Spurs Youth 2018/19

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
What's interesting is that Pochettino is obviously an admirer of Spanish football and development and it's worth noting that a lot of the Spanish players don't really start in first team games until they are about 20 or 21. Maybe Pochettino feels that there's a maturing process?

Just had a look at the Spanish national team from a select few past and present:

Alba - Didnt start first team games until he was 21.
Busquets - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Saul - Didn't start first team games until he was 20
Sergi Roberto - Didn't start first team games until he was 23
Morata - Didn't really start first team games until he was 22
Carvajal - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Koke - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Thiago - Didn't start first tea games until he was 20.
Xavi - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Iniesta - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Xabi Alonso - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.

Let's not forget that some of these are ELITE players too - some of the best in their position. We as a club are likely to produce a lot more Sergi Robertos than we ever are Thiago's for example. Obviously a few exceptions where Isco, David Silva, de Gea, Sergio Ramos etc. all got given games at 18/19 but these are special cases for special players (who we havent got on our books).

Kane didn't become a fully fledged starter for us until he was what? 22 years old?
Winks has pretty much become a starter for us at the age of 22.

It's also obviously an attitude thing, which is where the maturity comes into it. Onomah is younger than Winks, yet was getting ALOT more game time than him 3 seasons ago. Yet here we are, Onomah is 21 years old. Winks is 23 years old and Onomah is out on loan to a struggling Sheffield Wednesday team whilst Harry Winks is starting Champions League round of 16 games against some of Europes best.

We shouldn't really write off the youngsters we have as we don't really know Pochs mentality and what he see's as the best route for these youngsters. Edwards, Onomah, KWP are all in their 20s now. So if Poch is indeed following the Spanish method which is what he'd have known and seen from playing and managing over there, if they've matured enough and have the right attitude, I have no doubt they'll get their chance in the summer and it's down to them to grab their chance.

Whilst it's nice to be able to have 18 year olds on the bench or play a part in the team, we ARE at such a high level that it's not always easy (We are still the only top 6 Premier League team to start an 18 year old more than once in the Premier League in the last 2 years).
 
Totti said:
What's interesting is that Pochettino is obviously an admirer of Spanish football and development and it's worth noting that a lot of the Spanish players don't really start in first team games until they are about 20 or 21. Maybe Pochettino feels that there's a maturing process?

Just had a look at the Spanish national team from a select few past and present:

Alba - Didnt start first team games until he was 21.
Busquets - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Saul - Didn't start first team games until he was 20
Sergi Roberto - Didn't start first team games until he was 23
Morata - Didn't really start first team games until he was 22
Carvajal - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Koke - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Thiago - Didn't start first tea games until he was 20.
Xavi - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Iniesta - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.
Xabi Alonso - Didn't start first team games until he was 20.

Let's not forget that some of these are ELITE players too - some of the best in their position. We as a club are likely to produce a lot more Sergi Robertos than we ever are Thiago's for example. Obviously a few exceptions where Isco, David Silva, de Gea, Sergio Ramos etc. all got given games at 18/19 but these are special cases for special players (who we havent got on our books).

Kane didn't become a fully fledged starter for us until he was what? 22 years old?
Winks has pretty much become a starter for us at the age of 22.

It's also obviously an attitude thing, which is where the maturity comes into it. Onomah is younger than Winks, yet was getting ALOT more game time than him 3 seasons ago. Yet here we are, Onomah is 21 years old. Winks is 23 years old and Onomah is out on loan to a struggling Sheffield Wednesday team whilst Harry Winks is starting Champions League round of 16 games against some of Europes best.

We shouldn't really write off the youngsters we have as we don't really know Pochs mentality and what he see's as the best route for these youngsters. Edwards, Onomah, KWP are all in their 20s now. So if Poch is indeed following the Spanish method which is what he'd have known and seen from playing and managing over there, if they've matured enough and have the right attitude, I have no doubt they'll get their chance in the summer and it's down to them to grab their chance.

Whilst it's nice to be able to have 18 year olds on the bench or play a part in the team, we ARE at such a high level that it's not always easy (We are still the only top 6 Premier League team to start an 18 year old more than once in the Premier League in the last 2 years).
Click to expand...

The big difference between young players in Spain and UK is that in Spain they have 'B' sides for players from about between 18 and 21.

The UK has PL2, which is pretty useless at the 18- 21 age or loans - so UK players have a real problem as to what to do in that age gap. Playing PL2 is not challenging and players stop developing. Loans as we have seen can be a lottery - remember Mason at Lorent where he never played ? Or Kane at Leicester ? But if we are going to use loans we need a proper Loans coach to select clubs, arrange loans and monitor how the loanee does.

The best way is for the players from 18-21 to be involved with the first team - but realistically that won't happen. Maybe we need to send more of our players to Spanish 'B' sides or Spanish 3rd tier if Shashoua and Georgiou's loans have worked this season.

So the fundamental question which English football has been trying to answer is 'what to do with players 18-21 if not involved in first team until 21 or 22 ?'
 
Spursidol said:
The big difference between young players in Spain and UK is that in Spain they have 'B' sides for players from about between 18 and 21.

The UK has PL2, which is pretty useless at the 18- 21 age or loans - so UK players have a real problem as to what to do in that age gap. Playing PL2 is not challenging and players stop developing. Loans as we have seen can be a lottery - remember Mason at Lorent where he never played ? Or Kane at Leicester ? But if we are going to use loans we need a proper Loans coach to select clubs, arrange loans and monitor how the loanee does.

The best way is for the players from 18-21 to be involved with the first team - but realistically that won't happen. Maybe we need to send more of our players to Spanish 'B' sides or Spanish 3rd tier if Shashoua and Georgiou's loans have worked this season.

So the fundamental question which English football has been trying to answer is 'what to do with players 18-21 if not involved in first team until 21 or 22 ?'
Click to expand...

You raise a good point actually - a lot of the 'B' teams are in the second or third division in La Liga too, so they are playing at a decent level.

It's looking like Winks is the odd one out in all of this then when it comes to our youth system. Kane got loans. Onomah is now getting loans. Edwards is getting loans.

Winks is the only one from our youth team who was rated highly that has gradually got more and more sub appearances, more and more cup starts and eventually league starts through a 4 year period and I assume Skipp would be NEXT on that conveyor belt as he's already ahead of Winks in the development department by starting 4 games this season and been involved in 9 of them. If his attitude is right, he'll get even more sub appearances next season, a few more starts etc.

What a shame we can't get a Spurs B team in the lower leagues.
 
How to deal with 18-22 year old youth players? Ideally they play for the under 23's, then start to train with the first team, and over three or four years establish themselves in the squad - Winks - Skipp - KWP ... but it's not easy to keep twenty five talented young players happy when their chances of making the grade are 1/10.

So what else? Well obviously you can loan them out, Amos - Onomah - CCV - Ogilvie but whilst some players do find their feet elsewhere, Kane being the obvious example, for most a loan is the first step out of the door, they never come back.

Of course today you also have the issue of money ... Why stay at Spurs and 'waste' four years in the reserves, on 5k a week, which to you and me is a lot of money but to footballers is nothing, when the Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 or far flung corners of Europe will offer you 20k a week, and almost certainly first team football, if you join them. Of course the European clubs will do this on the basis that should they find a Sancho, Nelson, or our own Reo Griffiths who come good, then as qualified 'English' players they can sell them back to the EPL for a vast fortune.

So it's difficult, when even money bags Man City can't hang on to their best youngsters then who can?

What Spurs try and achieve is an environment where every youngster feels they will get their opportunity, of course they have to be good enough and 90% will never make it, but with the entire club built around a development principle we have a better chance than most of keeping our rising stars, and indeed of attracting young stars from clubs like City, Chelsea, Barca, Real where buying the next 'galatico' will always take precedence over risking a youngster.

It's the Tottenham way we just love 'one of our own' and long may that continue ....
 
BangkokSpud said:
How to deal with 18-22 year old youth players? Ideally they play for the under 23's, then start to train with the first team, and over three or four years establish themselves in the squad - Winks - Skipp - KWP ... but it's not easy to keep twenty five talented young players happy when their chances of making the grade are 1/10.

So what else? Well obviously you can loan them out, Amos - Onomah - CCV - Ogilvie but whilst some players do find their feet elsewhere, Kane being the obvious example, for most a loan is the first step out of the door, they never come back.

Of course today you also have the issue of money ... Why stay at Spurs and 'waste' four years in the reserves, on 5k a week, which to you and me is a lot of money but to footballers is nothing, when the Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 or far flung corners of Europe will offer you 20k a week, and almost certainly first team football, if you join them. Of course the European clubs will do this on the basis that should they find a Sancho, Nelson, or our own Reo Griffiths who come good, then as qualified 'English' players they can sell them back to the EPL for a vast fortune.

So it's difficult, when even money bags Man City can't hang on to their best youngsters then who can?

What Spurs try and achieve is an environment where every youngster feels they will get their opportunity, of course they have to be good enough and 90% will never make it, but with the entire club built around a development principle we have a better chance than most of keeping our rising stars, and indeed of attracting young stars from clubs like City, Chelsea, Barca, Real where buying the next 'galatico' will always take precedence over risking a youngster.

It's the Tottenham way we just love 'one of our own' and long may that continue ....
Click to expand...

Problem with that approach is that the u23's is not a league which taxes players after age 19 (so the first season after they come up from u18's, after that the 2nd season is repeating what they learned in the first season, so not that great and the 3rd season when they are 19 or 20 is where the chances are they will regress. And you don't want to talk about the 4th season when they are 20/21)

Pretty much the only games which have been really worthwhile are the 4 games in the Checkatrade Trophy where the u23's play League 1 or League 2 games (ie against men),

So the only options at age 19 are loans to lower league sides in UK or abroad (where Edwards, Sashoua and Georgiou are testing the water) - or Poch's statement 4 years ago where he said he didn't like loans and would bring kids through the first team. However whilst Poch has improved players on the fringes of the first team when he arrived (eg Kane) or who have been bought in (Dele, Foyth) the only Academy grown players brought through in 4 years are Winks and maybe Skipp if he starts playing regularly (KWP was a given 4 seasons ago as a natural for the first team, yet over 4 seasons has less than a dozen games, so might end up as a casualty and regress if Poch is not careful).

With that track record of lack of development for our Academy kids Spurs will not be the club of choice for the best youngsters - and even if they start training they will move on, the likes of 16 year old Noni Madueke moved to PSV last season rather than join the Academy full time - so the pool of players for Poch to bring through may well not be that great technically shortly.

IMO Spurs need to tackle the 18-21 training as the current non loan ideas under Poch have proved to fail, he's clearly saying he can't handle inexperienced players in the first team (as indeed is common amongst PL managers).

And the only viable ideas appear to be loans as a stepping stone so that if they look good enough aged say 20, and after a loan or two playing mens football elsewhere, then they will have enough experience for Poch to select those who might make it in the first team - and ideally that possibly means trying out 2 or 3 a season for say up to half a dozen appearances (mainly off the bench) before focussing on brining one or two through.

All of this, is of course additional to the pre-season games where Poch 'should' take say 6 - 8 players on tour where they mix with the first team and get valuable game time - and Poch can select those he trusts to step up. That worked well in pre-season 2018 in the absence of half the squad due to the world cup, allowing Poch to involve Amos, Skipp, Marsh and Eyoma in the first team this season (albeit less than I'd hoped, other than Skipp).

Pre-season 2019 will be another interesting test as its likely to coincide with Copa America, so Spurs will be missing CB's Sanchez and Foyth and AM's Lamela and Moura, so hopefully opportunities for CB's and AM's from the development squad to make their mark ?
 
Last edited:
Spursidol said:
Problem with that approach is that the u23's is not a league which taxes players after age 19 (so the first season after they come up from u18's, after that the 2nd season is repeating what they learned in the first season, so not that great and the 3rd season when they are 19 or 20 is where the chances are they will regress. And you don't want to talk about the 4th season when they are 20/21)

Pretty much the only games which have been really worthwhile are the 4 games in the Checkatrade Trophy where the u23's play League 1 or League 2 games (ie against men),

So the only options at age 19 are loans to lower league sides in UK or abroad (where Edwards, Sashoua and Georgiou are testing the water) - or Poch's statement 4 years ago where he said he didn't like loans and would bring kids through the first team. However whilst Poch has improved players on the fringes of the first team when he arrived (eg Kane) or who have been bought in (Dele, Foyth) the only Academy grown players brought through in 4 years are Winks and maybe Skipp if he starts playing regularly (KWP was a given 4 seasons ago as a natural for the first team, yet over 4 seasons has less than a dozen games, so might end up as a casualty and regress if Poch is not careful).

With that track record of lack of development for our Academy kids Spurs will not be the club of choice for the best youngsters - and even if they start training they will move on, the likes of 16 year old Noni Madueke moved to PSV last season rather than join the Academy full time - so the pool of players for Poch to bring through may well not be that great technically shortly.

IMO Spurs need to tackle the 18-21 training as the current non loan ideas under Poch have proved to fail, he's clearly saying he can't handle inexperienced players in the first team (as indeed is common amongst PL managers).

And the only viable ideas appear to be loans as a stepping stone so that if they look good enough aged say 20, and after a loan or two playing mens football elsewhere, then they will have enough experience for Poch to select those who might make it in the first team - and ideally that possibly means trying out 2 or 3 a season for say up to half a dozen appearances (mainly off the bench) before focussing on brining one or two through.

All of this, is of course additional to the pre-season games where Poch 'should' take say 6 - 8 players on tour where they mix with the first team and get valuable game time - and Poch can select those he trusts to step up. That worked well in pre-season 2018 in the absence of half the squad due to the world cup, allowing Poch to involve Amos, Skipp, Marsh and Eyoma in the first team this season (albeit less than I'd hoped, other than Skipp).

Pre-season 2019 will be another interesting test as its likely to coincide with Copa America, so Spurs will be missing CB's Sanchez and Foyth and AM's Lamela and Moura, so hopefully opportunities for CB's and AM's from the development squad to make their mark ?
Click to expand...

Great post ... thanks
 
sHyf8NSL_bigger.jpg
Tottenham Hotspur‏Verified account @SpursOfficial
1f1ec-1f1f7.png
Our U19s are training at Toumba Stadium in Thessaloniki, Greece, ahead of tomorrow’s @UEFAYouthLeague clash with @PAOK_FC.
1f4aa.png


Live on BT Sport/ESPN from 17.00 UK time
TV Guide
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Lovely I'll be at home to catch this one. Anyone know if Parrott might get a run out?
Click to expand...

If fit very likely as he's the best striker in the i19 age group - and Rodel Richards I think may still be injured who is the only real opposition to Parrott (Richards can also play on the wing).

If both are injured I'd imagine Bennett will be switched from wing to striker, rather than promote an u16 striker like Tarrelle Whitaker to be a starter for a big u19 match.
 
Spursidol said:
sHyf8NSL_bigger.jpg
Tottenham Hotspur‏Verified account @SpursOfficial
1f1ec-1f1f7.png
Our U19s are training at Toumba Stadium in Thessaloniki, Greece, ahead of tomorrow’s @UEFAYouthLeague clash with @PAOK_FC.
1f4aa.png


Live on BT Sport/ESPN from 17.00 UK time
TV Guide
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. I'll be in the West End from about 4 till 6.45ish, so I'll try to find this on TV somewhere.

Anyone ever been to Rileys Sports Bar Haymarket? I don't care whether the beer's any good, I've got to be somewhere later and sober, or at least when I turn up
 
Spursidol said:
The 50 most exciting teenagers in English football
As the title says - 442's top 50 youngsters registered to FA affiliated clubs in 3 parts this being nos 30 - 50. Tuesday next 20, Wednesday top 10.

Troy Parrott is no 37 in their list.
Click to expand...

Wonder if there are any there we could poach - that really should be a model we look towards in future if we're not willing to spend big bucks on star players.

Not heard of many on that list to be fair (and likely that three-quarters of them won't make it)

I assume the top 10 will consist of Greenwood, Hudson-Odoi, Nelson, Sessegnon and Foden.

Interested to see where perhaps Nya Kirby would be on the list.
 
Totti said:
Wonder if there are any there we could poach - that really should be a model we look towards in future if we're not willing to spend big bucks on star players.

Not heard of many on that list to be fair (and likely that three-quarters of them won't make it)

I assume the top 10 will consist of Greenwood, Hudson-Odoi, Nelson, Sessegnon and Foden.

Interested to see where perhaps Nya Kirby would be on the list.
Click to expand...

Most seem sub age 18 so far - its the generation after Greenwood, Hudson-Odoi, Nelson, Sessegnon and Foden.
 
A lot of the same names from the U23 Woolwich game on Friday there. Looking forward to watching this, will miss the start though
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom