Tanguy Ndombele

[TheSpurEst]

It’s the fullbacks BC. . . Maybe if Aurier continues to show some competence and Sessegnon comes in then we may change to a 433 but at the moment I don’t see it working either to be honest.

Just like bus-conductor told - playing 4-3-3 would help with fullback issue not deepen it.
I mean, what is the logic of not playing 4-3-3 due to fullback issues?

I believe if we'd use Ndombele-Dier-Winks midfield, it could help us to control the midfield and take room off the midfielders of opposite team AND support fullbacks. Right now when we use Ndombele-Winks duo, we are pretty much overrun in midfield and this puts our defense under more pressure.

 

[pipes]

Just like bus-conductor told - playing 4-3-3 would help with fullback issue not deepen it.
I mean, what is the logic of not playing 4-3-3 due to fullback issues?

I believe if we'd use Ndombele-Dier-Winks midfield, it could help us to control the midfield and take room off the midfielders of opposite team AND support fullbacks. Right now when we use Ndombele-Winks duo, we are pretty much overrun in midfield and this puts our defense under more pressure.

Every great team of the past several years has had a shield in front of the back four. Makalele, Kante, Fernandinho, etc.

I love the idea of the old Dier playing in that role. If he can get his form back. Big if.

Alternatively, I’d consider playing Toby there. Saw Marquinhos run things for PSG in midweek and think Toby could do the same.

Would give us a strong foundation to allow the front five freedom to do what they like.

 

[Joshking5]

If we played 433 it would help with whatever FB issues we have as you have the lateral midfield cover. It's one of the reasons many of the most successful proactive coaches and teams use it, it allows them to push FB's on.

4231 with two inadequate CM's, a high line, and forwards that don't press anymore just leaves big lateral gaps, as we've seen against City, Arse and Olympiakos.

And nobody can blame Trippier for all of it any more. Gradually it will dawn that it's the structure and system, and the combination therein.

Ok fair enough, I don’t claim to be a tactical genius but I always thought that you needed fullbacks to provide the width in a 433 and with the legs to get up and down the field, that had decent defensive positioning.

Where as a 4231 the wide men of the front 4 have more emphasis to provide the width. Either way I still feel our weakness is in our individuals rather than our formation.

Something needs to change and I would love to see us give 433 a proper fucking go, with a DM whoever that may be.

Is Skipp really a DM? Does he tackle well, how is his positioning and sense of danger? I just haven’t seen enough of him and from what I have he reminds me more of a tidy winks like ball playing DM, less of a Fernandinho battle and break up play DM.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Ok fair enough, I don’t claim to be a tactical genius but I always thought that you needed fullbacks to provide the width in a 433 and with the legs to get up and down the field, that had decent defensive positioning.

Where as a 4231 the wide men of the front 4 have more emphasis to provide the width. Either way I still feel our weakness is in our individuals rather than our formation.

Something needs to change and I would love to see us give 433 a proper fucking go, with a DM whoever that may be.

Is Skipp really a DM? Does he tackle well, how is his positioning and sense of danger? I just haven’t seen enough of him and from what I have he reminds me more of a tidy winks like ball playing DM, less of a Fernandinho battle and break up play DM.

I think that depends on what side are you focusing on.

Using 4-3-3 should help to cover fullbacks on the defensive side of things, but puts more pressure on them in the attacking side. In this season (leaving Palace game aside) we have got nothing out of them in attack and they have been all over the place in defense. So maybe if in 4-3-3 they would be bit more "backed up" by midfield and could focus slightly more to attacking, we could get more out of them.

Maybe this would not work ofc. Can't know for sure. But I'd like us to try something else than waiting for a miracle with doing same thing and expecting different outcome .

 

[ArjyBarjy]

He obviously has bags of potential but looks quite shy on the ball and in games in general. I expected an authoritative kind of midfielder, maybe he will grow into that or maybe I was just expecting something different.

 

[bus-conductor]

Ok fair enough, I don’t claim to be a tactical genius but I always thought that you needed fullbacks to provide the width in a 433 and with the legs to get up and down the field, that had decent defensive positioning.

Where as a 4231 the wide men of the front 4 have more emphasis to provide the width. Either way I still feel our weakness is in our individuals rather than our formation.

Something needs to change and I would love to see us give 433 a proper fucking go, with a DM whoever that may be.

Is Skipp really a DM? Does he tackle well, how is his positioning and sense of danger? I just haven’t seen enough of him and from what I have he reminds me more of a tidy winks like ball playing DM, less of a Fernandinho battle and break up play DM.

I think there are numerous tactical variations that can be applied depending on the personnel you have at your disposal. Kyle Walker's positional awareness was never "great" he was a pretty stupid footballer, certainly not a game reader, he just had quick legs and very good stamina which allowed him to do it for 90 minutes.

The proactive versions of 433 definitely can and do use FB's as attackers, but look at Guardiola, he'll vary it, sometimes playing inverted wide forwards (Mahrez right, Sterling left) and sometimes playing more orthodox wide forwards (Sane left, Sterling right). He sometimes asks his FB's to provide attacking width and sometimes gets them coming inside when he wants his wide forwards more orthodox.

For me, the point is right now, 433 makes even more sense because we don't have a decent proper DM/6 - because it would allow us to play three of our current group and compensate for none of them being a true "holder" whilst all being able to play "football".

Skipp isn't a pure, one dimensional, DM, but he is tenacious and dynamic but also capable of seeing passes and moving the ball quickly and efficiently. he could either play as the central hub, or we play Winks as the Jorgino role centrally and have Skipp as one of the 8's but will add some tenacity and dynamism - the way Kante kind of played it for Chelsea last season. Or we can have either Skipp or Winks (or even Wanyama if he's truly fit) in the centre and have two ofWinks, Skipp, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Eriksen, or at a push Alli as the 8's.

This way we could compensate for the midfield lack of a top drawer 6, cover for the FB's, get quick direct legs either side of Kane, and three players who can all score - transition a bit quicker, move the ball a bit quicker and even evolve for a life beyond Eriksen.

 

[Cravenspurs]

He obviously has bags of potential but looks quite shy on the ball and in games in general. I expected an authoritative kind of midfielder, maybe he will grow into that or maybe I was just expecting something different.

The bolder bit above is what gets me from the little I have seen of him in a spurs shirt. His willingness to get on the ball is on the shy side so far.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Got to give him a chance. He's arrived at a rather uncomfortable time when a lot of psychological wrestling appears to be taking place. Once things settle he'll be king of the midfield.

Certainly hoping so. Usually takes time and only young.

It's also a hefty price tag and huge expectation to bear, not to mention a foreign country.

Time is hopefully all Ndombele needs.

 

[TimothéeAtouba]

I’m all for giving Tanguy the necessary time to adapt, but I have this feeling it will take longer than we think and he’ll test the patience of some of the fans.

He didn’t look good today, I think he’s having trouble with the pace of this league at the moment.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

If we played 433 it would help with whatever FB issues we have as you have the lateral midfield cover.

Because it becomes 4-5-1 out of possession?

 

[bus-conductor]

Because it becomes 4-5-1 out of possession?

It can do yes, definitely. But you've also got more lateral cover from the two 8's as well, so you can also use the wide forwards to press/cover their FB's, cutting off the out ball from the CB's, shuffling across depending on which Cb has the ball, or which trigger player. The way Liverpool and City set traps using their 433's.

 

[Mrs Perryman]

I’m all for giving Tanguy the necessary time to adapt, but I have this feeling it will take longer than we think and he’ll test the patience of some of the fans.

He didn’t look good today, I think he’s having trouble with the pace of this league at the moment.

Not many players coming from foreign leagues do, TBF. Think we are so desperate for him to fill the Dembele-size hole in our midfield, he won't get the time needed to get up to speed. He doesn't help the situation by piling on the pounds after just a couple of weeks out.

 

[peter merison]

Not many players coming from foreign leagues do, TBF. Think we are so desperate for him to fill the Dembele-size hole in our midfield, he won't get the time needed to get up to speed. He doesn't help the situation by piling on the pounds after just a couple of weeks out.

I thought he'd bunged on some weight, he looked knackered after every phase of play that involved him.

 

[BriPelli]

Inexcusable that he is out of shape. Says a lot about a player who can't even get the basics right. Lyon laughed all the way to the bank with this one.

 

[SchmoodSpur]

Inexcusable that he is out of shape. Says a lot about a player who can't even get the basics right. Lyon laughed all the way to the bank with this one.

Give it a fucking rest.

You've claimed 20 of our 25 man squad are shit.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

I thought he was one of our brighter sparks on Saturday. Showed glimpses and signs of being willing to strut his stuff a little more.

Give him time, he's a kid who speaks no English in a new place plays football at a pace he simply isn't used to. He has the skills, has youth on his side and deserves a
all the time we can give him to get used to his huge new role at the club.

Positive steps Tanguy, keep chipping away and all will settle and come good.

 

[bus-conductor]

Because it becomes 4-5-1 out of possession?

It can do yes, definitely. But you've also got more lateral cover from the two 8's as well, so you can also use the wide forwards to press/cover their FB's, cutting off the out ball from the CB's, shuffling across depending on which Cb has the ball, or which trigger player. The way Liverpool and City set traps using their 433's.

and Joshking5

Did you see the Chelsea/Liverpool game today?

Two good exponents of the 433 system, and Chelsea particularly showed how to stop and at the same time get at Liverpool using it. TAA and Robertson were quiet offensively all game, whilst Chelsea got both their FB's forward. The key was having Kovacic and Kante as the lateral 8's - two dynamic, hard working players, who can both play football, with Willian and Mount (who worked much harder without the ball as Hazard ever did) both working hard without the ball too.

First game that Lampard's Chelsea has impressed me. Hope it doesn't continue.

Chelsea deserved to win this game IMO.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Just like bus-conductor told - playing 4-3-3 would help with fullback issue not deepen it.
I mean, what is the logic of not playing 4-3-3 due to fullback issues?

I believe if we'd use Ndombele-Dier-Winks midfield, it could help us to control the midfield and take room off the midfielders of opposite team AND support fullbacks. Right now when we use Ndombele-Winks duo, we are pretty much overrun in midfield and this puts our defense under more pressure.

Yea, I mean, I would like to leave this here.

WHY oh WHY did we want to use Sissoko as 3rd CM instead of Dier or Skipp?
Literally - I would like to know why. Fun fact for you - Sissoko had 39 touches during his 66 minutes.
Though ofc, on Sat Ndombele himself was utter dissapointment as well. Hopefully he is working hard now and doing some line-sprints while others play a cup game.

It was known before that such midfield without any properly defense-focused CM is out of balance. And we leaked whopping 14 (!) shots with 7 (!!!) on target against side like Leicester!! I get they are no pushovers and solid top 10 team. But ffs they are no ManCity!

Unacceptable.

 

[TheSpurEst]

and Joshking5

Did you see the Chelsea/Liverpool game today?

Two good exponents of the 433 system, and Chelsea particularly showed how to stop and at the same time get at Liverpool using it. TAA and Robertson were quiet offensively all game, whilst Chelsea got both their FB's forward. The key was having Kovacic and Kante as the lateral 8's - two dynamic, hard working players, who can both play football, with Willian and Mount (who worked much harder without the ball as Hazard ever did) both working hard without the ball too.

First game that Lampard's Chelsea has impressed me. Hope it doesn't continue.

Chelsea deserved to win this game IMO.

Yea, I agree with you here.
I am not sure about win, as they were quite messy in defense in 1st half, but most certainly deserved a point from it.

I was just looking how Chelsea players were working on the field and for the first time in long-long time was jealous of Chelsea in some way. What an awful feeling to have

 

[Fattynomates]

Yea, I mean, I would like to leave this here.

WHY oh WHY did we want to use Sissoko as 3rd CM instead of Dier or Skipp?
Literally - I would like to know why. Fun fact for you - Sissoko had 39 touches during his 66 minutes.
Though ofc, on Sat Ndombele himself was utter dissapointment as well. Hopefully he is working hard now and doing some line-sprints while others play a cup game.

It was known before that such midfield without any properly defense-focused CM is out of balance. And we leaked whopping 14 (!) shots with 7 (!!!) on target against side like Leicester!! I get they are no pushovers and solid top 10 team. But ffs they are no ManCity!

Unacceptable.

It was no fluke that they scored soon after sissoko went off, and we hadn’t conceded when he was on so stop with your sissoko narrative