive midfielder (like Wanyama in debut season) as Vic seems finished and Dier was not in good form. Also our RBs had awful season. Both those things put our defenders under much more pressure than in previous seasons.

We have already strengthened CM position, and hopefully will do the same for RB as well. And then we'll see, i dare to suggest this makes a difference in terms of defenders performances as well.
 
Yea well... Poch clearly disagrees with you.
And so do I.

He might not be the best CB in the world, but there is no one better in the team than Jan. And until we play more than 1 CB, he plays.

Last season was actually difficult defensively. But I seriously doubt Toby was the reason. We failed to control the midfield very often AND we did not have in form defensive midfielder (like Wanyama in debut season) as Vic seems finished and Dier was not in good form. Also our RBs had awful season. Both those things put our defenders under much more pressure than in previous seasons.

We have already strengthened CM position, and hopefully will do the same for RB as well. And then we'll see, i dare to suggest this makes a difference in terms of defenders performances as well.

When you look at the amount of games where we had a weaker CM and DM to what we are used to, the amount of individual errors that led to goals against (I think we had over a dozen that led to goals conceded last season when racking them all up), how wasteful we were infront of goal and how we struggled to score goals only being able to play Dele, Eriksen, Son and Kane in 10 or so out of the 55-58 games played its obvious that our games lost or goals conceded isn't down to Toby or Jan losing their legs, it's more to do with other variables not taken on face value.

We lost a lot of goals chasing games (Wolves at home. Burnley away, Southampton away etc) and if we have been more lethal and ruthless in front of goal those games would have been won before they were lost. For me all areas of our game led to issues of goals conceded and games lost last year, not just our defensive players as you've highlited. A regular DM, fatigue, deflated because they lost out on WC glory, no home stadium, a lack to being able to rotate properly, chasing games late on ultimately to end up losing our shape and losing the points we seeked etc the wholeness thing felt flat. Hopefully with an actual summer off and some chill time with their families all of our lads will come back focused and with a spring in their step.
 
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Alderweireld has an escape clause of 30 million, expiring on July 25th. Roma intends to wait and then take it at a lower figure, around 12 million, given that the player is 30 years old and is due to expire in 2020.
The Belgian earns about 4 million, but a three-year deal would convince him to a cut. The inclusion of Zaniolo in the negotiation would also help.
That could instead accept the transfer to Juventus. And here the question is combined with that of Higuain, on which Rome is serious.


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