Spurs bottom of the Premier League Net Spend Table for last 5 seasons

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JDK

Raw Ill give it to ya no trivia. Okay, some trivia
Here here, sammyspurs sammyspurs seems to be on a gold run of sense at the moment, and its all true, as my post earlier says, sadly as it is more difficult to regularly secure CL footy as it was 10 years ago when Woolwich were building, we have to tighten our belts even more than they did to make it all work.

JDK JDK surely everyone knew you were joking, the day you stop making sense is the day this place folds!

Sadly now we have the pathetic international break to try and fill with crap, but after we get to beat Sunderland and West Brom and get back towards the top, looking forward to those games and Poch gets more time to look at what went wrong at Liverpool and keep working with the guys still around, plus no more transfer bullshit for a while which I am sure he will appreciate so he can concentrate on building (team not stadium)
We always lose before the international break. We need to pay homage to the meltdown gods.
 

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ArcspacE

BINNED AGAIN
No. That's not what I'm implying at all. Making more money now will enable us to pay off the new stadium faster though. Obviously.
.
The stadium finance is largely secured against future naming rights - something we have progressed virtually 0 on. Goons also had flats to sell in a far better area.
 
His apologists we'll be here shortly telling us about the 'new' stadium being built (15 years later hasn't even broken ground bu hey ho) and how it is completely unrealistic and plastic of fans to expect even 1 (ONE) quality signing during the transfer window even though we've made 180m+ from TV deals alone in the last 2 seasons and signed massive deals with AIA and UA.

You can't demand Champions League football from your managers if you are unwilling to provide them the right tools to achieve that
You expect us to beat two of five clubs with wastly bigger budgets than us for players and for the CL spot. I don't know if you're among them - some fans think we should be realistic title contenders. You refer to the massive deals we have with AIA and UA. They give us the grand total of £25m per season. Good deals, ye. But we compete against Man Utd for fourth spot. They just signed deals with Chevrolet and Adidas, giving them £128m per season. You do see the difference there? They get 5 times as much as we get from those deals, and they get a shit ton more money from every other deal with sponsors, media, etc., as well.
 
What most people tend to forget when discussing transfer spending, is that the player investment is not one-dimensional. There are transfer fees, yes, but also wages.

It may look like we spend less than West Ham or other clubs, but do we in fact do that? Over the last ten seasons we have built a better squad. We have good backup for every position, and then some. With success, which we had a lot of under Redknapp, comes higher wage demands for players doing well. With higher wages in club comes higher wage demands from new players. Even though we are FAR behind the teams we are competing against for a top 4 spot in wage expenditure, I'm sure we're way above the likes of Hull and Stoke, and even Everton and Newcastle.

You might think that wages doesn't matter that much, compared to the ridiculous transfer fees of todays football? Well. Rooney makes about £15m a year. Our highest earner is Adebayor? Making something like £5m a year. That's another £10m of net expenditure from United compared to Spurs, every season. With their current squad (Di Maria, Falcao, van Persie, Rooney, Mata, de Gea..) they probably have close to £100m more expenditure per season than us. Same goes for Chelsea and City, and Woolwich also spends a lot more every season. And we probably spend £20m+ more than teams like West Ham. Every season. And they can spend money as they are getting a new stadium for free(?).

The thing is, we do spend money. We have a lot of money invested in the current squad. With the way the bigger clubs are splashing their cash at the moment, I'm guessing this is a time where our upper management thinks that big player investments would be high risk with a very low chance of reward, and the market is currently sellers market - making it very hard to get value for money. Which we have to get as we make a lot less money than the big ones.
 
I am not expecting Levy to break the bank and blow 100mil on players.

But when you look back, there have been times in the last 5 years where one big signing could have made a difference for us and the deals fell through because Levy wouldn't spend an extra few quid.

2010-2011 Season we needed a Striker and missed out on Suarez - Missed UCL by 6 Points.
2011-2012 Season we needed another Centre Half and missed out on Cahill - Missed UCL by 1 point
2012-2013 Season we needed a CM to replace Modric and missed out on Moutinhio - Missed UCL by 1 point
2013-2014 Season we needed a striker and missed out on Benteke - AVB Sacked

Had we made one of those signings, and I know there are other reasons why the didn't happen, where would we have been? Honestly had we signed Cahill and be able to play him with Kaboul that season over Dawson/Gallas that season we would have made UCL.
 
I am not expecting Levy to break the bank and blow 100mil on players.

But when you look back, there have been times in the last 5 years where one big signing could have made a difference for us and the deals fell through because Levy wouldn't spend an extra few quid.

2010-2011 Season we needed a Striker and missed out on Suarez - Missed UCL by 6 Points.
2011-2012 Season we needed another Centre Half and missed out on Cahill - Missed UCL by 1 point
2012-2013 Season we needed a CM to replace Modric and missed out on Moutinhio - Missed UCL by 1 point
2013-2014 Season we needed a striker and missed out on Benteke - AVB Sacked

Had we made one of those signings, and I know there are other reasons why the didn't happen, where would we have been? Honestly had we signed Cahill and be able to play him with Kaboul that season over Dawson/Gallas that season we would have made UCL.
i see what you're saying. the didn't go all in for quality in an identified area of the team. but, hindsight is also 20/20
 

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Well there you have it, buying for sake of it doesn't guarantee wins, ledley was free, Bentley cost loads, bale we made 70m on, bent was more and was a dud

We are sadly in stadium mode and like Woolwich it's a long process, you have to think about it like an operation you need to get done, if you don't have it done in time you will deteriorate, the new stadium will help us get the revenue and attract more investment and push us on, but it puts us out of action for a while.....

That is why Poch is here a good solid coach who can get the best out of what we had, he has already pumped life into 3 of the magnificent 7 who were mentally gone 4 months ago, 4 months people - give him time, we will keep fighting
Arse talked about relocating in 1997. They made a move in 2000 and by 2006 they were in it.
We have been talking about increased Capacity since the ENIC takeover in 2001 when Buchler said it was imperative we increase to 44,000.
We missed the boat.
Another difference with Woolwich is MP will probably not be around when we move into the new stadium or when we can start spending.
 
Arse talked about relocating in 1997. They made a move in 2000 and by 2006 they were in it.
We have been talking about increased Capacity since the ENIC takeover in 2001 when Buchler said it was imperative we increase to 44,000.
We missed the boat.
Another difference with Woolwich is MP will probably not be around when we move into the new stadium or when we can start spending.
Sadly in 2001 we were a mid table side and at our furthest point from Woolwich in the last 25 years so it was probably very difficult to prove the feasibility of the build of the stadium, so in that sense yes of course we missed that boat, but now we are in a much better place and there is more chance we can get it built, fingers crossed we do still have MP when we come out the other side!
 
Arse talked about relocating in 1997. They made a move in 2000 and by 2006 they were in it.
We have been talking about increased Capacity since the ENIC takeover in 2001 when Buchler said it was imperative we increase to 44,000.
We missed the boat.
Another difference with Woolwich is MP will probably not be around when we move into the new stadium or when we can start spending.
As pointed out above, around 2001 we were finishing 40pts behind Woolwich.....you really wonder why Haringey refused to pay for better public transport for a 60,000 capacity stadium for a team averaging 14th in the PL.
 
A lot of the backlash in these types of threads seems to be coming from people with what I see as unrealistic expectations of our club, in both directions.

The figures are difficult to get now we are a private company, but most analysts still peg us as 6th in wages in the Premier League. City, Chelsea and United pay multiples of our wage budget every year, Liverpool and Woolwich about double. Then us, then Everton at about two thirds of our budget. Those clubs all have much higher revenue streams to be able pay those budgets, in the same way our revenue is miles above Everton.

People talk about the Welbeck deal. We wanted a loan, Welbeck wanted a permanent deal. While on the face of it £16 million seems a reasonable price for the player looking at the whole deal you can see why it isn't feasible. If he is on the reported £100,000 a week, that makes the total value of the deal over a five year contract £42 million. Amortized over those five years that is £8,400,000 a year on Welbeck. For Woolwich that is worth a risk, for us that is only feasible if he is going to be our undoubted Bale level star, selling a shit ton of shirts and driving new revenue. I don't see Welbeck doing anything like that for the club.

To give a further example of the difference Fabio Borini failed to move to QPR in major part because they were unable to meet his £90,000 a week wages. He is a useful squad player who can turn out in cups for them and do a job and he would be one of the elite earners at Spurs.

Too many people have unrealistic expectation that we WILL qualify for the Champions League. Unless we can compete with the budgets of those clubs above us we can never guarantee that. We can compete for those positions as we have been doing and some seasons we may even do it, but to budget that way would be suicide in the long term.

But likewise too many people seem to think we are shit. We are the 6th biggest spending club in the richest league in the world. We are one of the few teams in the league who, barring utter catastrophe, never have to worry about relegation. Our worst season in the modern (post mid-table shite) era (2008-09, two points eight games) saw us finish 8th, two points off Uefa Cup football. The year before we came 11th but won a cup. We qualify for Europe every season and, crucially for the long term goals of the club, do well in it. Our coefficient is huge. We are second in the Europa League seedings, behind only Inter (who have a European Cup win to bolster their ranking as well). If we had been in the Champions League group stage draw we would have been seeded 14th, healthily in the middle of pot two. In fact we would have pushed Manchester City into pot three.

We are a well run club who are competitive in the highest profile league in world football, with no real fear of losing our position, competing in Europe, and competing well. Signing someone like Danny Welbeck will not change our position either way.

Also, the point I feel gets lost in these debates often, we are bloody good at football and I really enjoy watching Spurs play. We win a fuckload of games every year and always go into two domestic cups with a chance of winning them. We're not Villa or Hull. Steve Bruce claimed that he played a reserve side in the Europa play off because if he didn't "we wouldn't have got a point at Stoke". THAT is misery as a football fan. That your clubs only chance, possibly ever, to compete in Europe is thrown away to draw at fucking Stoke.

We aren't Barcelona or Bayern, but we also aren't Villa hoping Ron Vlaar isn't sold so we don't get relegated. We're Spurs. None of us here started supporting the club because we were the biggest club in the world and winning the European Cup every year, that was for the mugs who followed Liverpool at school (or Man Utd for younger readers). Each of us is here because we like the way the club is driven, full of lofty ideals that we will almost certainly never attain.

For christ sake the most famous quote attached to the club is basically saying 'Well, we probably won't actually win, but we will be so good at not winning that it won't matter because we're just that great.' It's a romantic ideal (Spurs fan)/high minded delusion (fan of most other clubs) that defines the club and it's supporters and is one of the reasons I'm sure most of us are here at all. Spurs are genuinely different to other clubs. West Ham talk about 'the West Ham way' when most fans couldn't tell you what that means. But Spurs DO have an ethos.

There's no echo of glory in Danny fucking Welbeck.

EDIT: That was way too fucking long. TL;DR = Danny Welbeck isn't that good, we're better than Villa, I'm sad enough to not have to look at Uefa coefficients to know what ours is (75.949), #COYS
 
joe lewis is worth like 4 or 5 billion

it would be nice if he'd invest a little of his own money in the club for once

the old cunt could easily build a stadium if he wanted too

i think he's up about 8.6 million today :levylol:
Joe Lewis - Forbes
 
i see what you're saying. the didn't go all in for quality in an identified area of the team. but, hindsight is also 20/20
It's only hindsight about how close we were time after time, it was perfectly obvious to us all clamouring for specific acquisitions at those specific times what we needed and we didn't get it.....shock horror it cost us again, then again, then again.

Astute businessmen like Lewis and Levy learn from a mistake like that once, maybe twice but, wouldn't be where or who they are if they made it 3-4 times . Therefore it is reasonable to assume they have actually been generally content with the balance sheets and club position regardless of CL. Sacking managers has helped create scapegoats and endless periods of transition to deflect from this as most fans just want success on the pitch no matter what. Albeit some are content with taking part, punching your own weight only and prudence before risk and glory, most are not happy with that attitude.
 
A lot of the backlash in these types of threads seems to be coming from people with what I see as unrealistic expectations of our club, in both directions.

The figures are difficult to get now we are a private company, but most analysts still peg us as 6th in wages in the Premier League. City, Chelsea and United pay multiples of our wage budget every year, Liverpool and Woolwich about double. Then us, then Everton at about two thirds of our budget. Those clubs all have much higher revenue streams to be able pay those budgets, in the same way our revenue is miles above Everton.

People talk about the Welbeck deal. We wanted a loan, Welbeck wanted a permanent deal. While on the face of it £16 million seems a reasonable price for the player looking at the whole deal you can see why it isn't feasible. If he is on the reported £100,000 a week, that makes the total value of the deal over a five year contract £42 million. Amortized over those five years that is £8,400,000 a year on Welbeck. For Woolwich that is worth a risk, for us that is only feasible if he is going to be our undoubted Bale level star, selling a shit ton of shirts and driving new revenue. I don't see Welbeck doing anything like that for the club.

To give a further example of the difference Fabio Borini failed to move to QPR in major part because they were unable to meet his £90,000 a week wages. He is a useful squad player who can turn out in cups for them and do a job and he would be one of the elite earners at Spurs.

Too many people have unrealistic expectation that we WILL qualify for the Champions League. Unless we can compete with the budgets of those clubs above us we can never guarantee that. We can compete for those positions as we have been doing and some seasons we may even do it, but to budget that way would be suicide in the long term.

But likewise too many people seem to think we are shit. We are the 6th biggest spending club in the richest league in the world. We are one of the few teams in the league who, barring utter catastrophe, never have to worry about relegation. Our worst season in the modern (post mid-table shite) era (2008-09, two points eight games) saw us finish 8th, two points off Uefa Cup football. The year before we came 11th but won a cup. We qualify for Europe every season and, crucially for the long term goals of the club, do well in it. Our coefficient is huge. We are second in the Europa League seedings, behind only Inter (who have a European Cup win to bolster their ranking as well). If we had been in the Champions League group stage draw we would have been seeded 14th, healthily in the middle of pot two. In fact we would have pushed Manchester City into pot three.

We are a well run club who are competitive in the highest profile league in world football, with no real fear of losing our position, competing in Europe, and competing well. Signing someone like Danny Welbeck will not change our position either way.

Also, the point I feel gets lost in these debates often, we are bloody good at football and I really enjoy watching Spurs play. We win a fuckload of games every year and always go into two domestic cups with a chance of winning them. We're not Villa or Hull. Steve Bruce claimed that he played a reserve side in the Europa play off because if he didn't "we wouldn't have got a point at Stoke". THAT is misery as a football fan. That your clubs only chance, possibly ever, to compete in Europe is thrown away to draw at fucking Stoke.

We aren't Barcelona or Bayern, but we also aren't Villa hoping Ron Vlaar isn't sold so we don't get relegated. We're Spurs. None of us here started supporting the club because we were the biggest club in the world and winning the European Cup every year, that was for the mugs who followed Liverpool at school (or Man Utd for younger readers). Each of us is here because we like the way the club is driven, full of lofty ideals that we will almost certainly never attain.

For christ sake the most famous quote attached to the club is basically saying 'Well, we probably won't actually win, but we will be so good at not winning that it won't matter because we're just that great.' It's a romantic ideal (Spurs fan)/high minded delusion (fan of most other clubs) that defines the club and it's supporters and is one of the reasons I'm sure most of us are here at all. Spurs are genuinely different to other clubs. West Ham talk about 'the West Ham way' when most fans couldn't tell you what that means. But Spurs DO have an ethos.

There's no echo of glory in Danny fucking Welbeck.

EDIT: That was way too fucking long. TL;DR = Danny Welbeck isn't that good, we're better than Villa, I'm sad enough to not have to look at Uefa coefficients to know what ours is (75.949), #COYS
I bow down to you for this :adesalute:
 
A lot of the backlash in these types of threads seems to be coming from people with what I see as unrealistic expectations of our club, in both directions.

The figures are difficult to get now we are a private company, but most analysts still peg us as 6th in wages in the Premier League. City, Chelsea and United pay multiples of our wage budget every year, Liverpool and Woolwich about double. Then us, then Everton at about two thirds of our budget. Those clubs all have much higher revenue streams to be able pay those budgets, in the same way our revenue is miles above Everton.

People talk about the Welbeck deal. We wanted a loan, Welbeck wanted a permanent deal. While on the face of it £16 million seems a reasonable price for the player looking at the whole deal you can see why it isn't feasible. If he is on the reported £100,000 a week, that makes the total value of the deal over a five year contract £42 million. Amortized over those five years that is £8,400,000 a year on Welbeck. For Woolwich that is worth a risk, for us that is only feasible if he is going to be our undoubted Bale level star, selling a shit ton of shirts and driving new revenue. I don't see Welbeck doing anything like that for the club.

To give a further example of the difference Fabio Borini failed to move to QPR in major part because they were unable to meet his £90,000 a week wages. He is a useful squad player who can turn out in cups for them and do a job and he would be one of the elite earners at Spurs.

Too many people have unrealistic expectation that we WILL qualify for the Champions League. Unless we can compete with the budgets of those clubs above us we can never guarantee that. We can compete for those positions as we have been doing and some seasons we may even do it, but to budget that way would be suicide in the long term.

But likewise too many people seem to think we are shit. We are the 6th biggest spending club in the richest league in the world. We are one of the few teams in the league who, barring utter catastrophe, never have to worry about relegation. Our worst season in the modern (post mid-table shite) era (2008-09, two points eight games) saw us finish 8th, two points off Uefa Cup football. The year before we came 11th but won a cup. We qualify for Europe every season and, crucially for the long term goals of the club, do well in it. Our coefficient is huge. We are second in the Europa League seedings, behind only Inter (who have a European Cup win to bolster their ranking as well). If we had been in the Champions League group stage draw we would have been seeded 14th, healthily in the middle of pot two. In fact we would have pushed Manchester City into pot three.

We are a well run club who are competitive in the highest profile league in world football, with no real fear of losing our position, competing in Europe, and competing well. Signing someone like Danny Welbeck will not change our position either way.

Also, the point I feel gets lost in these debates often, we are bloody good at football and I really enjoy watching Spurs play. We win a fuckload of games every year and always go into two domestic cups with a chance of winning them. We're not Villa or Hull. Steve Bruce claimed that he played a reserve side in the Europa play off because if he didn't "we wouldn't have got a point at Stoke". THAT is misery as a football fan. That your clubs only chance, possibly ever, to compete in Europe is thrown away to draw at fucking Stoke.

We aren't Barcelona or Bayern, but we also aren't Villa hoping Ron Vlaar isn't sold so we don't get relegated. We're Spurs. None of us here started supporting the club because we were the biggest club in the world and winning the European Cup every year, that was for the mugs who followed Liverpool at school (or Man Utd for younger readers). Each of us is here because we like the way the club is driven, full of lofty ideals that we will almost certainly never attain.

For christ sake the most famous quote attached to the club is basically saying 'Well, we probably won't actually win, but we will be so good at not winning that it won't matter because we're just that great.' It's a romantic ideal (Spurs fan)/high minded delusion (fan of most other clubs) that defines the club and it's supporters and is one of the reasons I'm sure most of us are here at all. Spurs are genuinely different to other clubs. West Ham talk about 'the West Ham way' when most fans couldn't tell you what that means. But Spurs DO have an ethos.

There's no echo of glory in Danny fucking Welbeck.

EDIT: That was way too fucking long. TL;DR = Danny Welbeck isn't that good, we're better than Villa, I'm sad enough to not have to look at Uefa coefficients to know what ours is (75.949), #COYS
 

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A lot of the backlash in these types of threads seems to be coming from people with what I see as unrealistic expectations of our club, in both directions.

The figures are difficult to get now we are a private company, but most analysts still peg us as 6th in wages in the Premier League. City, Chelsea and United pay multiples of our wage budget every year, Liverpool and Woolwich about double. Then us, then Everton at about two thirds of our budget. Those clubs all have much higher revenue streams to be able pay those budgets, in the same way our revenue is miles above Everton.

People talk about the Welbeck deal. We wanted a loan, Welbeck wanted a permanent deal. While on the face of it £16 million seems a reasonable price for the player looking at the whole deal you can see why it isn't feasible. If he is on the reported £100,000 a week, that makes the total value of the deal over a five year contract £42 million. Amortized over those five years that is £8,400,000 a year on Welbeck. For Woolwich that is worth a risk, for us that is only feasible if he is going to be our undoubted Bale level star, selling a shit ton of shirts and driving new revenue. I don't see Welbeck doing anything like that for the club.

To give a further example of the difference Fabio Borini failed to move to QPR in major part because they were unable to meet his £90,000 a week wages. He is a useful squad player who can turn out in cups for them and do a job and he would be one of the elite earners at Spurs.

Too many people have unrealistic expectation that we WILL qualify for the Champions League. Unless we can compete with the budgets of those clubs above us we can never guarantee that. We can compete for those positions as we have been doing and some seasons we may even do it, but to budget that way would be suicide in the long term.

But likewise too many people seem to think we are shit. We are the 6th biggest spending club in the richest league in the world. We are one of the few teams in the league who, barring utter catastrophe, never have to worry about relegation. Our worst season in the modern (post mid-table shite) era (2008-09, two points eight games) saw us finish 8th, two points off Uefa Cup football. The year before we came 11th but won a cup. We qualify for Europe every season and, crucially for the long term goals of the club, do well in it. Our coefficient is huge. We are second in the Europa League seedings, behind only Inter (who have a European Cup win to bolster their ranking as well). If we had been in the Champions League group stage draw we would have been seeded 14th, healthily in the middle of pot two. In fact we would have pushed Manchester City into pot three.

We are a well run club who are competitive in the highest profile league in world football, with no real fear of losing our position, competing in Europe, and competing well. Signing someone like Danny Welbeck will not change our position either way.

Also, the point I feel gets lost in these debates often, we are bloody good at football and I really enjoy watching Spurs play. We win a fuckload of games every year and always go into two domestic cups with a chance of winning them. We're not Villa or Hull. Steve Bruce claimed that he played a reserve side in the Europa play off because if he didn't "we wouldn't have got a point at Stoke". THAT is misery as a football fan. That your clubs only chance, possibly ever, to compete in Europe is thrown away to draw at fucking Stoke.

We aren't Barcelona or Bayern, but we also aren't Villa hoping Ron Vlaar isn't sold so we don't get relegated. We're Spurs. None of us here started supporting the club because we were the biggest club in the world and winning the European Cup every year, that was for the mugs who followed Liverpool at school (or Man Utd for younger readers). Each of us is here because we like the way the club is driven, full of lofty ideals that we will almost certainly never attain.

For christ sake the most famous quote attached to the club is basically saying 'Well, we probably won't actually win, but we will be so good at not winning that it won't matter because we're just that great.' It's a romantic ideal (Spurs fan)/high minded delusion (fan of most other clubs) that defines the club and it's supporters and is one of the reasons I'm sure most of us are here at all. Spurs are genuinely different to other clubs. West Ham talk about 'the West Ham way' when most fans couldn't tell you what that means. But Spurs DO have an ethos.

There's no echo of glory in Danny fucking Welbeck.

EDIT: That was way too fucking long. TL;DR = Danny Welbeck isn't that good, we're better than Villa, I'm sad enough to not have to look at Uefa coefficients to know what ours is (75.949), #COYS
So to cut a long story short, we should be grateful for not being in a relegation battle each season, and should forget qualifying for CL, even though we finished 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th recently.. OK.

As one poster pointed out, each time we finished 5th we were one player short of finishing 4th or above.
No one is saying we should be throwing £50m and 250k a week at any one player.. But leaving ourselves with 2 half decent strikers and Harry Kane is just irresponsible..
We could have signed a good premier league proven striker for £20m odd, and still only have spent £12m in this window. That's less than just about every other club.. That 20m striker could be the difference once again, but we decided to have a go without.. Lessons are not being learnt..
 
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