Poch out?

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Poch out?

  • Yes

    Votes: 161 36.9%
  • No

    Votes: 275 63.1%

  • Total voters
    436
Yes. But we weren't lifting a trophy. We were celebrating a magnificent result against all the odds
Oh, but I thought ''most chairmen prefer to stay in the background''?

The fact is, on such big stages, the club AS A WHOLE, gets involved intimately.

Any minor gains that can be had, will be tried. Poch wanted Levy there. The squad wanted Levy there. Levy wanted to be there.

Again, your emotions have no bearing on the truth. Poch told us the truth.

P.s. It's not just the trophy winners chairmen that were there mate.
 
The thing people really need to be worried about is how Kane feels about things.

I think Kane is as good as gone and I don't hold it against him. On his day, he's in the top 5 players in the world. I doubt he wants to stick around for another rebuilding project, and there will be a huge one this summer.

Get as much money as possible and use it wisely imo, he isn't going to finish his career here and potentially win nothing when he can get into any team in the world.
 
I think Kane is as good as gone and I don't hold it against him. On his day, he's in the top 5 players in the world. I doubt he wants to stick around for another rebuilding project, and there will be a huge one this summer.

Get as much money as possible and use it wisely imo, he isn't going to finish his career here and potentially win nothing when he can get into any team in the world.
This smells just like those that said Poch was United bound last Xmas.

Which was, inevitably and obviously, bollocks.
 
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It would have been the biggest game since 1984 when the the UEFA was almost par.
It would have been everything I had ever dreamed of.

But the day before the game our manager started talking about quitting the club, and then proceeded to drop a key player in the semis and bring in an out of form and injured name who hadn’t played for two months.

We wimped out against a team that was reeling from bottling the PL and were barely prepared to cross the halfway line despite a 30 second head start.

Our first shot on target was in the 86th minute.

It was a cluster fuck on the biggest of stages.
Losing wasn’t the problem. Not giving ourselves the best shot at it was unacceptable and it cuts deep.
That’s why I’m so bothered about it.

Some of us remember taking part and celebrate being there. But some of us still want to cry thinking about it though, and if you feel like we do, that pedestal we put Poch on looks pretty fucking shaky right now.
Fully agree. Excellent post, Samuel. I'm sick of being told I should be grateful for our current situation. That Gerry Francis era is the datum point for all Spurs experience. Fuck that. We fucked up the champions League final in a pathetic, completely avoidable way. And now we have a squad of cunts who don't give a fuck. It's not on.
 
I think Kane is as good as gone and I don't hold it against him. On his day, he's in the top 5 players in the world. I doubt he wants to stick around for another rebuilding project, and there will be a huge one this summer.
No problem if it isn't a transfer within the league. Buy someone like Timo Werner for 30 percent of the fee we will get for Kane, a couple of good defenders and a DM and we will probably be better off.
 
Honestly can't wait for levy/enic/Lewis to fuck off. he has just turned spurs into some soulless corporate club. It isn't even about results.

As long as spurs continue to scrape top 4 whilst maintaining as little expenditure as possible, he isn't going anywhere. He should have bought John Lewis or Thomas Cook. Not a football club.

I'm sure when the club stops turning profits and a club exodus happened he would cash tottenham in at thele drop of a hat and move on to the next club rebuild. Somewhere like Aston villa good pedigree big Midlands club but aging stadium and a return to former glory.
 
The issue we face is Poch has stayed too loyal to certain players who clearly aren't up to it for a top scrap until the end.

He's given Foyth & Sanchez 3 years to prove themselves whereby this final year of the 3 if both don't make that step we probably lose Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

He's stayed loyal to Lamela by not just keeping him on but rewarding him with a new contract despite his stop start career with us.

For me it's simple, the club have signed too many duds over the last few seasons and not enough have come through as genuine quality.

Since 2016, here is a list of players in. Please tell me who has made that first team position their own out of all of these deals in:

16/17:
Sissoko
Janssen
Wanyama
Nkoudou

17/18:
Sanchez
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Llorente
Aurier
Lucas

18/19:
N/A

19/20:
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Sessegnon
Clarke

14 players in. As it stands how many of them have made themselves mainstays in our first XI come a must win game? A few half decent players but none of them are what I would regard as pleasant surprises. It's harsh to judge the new guys but apart from Lucas' cameo roles is there anyone in that 3 year list that we can honestly say has been more success than let down? The buck stops somewhere and that is firmly at the door of the guy bringing these lads in.

He hasn't unearthed a good'un since we signed Son back in 2015! That in anybodies book must be alarming.
 
It’s like everyone has a different level of what’s unacceptable. Which makes all this faux outrage at the idea of replacing Poch so hypocritical.

Should we be 12th in January all the people pouring their hearts out over how shit other fans are will be agreeing a change is needed.

Although I have heard from one that he’s happily follow us into the championship with Poch rather than be pro active and change manager.
Haha
On the other hand you'll have some who would happily go back to George Graham 'cos we won a League Cup.
 
I put the mess we're in at the moment down to a combination of players, manager and owners.

We have an exceptionally talented squad of players. We had the most players of any club at the semi final stages of the World Cup last year. The players in this team though over the years have seemed to lack killer instinct, footballing smarts and the ability to learn from their mistakes. If you go back to our breakthrough of sorts season of 2015/16, there was a succession of missed opportunities - a failure to show up in games like Newcastle at home, away to West Ham, failing to hold onto a 2-1 lead at home to Woolwich (which would have put us top of the table in the month of March for first time since the 60's), failing to see out leads at home to West Brom and away at Chelsea by conceding late goals.

In 2015/16 we put it down to a young team, a young manager and these issues attributable to the inexperience of youth would be ironed out. It never happened. History has kept repeating itself time and time again in the three and a bit seasons since, taking certain opposition for granted when we should be on red alert for an ambush, failure to kill of games we were in the ascendancy in by getting that second or third goal or failure to see out a game by conceding late and sloppy goals.

Our managers game management skills have never really evolved and same tactical shortcomings keep happening, again and again.

We've still effectively got the same team we had in 2015/16 and 2016/17 which was peak Pochettino. He inherited the likes of Lloris, Walker, Rose, Vertonghen, Dembele and Eriksen. Dele and Dier were signed for 2014/15 season, Toby and Son for 2015/16 season. Harry Kane getting his big chance back then and emerging under Poch was like a new signing too. Walker and Dembele have moved on but the rest there are still largely the core of our team now.

Since then, out transfer policy and signings haven't really added a whole lot. The board are obviously culpable too here. In 2016/17, we brought in Sissoko, Wanyama and Janssen. In 2017/18 Aurier, Llorente, Davinson Sanchez and Foyth and Lucas Moura arrived in January. Some of those players have had their moments but not much by way of week in week out game changers there. We fished around for those £20/25 million signings and none of then every really worked out. Last season, we obviously didn't sign anyone and so far this season, the dividend from our four new signings so far has been very underwhelming.

I can't help feeling, we've missed a huge opportunity with the group of players we had. What we needed was to add even one big game changer of a player ever season since 2015/16 but we never did. Its an era as well, where Man U have been in disarray post Sir Alex, Woolwich were dying a slow death for a decade under Wenger and Chelsea drifting as Abramovich lost interest. With the players we had, it was a big opportunity for us. Its frustrating to look at Liverpool now. We finished ahead of the dippers in each of Poch's first four seasons and even prior to the Tim Sherwood season of 2013/14, ahead of them for 4 seasons prior to that. That was 8 of 9 seasons. They went out and addressed two big problem areas in their team goalkeeper and central defence by spending the money they needed (largely financed by sale of Coutinho). No stop gap solutions or hoping for the best on a £20/25 million signing. A lot of their players are no better than what we have. They've learned from their mistakes though, have learned to kill off games, see out leads and unlike Poch, have a ruthless manager in Klopp.
 
The issue we face is Poch has stayed too loyal to certain players who clearly aren't up to it for a top scrap until the end.

He's given Foyth & Sanchez 3 years to prove themselves whereby this final year of the 3 if both don't make that step we probably lose Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

He's stayed loyal to Lamela by not just keeping him on but rewarding him with a new contract despite his stop start career with us.

For me it's simple, the club have signed too many duds over the last few seasons and not enough have come through as genuine quality.

Since 2016, here is a list of players in. Please tell me who has made that first team position their own out of all of these deals in:

16/17:
Sissoko
Janssen
Wanyama
Nkoudou

17/18:
Sanchez
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Llorente
Aurier
Lucas

18/19:
N/A

19/20:
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Sessegnon
Clarke

14 players in. As it stands how many of them have made themselves mainstays in our first XI come a must win game? A few half decent players but none of them are what I would regard as pleasant surprises. It's harsh to judge the new guys but apart from Lucas' cameo roles is there anyone in that 3 year list that we can honestly say has been more success than let down? The buck stops somewhere and that is firmly at the door of the guy bringing these lads in.

He hasn't unearthed a good'un since we signed Son back in 2015! That in anybodies book must be alarming.

He's a stubborn son of a gun. He'll keep playing Wanyama and Sanchez at right back just to prove a point, even if it costs us points
 
He's a stubborn son of a gun. He'll keep playing Wanyama and Sanchez at right back just to prove a point, even if it costs us points

Sanchez isn't even good enough to play as a top 8 CB let alone keep flogging that RB horse. Poch sadly has his favourites which I feel will lead to his demise.

He refers to Wanyama or his stay at Spurs as being a charity case four weeks ago yet selects him ahead of Dier or Skipp in a game where we badly need a shot in the arm and are on course for 3 points? Utter madness. The problem with Poch is he thinks about the next game instead of worrying about th one in front of him. Leaving Aurier at home when he had to play Sanchez at RB against Olympiakos was Tim Sherwood territory as a manager. I don't know why but Poch occasionally has this air of trying to prove a point about his selections. He knows more than me but Sanchez at right back when we had Walker-Peters on the bench in Greece and Dier on the bench against Leicester, two players who clearly can play there just leaves me wondering what the hell is going on!
 
The issue we face is Poch has stayed too loyal to certain players who clearly aren't up to it for a top scrap until the end.

He's given Foyth & Sanchez 3 years to prove themselves whereby this final year of the 3 if both don't make that step we probably lose Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

He's stayed loyal to Lamela by not just keeping him on but rewarding him with a new contract despite his stop start career with us.

For me it's simple, the club have signed too many duds over the last few seasons and not enough have come through as genuine quality.

Since 2016, here is a list of players in. Please tell me who has made that first team position their own out of all of these deals in:

16/17:
Sissoko
Janssen
Wanyama
Nkoudou

17/18:
Sanchez
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Llorente
Aurier
Lucas

18/19:
N/A

19/20:
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Sessegnon
Clarke

14 players in. As it stands how many of them have made themselves mainstays in our first XI come a must win game? A few half decent players but none of them are what I would regard as pleasant surprises. It's harsh to judge the new guys but apart from Lucas' cameo roles is there anyone in that 3 year list that we can honestly say has been more success than let down? The buck stops somewhere and that is firmly at the door of the guy bringing these lads in.

He hasn't unearthed a good'un since we signed Son back in 2015! That in anybodies book must be alarming.

I think all managers are guilty of this the longer they stick around.

But in Poch's defence he hasn't had the money to replace said players
 
I think all managers are guilty of this the longer they stick around.

But in Poch's defence he hasn't had the money to replace said players

16/17 - £75m
17/18 - £115m
18/19 - N/A
19/20 - £150m

£340m across four seasons mate, that isn't exactly peasant money spent. Of the 14 players signed, Sissoko, Janssen, Wanyama, Nkoudou, Sanchez, Foyth, Gazzaniga, Llorente, Aurier, Lucas, Ndombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon & Clarke who honestly makes your strongest Spurs XI should everyone be fit and bang up for it? Not many of them make mine and that's nearly £350m worth of talent we are talking about.

I don't mind the occasional dud, it happens but when 75%-80% of the players signed start looking like ropey deals you're in trouble.
 
I think I can see the issue that we are facing, and Poch's comments after the game summed it up - "we were the better team, we dominated the game, I am happy with the performance"

Poch is a football snob. He wants to play 'good football' and wants to stick to his philosophy/style. Unfortunately this has led to us putting possession of the ball ahead of scoring goals.

I believe that the players are losing confidence in his tactics and the champions league loss compounded this.

He had a full pre season with the squad and he produces this shit show. Levy has every right to be furious..
 
I think Kane is as good as gone and I don't hold it against him. On his day, he's in the top 5 players in the world. I doubt he wants to stick around for another rebuilding project, and there will be a huge one this summer.

Get as much money as possible and use it wisely imo, he isn't going to finish his career here and potentially win nothing when he can get into any team in the world.
Kane if fucking livid at the minute, even he is indirectly throwing not only some players under the bus but he’s throwing his manager under too.....Anyone have any doubt just listen to his post Olympiakos interview and that is how the guy feels...
When a player is saying things like the manger has been here 6 years and we are still making the same mistakes we were 6 years ago or We are not a young team anymore, I feel Kane is weighing up his own options right now....

The boy is Spurs through and through, but he’s thinking he’s getting older and the club under this current set up is moving the wrong direction and he’s not liking it......If he doesn’t win the Euros with England next summer then he will leave in my opinion.
 
When a player is saying things like the manger has been here 6 years and we are still making the same mistakes we were 6 years ago
The way you're framing this quote is completely wrong. He didn't throw Poch under the bus at all. He was talking purely about the players.

''I can see why the manager is frustrated because he’s been here for six years now and we’re still making similar mistakes to the ones we were in his first year. We’ve got to find a way to get around it, improve and get better.''
 
The way you're framing this quote is completely wrong. He didn't throw Poch under the bus at all. He was talking purely about the players.

''I can see why the manager is frustrated because he’s been here for six years now and we’re still making similar mistakes to the ones we were in his first year. We’ve got to find a way to get around it, improve and get better.''
I read it both ways to be honest, Kane has to be questioning things the same way we are, manager included.
 
7 were signed under Poch. The only ones who were non Poch signings are Soldado, Lamela & Bent.

With Lo Celso being a perm option that list will inevitably turn to 8 of our top 10 signings being Poch boys. Ultimately who is to blame if the gaffer struggles to form a team with these boys whilst others like Maddison, Brooks, Robertson & Ricardo slipped through the net? I thought Soyuncu had an outstanding game against us as well at the weekend. Another surely on the clubs radar who we possibly opted against. Can't keep blaming e lack of money if there's evidence money has been spent and there were cheaper options elsewhere.
Isn’t it odd how other teams sign players and they actually look like part of their team
 
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