Serge Aurier

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In all comps? I meant PL.
Shame Fraser doesnt have 7 CL games behind him....not bad though, 3 more goal involvements from a player bandied around in the 200M ball park, who should be paid 250k a week, over some Scottish geezer who cost 400k from Aberdeen.

It's not bad at all.

Could be worse though. Could be Gareth Bale and have 3 less than Ryan Fraser.
 
But you said Poch picks Trippier because he has no options, yet you think our other two RBs are better. So theres his options. He prefers Trippier though, and our league position vindicates that decision.
Aurier has had two injuries so Poch hasn't had quite the freedom you imply, but I admit that he's still played Tripps more. I've no problem with that because I trust Poch implicitly but personally when I watch Tripps play there is no way in hell that I can say hand on heart he's played better than Aurier, in my eyes Tripps has been beyond shit this season, he's been fucking awful, anyone claiming otherwise makes my mind boggle.

Whilst Poch has played Winks, Kane and Skipp (previously Bentaleb, Mason) he has also frustrated many a Spurs fan for not playing Onomah, KWP, CCV, Pritchard but as time has progressed, you can't argue that he's got it absolutely spot on, as these players aren't exactly pulling up trees elsewhere. Maybe his judgement is spot on with KWP too, again I trust him because as I see it he hasn't done a Mourinho and pushed out a player only for them to become a world beater (Salah, de Bruyne), there are many more to add to that list from many other managers too but I'm struggling to think of one player that Poch has let go that's gone onto big things.
 
Aurier has had two injuries so Poch hasn't had quite the freedom you imply, but I admit that he's still played Tripps more. I've no problem with that because I trust Poch implicitly but personally when I watch Tripps play there is no way in hell that I can say hand on heart he's played better than Aurier, in my eyes Tripps has been beyond shit this season, he's been fucking awful, anyone claiming otherwise makes my mind boggle.

Whilst Poch has played Winks, Kane and Skipp (previously Bentaleb, Mason) he has also frustrated many a Spurs fan for not playing Onomah, KWP, CCV, Pritchard but as time has progressed, you can't argue that he's got it absolutely spot on, as these players aren't exactly pulling up trees elsewhere. Maybe his judgement is spot on with KWP too, again I trust him because as I see it he hasn't done a Mourinho and pushed out a player only for them to become a world beater (Salah, de Bruyne), there are many more to add to that list from many other managers too but I'm struggling to think of one player that Poch has let go that's gone onto big things.

Such a bogus argument that gets continually trotted out by many. Why does a player have to be Kevin DeBruyne to be deemed a "success" (or mistake to release). Poch could given Onomah the nearly 4500 minutes of football that he's given Sissoko over the last three seasons and it's highly unlikely he'd have been any less of a fucking catastrophe than Sissoko has been, and highly likely Onomah would have developed into at least the level of fucking hum drum competence that Sissoko is now showing. Same KWP and Aurier. If he'd given KWP every single minute he;'s given Aurier, could he possibly have been any worse?

Neither Onomah or KWP would have to world beaters now to have been exactly the same use that Sissoko and Aurier have been over the duration of their time here, and we could have saved ourselves about 95m in fees and wages, and spent it elsewhere.

And if both those players had shown any kind of positive development, we'd actually have added value to our squad, not reduced it as we have with Sissoko and Aurier.


(and that's without going into the whole Pritchard/Njie/Nkoudou and Veljkovic etc scenarios).
 
Neither Onomah or KWP would have to world beaters now to have been exactly the same use that Sissoko and Aurier have been over the duration of their time here, and we could have saved ourselves about 95m in fees and wages, and spent it elsewhere.

And if both those players had shown any kind of positive development, we'd actually have added value to our squad, not reduced it as we have with Sissoko and Aurier.


(and that's without going into the whole Pritchard/Njie/Nkoudou and Veljkovic etc scenarios).
Drunk ramblings of a mad man. Volume 2386
 
Such a bogus argument that gets continually trotted out by many. Why does a player have to be Kevin DeBruyne to be deemed a "success" (or mistake to release). Poch could given Onomah the nearly 4500 minutes of football that he's given Sissoko over the last three seasons and it's highly unlikely he'd have been any less of a fucking catastrophe than Sissoko has been, and highly likely Onomah would have developed into at least the level of fucking hum drum competence that Sissoko is now showing. Same KWP and Aurier. If he'd given KWP every single minute he;'s given Aurier, could he possibly have been any worse?

Neither Onomah or KWP would have to world beaters now to have been exactly the same use that Sissoko and Aurier have been over the duration of their time here, and we could have saved ourselves about 95m in fees and wages, and spent it elsewhere.

And if both those players had shown any kind of positive development, we'd actually have added value to our squad, not reduced it as we have with Sissoko and Aurier.


(and that's without going into the whole Pritchard/Njie/Nkoudou and Veljkovic etc scenarios).

I don't think we can honestly say that Sissoko & Aurier aren't of better quality than Onomah & KWP.

Sissoko this season has become a vital player for defence to attack transitional play and his emergence has probably impacted our season as much as someone like Sons. The guys played 55 times for France. Like him or not you don't get that many caps for such a powerful footballing nation unless you've got something about you
 
Such a bogus argument that gets continually trotted out by many. Why does a player have to be Kevin DeBruyne to be deemed a "success" (or mistake to release). Poch could given Onomah the nearly 4500 minutes of football that he's given Sissoko over the last three seasons and it's highly unlikely he'd have been any less of a fucking catastrophe than Sissoko has been, and highly likely Onomah would have developed into at least the level of fucking hum drum competence that Sissoko is now showing. Same KWP and Aurier. If he'd given KWP every single minute he;'s given Aurier, could he possibly have been any worse?

Neither Onomah or KWP would have to world beaters now to have been exactly the same use that Sissoko and Aurier have been over the duration of their time here, and we could have saved ourselves about 95m in fees and wages, and spent it elsewhere.

And if both those players had shown any kind of positive development, we'd actually have added value to our squad, not reduced it as we have with Sissoko and Aurier.


(and that's without going into the whole Pritchard/Njie/Nkoudou and Veljkovic etc scenarios).
I've said even before Sissoko signed the paperwork that we'd have gotten at worst the same from Onomah (it's all in the threads), Sissoko's transfer basically blocked him from playing, BUT Sissoko wasn't or has ever been a catastrophe, he did the role he was asked to perform, he was just OK, meh but catastrophy he has NEVER been. He's put in probably 2 at a push 3 poor performances, during games where at least half the team also played poorly too, but only one man got the flack. You've bassed your entire rhetoric on him around this, you more than any poster in this entire forum still refuses to acknowledge his performances this season just says it all.

BUT, flip the coin over, and what exactly has Onomah done whilst on loan? Answer nothing. I have watched almost every minute of Onomah at Tottenham and of his age group he was the player that showed the greatest promise IMO (more than Winks, Pritchard (I confess I didn't see much of Pritch), Veljkovic, Bentaleb, CCV, Edwards and Walker-Peters), Veljkovic was also mustard.

A lot can happen but as it stands its fair to say KWP, Winks will be the only ones that remain from that group (Amos, Oakley-Booth also question marks) but I think for sure we will finally get to see Poch's vision in greater clarity this summer, by that I'm specifically referring to loaning players vs keeping within the first team squad for training.

But despite my personal disappointment of not seeing Onomah or KWP not playing I'd say he's got it absolutely spot on given none of them is of having pulled up any trees since leaving or gone out on loan, most haven't even held down a spot in their average clubs, then they sure as hell aren't making it at Spurs.

Oh, I like the way you choose to say that Aurier is the player blocking KWP and not Tripps. LOL.
 
I've said even before Sissoko signed the paperwork that we'd have gotten at worst the same from Onomah (it's all in the threads), Sissoko's transfer basically blocked him from playing, BUT Sissoko wasn't or has ever been a catastrophe, he did the role he was asked to perform, he was just OK, meh but catastrophy he has NEVER been. He's put in probably 2 at a push 3 poor performances, during games where at least half the team also played poorly too, but only one man got the flack. You've bassed your entire rhetoric on him around this, you more than any poster in this entire forum still refuses to acknowledge his performances this season just says it all.

BUT, flip the coin over, and what exactly has Onomah done whilst on loan? Answer nothing. I have watched almost every minute of Onomah at Tottenham and of his age group he was the player that showed the greatest promise IMO (more than Winks, Pritchard (I confess I didn't see much of Pritch), Veljkovic, Bentaleb, CCV, Edwards and Walker-Peters), Veljkovic was also mustard.

A lot can happen but as it stands its fair to say KWP, Winks will be the only ones that remain from that group (Amos, Oakley-Booth also question marks) but I think for sure we will finally get to see Poch's vision in greater clarity this summer, by that I'm specifically referring to loaning players vs keeping within the first team squad for training.

But despite my personal disappointment of not seeing Onomah or KWP not playing I'd say he's got it absolutely spot on given none of them is of having pulled up any trees since leaving or gone out on loan, most haven't even held down a spot in their average clubs, then they sure as hell aren't making it at Spurs.

Oh, I like the way you choose to say that Aurier is the player blocking KWP and not Tripps. LOL.


We already had Trippier and paid 5m for him, and peanuts wages. Trippier had already proven himself to be good enough for us. KWP had patiently waited to move up the pecking order, and when Walker went, he played the first game away at Newcastle and was fine, there was no need to go and spend 25m and another 20m in wages on Aurier, a player who then also needed exactly the same kind of development for this league that KWP needed.

Whether you rate Sissoko more than me is irrelevant to the point. You even admit yourself he's been meh. We could have Onomah being "meh" for the first 3000 minutes of Sissoko's time here - for nothing - and chances are we'd have no worse a level of meh now than Sissoko is.

Kane didn't always pull up trees on his loans. Leicester and Norwich fans laughed at him. I don't always think lower division loans are conducive, sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes kids will learn more playing with better players, under better coaching, as we are starting to see in Germany with some of these kids.

But an academy player doesn't have to turn out to be DeBruyne to be a viable alternative. Especially when the alternative was spunking nearly 100m up the wall on the likes of Aurier and Sissoko.
 
We already had Trippier and paid 5m for him, and peanuts wages. Trippier had already proven himself to be good enough for us. KWP had patiently waited to move up the pecking order, and when Walker went, he played the first game away at Newcastle and was fine, there was no need to go and spend 25m and another 20m in wages on Aurier, a player who then also needed exactly the same kind of development for this league that KWP needed.

Whether you rate Sissoko more than me is irrelevant to the point. You even admit yourself he's been meh. We could have Onomah being "meh" for the first 3000 minutes of Sissoko's time here - for nothing - and chances are we'd have no worse a level of meh now than Sissoko is.

Kane didn't always pull up trees on his loans. Leicester and Norwich fans laughed at him. I don't always think lower division loans are conducive, sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't. Sometimes kids will learn more playing with better players, under better coaching, as we are starting to see in Germany with some of these kids.

But an academy player doesn't have to turn out to be DeBruyne to be a viable alternative. Especially when the alternative was spunking nearly 100m up the wall on the likes of Aurier and Sissoko.
We will find out this summer what is going to happen to those out on loan, absolutely no one really knows. We were always told that if Poch rates you, he WILL NOT send you out on loan but keep you in the group. Then we were told that he had been persuaded to change his stance on this and send out a bunch on loan, let's see if this u-turn actually happens and ONLY if Onomah, Edwards and Co make it into the first team we will know but it's safe to say since things have been under his control a loanee of his has never been selected to play to Spurs. (the only caveat to this would be Brexit, it's feasible at least from a planning point of view not to get rid, if half our team is forced out the country).

The specific point is this about Sissoko/Onomah, right now today Sissoko is way, way, way better than Onomah. There isn't even a contest between the two. If Onomah was on the open market (NOT a Tottenham player) we wouldn't be looking at him as a player to buy, unfortunately, same can be said of CCV and Edwards. You would be apoplectic if we were linked to Onomah. No doubt the counter-argument to this is that had he remained he would have pushed on and would be a first team regular by now, well you can stick that in this the Unicorns and fairytale threads because we will never know, we do know he hasn't been good enough to break into Villa and now Wednesday in the Championship. Here's hoping that things do click for him and that happens at Spurs and just like Kane Josh is about the same age when he broke through but back to the point he's going to have to up his game to even get on Sissoko levels.
 
We will find out this summer what is going to happen to those out on loan, absolutely no one really knows. We were always told that if Poch rates you, he WILL NOT send you out on loan but keep you in the group. Then we were told that he had been persuaded to change his stance on this and send out a bunch on loan, let's see if this u-turn actually happens and ONLY if Onomah, Edwards and Co make it into the first team we will know but it's safe to say since things have been under his control a loanee of his has never been selected to play to Spurs. (the only caveat to this would be Brexit, it's feasible at least from a planning point of view not to get rid, if half our team is forced out the country).

The specific point is this about Sissoko/Onomah, right now today Sissoko is way, way, way better than Onomah. There isn't even a contest between the two. If Onomah was on the open market (NOT a Tottenham player) we wouldn't be looking at him as a player to buy, unfortunately, same can be said of CCV and Edwards. You would be apoplectic if we were linked to Onomah. No doubt the counter-argument to this is that had he remained he would have pushed on and would be a first team regular by now, well you can stick that in this the Unicorns and fairytale threads because we will never know, we do know he hasn't been good enough to break into Villa and now Wednesday in the Championship. Here's hoping that things do click for him and that happens at Spurs and just like Kane Josh is about the same age when he broke through but back to the point he's going to have to up his game to even get on Sissoko levels.

But my point wasn’t just about today. It was about making the choice 3 years ago to give the development time to Onomah and KWP instead of giving that 4000+ minutes of development time to Sissoko and Aurier (which is effectively what it’s been).

Even if they didn’t pull up trees, neither have/are Sissoko/Aurier. We could be where we are now but 90m better off.

The bottom line being that Poch hasn’t been vindicated, just because Onomah and KWP aren’t superstars now. Neither Sissoko or Aurier are either.
 
But my point wasn’t just about today. It was about making the choice 3 years ago to give the development time to Onomah and KWP instead of giving that 4000+ minutes of development time to Sissoko and Aurier (which is effectively what it’s been).

Even if they didn’t pull up trees, neither have/are Sissoko/Aurier. We could be where we are now but 90m better off.

The bottom line being that Poch hasn’t been vindicated, just because Onomah and KWP aren’t superstars now. Neither Sissoko or Aurier are either.

Surely by these massive assumptions we could say that had we stuck with Townsend he’d be better than Son by now.

Onomah couldnt get a game at Villa or Wednesday while Sissoko was bossing games against Barcelona. It’s no more of an argument than saying sell Eriksen and replace him with Georgio and he’ll be at least as good in a year.
 
Surely by these massive assumptions we could say that had we stuck with Townsend he’d be better than Son by now.

Onomah couldnt get a game at Villa or Wednesday while Sissoko was bossing games against Barcelona. It’s no more of an argument than saying sell Eriksen and replace him with Georgio and he’ll be at least as good in a year.

Stop it.
 

It’s your argument not mine.

You’ve spent all season disagreeing with Guido on Trippiers ability and then come up with a theory regarding KWP and Aurier.

Well surely that should count for Trippier too then. Simply given game time, he’d be at least as good, certainly no worse, probably better and cost a fraction of the wages.

Or does your their only work on players you personally don’t rate like Sissoko?

I don’t believe for one second that we would be where we are if Onomah has been used this season instead of Sissoko, and while I rate KWP as potential, I don’t think he would have had the same impact that Aurier has in Europe.

You’ve made massive assumptions and passed them off as givens.
 
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It’s your argument not mine.

You’ve spent all season disagreeing with Guido on Trippiers ability and then come up with a theory regarding KWP and Aurier.

Well surely that should count for Trippier too then. Simply given game time, he’d be at least as good, certainly no worse, probably better and cost a fraction of the wages.

Or does your their only work player you personally don’t rate like Sissoko?

I don’t believe for one second that we would be where we are if Onomah has been used this season instead of Sissoko, and while I rate KWP as potential, I don’t think he would have had the same impact that Aurier has in Europe.

You’ve made massive assumptions and passed them off as givens.

No Sammy, what you've done is what you often do and concoct a fucking ginormous straw man from a twig.

I explained it pretty well. Trippier hasn't spent the last two years needing to develop his game. Aurier has effectively needed the same development process as KWP, possibly more because he's also had to settle into a new country, a new culture, learn a new language, whereas KWP was already assimilated into our training methodology, our dressing room culture, our manager's tactics and ethos/ethics. Same to lesser degree Onomah.

Townsend had already had those minutes, played 50 times for us, and another 70ish on loan from us. He'd proved to not be of the significant quality.

KWP has already proved he can match Aurier's "impact in Europe" (which isn't major at all) by playing away at Barcelona. And before you point out his mistake, bear in mind Aurier made mistakes in the CL too, like away at Inter etc. Last season in one game KWP exceeded Aurier's assists for a whole season. And it's not like Aurier was great defensively is it?
 
No Sammy, what you've done is what you often do and concoct a fucking ginormous straw man from a twig.

I explained it pretty well. Trippier hasn't spent the last two years needing to develop his game. Aurier has effectively needed the same development process as KWP, possibly more because he's also had to settle into a new country, a new culture, learn a new language, whereas KWP was already assimilated into our training methodology, our dressing room culture, our manager's tactics and ethos/ethics. Same to lesser degree Onomah.

Townsend had already had those minutes, played 50 times for us, and another 70ish on loan from us. He'd proved to not be of the significant quality.

KWP has already proved he can match Aurier's "impact in Europe" (which isn't major at all) by playing away at Barcelona. And before you point out his mistake, bear in mind Aurier made mistakes in the CL too, like away at Inter etc. Last season in one game KWP exceeded Aurier's assists for a whole season. And it's not like Aurier was great defensively is it?

Errrr but you seem to have forgotten that you said Onomah wouldn’t be any worse than Sissoko all of a sudden.
How’s he doing in the Championship and on what basis did you garner from his time here that he would have been any more of a success than Townsend was.

I wasn’t going to point out KWPs mistake, I thought it was simply one of those things and he had a good game.
But you are claiming he can do what Aurier has done regularly based on one game.

You also use his minutes in Spurs system as a plus against Aurier, but ignore your theory when comparing him to Trippier.

It’s a loaded viewpoint, it’s biased, and full of holes because you rate Trippier so somehow KWP wouldn’t have surpassed him by now with game time.
 
Errrr but you seem to have forgotten that you said Onomah wouldn’t be any worse than Sissoko all of a sudden.
How’s he doing in the Championship and on what basis did you garner from his time here that he would have been any more of a success than Townsend was.

I wasn’t going to point out KWPs mistake, I thought it was simply one of those things and he had a good game.
But you are claiming he can do what Aurier has done regularly based on one game.

You also use his minutes in Spurs system as a plus against Aurier, but ignore your theory when comparing him to Trippier.

It’s a loaded viewpoint, it’s biased, and full of holes because you rate Trippier so somehow KWP wouldn’t have surpassed him by now with game time.

I said it's very likely that with the 4000 minutes of game time it's highly likely Onomah would be at least as viable as Sissoko is now. He doesn't have to be any more of a "success" than Townsend was to be as viable as Sissoko. IMO all Sissoko is doing most of the time is the barest of minimums to be deemed viable.

How complicated is it to understand their are massive differences between Aurier's circumstances and Trippier's, not just how I rate them, but actual circumstances. I believe there is every chance KWP could have surpassed them both if he'd been given Aurier's game time over the last 2 years, but that's not the point I am making. We already had Trippier and KWP here, we didn't need to spend the money - to then end up having to develop and integrate Aurier, just to end up with the standard of player we have now.


And you are missing my main point. Academy players don't have to be DeBruyne or Salah to be viable alternatives to purchases. Most of our purchases (eg Aurier and Sissoko) don't turn out to be DeBruyne or Salah.
 
I said it's very likely that with the 4000 minutes of game time it's highly likely Onomah would be at least as viable as Sissoko is now. He doesn't have to be any more of a "success" than Townsend was to be as viable as Sissoko. IMO all Sissoko is doing most of the time is the barest of minimums to be deemed viable.

How complicated is it to understand their are massive differences between Aurier's circumstances and Trippier's, not just how I rate them, but actual circumstances. I believe there is every chance KWP could have surpassed them both if he'd been given Aurier's game time over the last 2 years, but that's not the point I am making. We already had Trippier and KWP here, we didn't need to spend the money - to then end up having to develop and integrate Aurier, just to end up with the standard of player we have now.


And you are missing my main point. Academy players don't have to be DeBruyne or Salah to be viable alternatives to purchases. Most of our purchases (eg Aurier and Sissoko) don't turn out to be DeBruyne or Salah.

Onomah has shown nothing to suggest he'd be anything like as good as Sissoko. Sissoko has over 50 caps for France and has been a major part of our season, a season in which we're 3rd in the league and into the final stages of the champs league. I wanted Onomah to succeed, really did, but he's done nothing but look bang average in the majority of club games he's played.
 
I said it's very likely that with the 4000 minutes of game time it's highly likely Onomah would be at least as viable as Sissoko is now. He doesn't have to be any more of a "success" than Townsend was to be as viable as Sissoko. IMO all Sissoko is doing most of the time is the barest of minimums to be deemed viable.

How complicated is it to understand their are massive differences between Aurier's circumstances and Trippier's, not just how I rate them, but actual circumstances. I believe there is every chance KWP could have surpassed them both if he'd been given Aurier's game time over the last 2 years, but that's not the point I am making. We already had Trippier and KWP here, we didn't need to spend the money - to then end up having to develop and integrate Aurier, just to end up with the standard of player we have now.


And you are missing my main point. Academy players don't have to be DeBruyne or Salah to be viable alternatives to purchases. Most of our purchases (eg Aurier and Sissoko) don't turn out to be DeBruyne or Salah.

Agree on KWP by the way, although it's easy for us to say from here... when we signed Aurier, KWP may have looked like dogshit in training and hence Poch had to make the call at that time.
 
I said it's very likely that with the 4000 minutes of game time it's highly likely Onomah would be at least as viable as Sissoko is now. He doesn't have to be any more of a "success" than Townsend was to be as viable as Sissoko. IMO all Sissoko is doing most of the time is the barest of minimums to be deemed viable.

How complicated is it to understand their are massive differences between Aurier's circumstances and Trippier's, not just how I rate them, but actual circumstances. I believe there is every chance KWP could have surpassed them both if he'd been given Aurier's game time over the last 2 years, but that's not the point I am making. We already had Trippier and KWP here, we didn't need to spend the money - to then end up having to develop and integrate Aurier, just to end up with the standard of player we have now.


And you are missing my main point. Academy players don't have to be DeBruyne or Salah to be viable alternatives to purchases. Most of our purchases (eg Aurier and Sissoko) don't turn out to be DeBruyne or Salah.

Couldn’t care less about De bruyne I’ve never mentioned him.

But so what if there are differences between Trippier and Aurier circumstances.
It still doesn’t mean that KWP couldn’t have surpassed Trippier using your same argument.

Your view is that maybe Onomah would be as good as Sissoko. It’s based on nothing, other than your dislike for Sissoko.
It’s not rational to make that assumption because he can’t even cut it in the championship.

KWP isn’t even a bench regular two years after signing Aurier. You think he would offer more than Aurier, but still be behind Trippier.
Hardly a massive step up from where he is now anyway.
 
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