Our Squad 2019/20 - and the Rebuild !

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I think we are in for a painful rebuild finally starting in January and next summer. Finally some big departures and a refreshing of the squad are going to happen. I just hope we have CL footie to attract better players. This is the squad as I see it now:

Out: Aurier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Wanyama, Dier, Eriksen

Maybe: Lloris (injury could really limit him and we may need a new GK), Gazzaniga (one of him or Lloris going seems likely to me), Walker-Peters (though I think he probably should go since he can’t even start over a fit Aurier or Sissoko), Lamela (don’t see him as a vital member of the team)

In: Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon, Davies, Ndombele, Winks, Sissoko, Skipp, Lo Celso, Clarke, Dele, Son, Lucas, Kane, Parrott

We desperately need a RB (maybe 2), 2 CBs at minimum and a DM. A versatile DM who can fill in at CB like Dier has done would be quite useful for us. I think we are probably going to need a new GK given how severe Lloris’ injury was, not sure he will ever be the same. I also think we could do with another advanced playmaker, feel like Lamela is eventually going to go and we will need another body up there.

I don’t think we will run into much of a homegrown player issue as far as being concerned for future purchases. With Winks, Kane and Dele (and Davies if not CL or EL), and our U21s Sessegnon, Parrott, Skipp, Clarke, we have some room in the squad to get more foreign players. I don’t think we need to chase like Declan Rice for instance as a DM to pay a massive premium when we can get someone foreign who could do the same job for much cheaper.
 
Spursidol said:
OP updated for Vorm re-signing for the rest of the season.

He will be eligible to play in PL games but too many overseas trained players so he will not be eligible to play CL football until Christmas. In January Course can make changes to CL squad to include Vorm, by dropping or selling one of the other overseas trained players.
Click to expand...
Assuming we are still in Europe in January.
 
greenmanRD said:
I think we are in for a painful rebuild finally starting in January and next summer. Finally some big departures and a refreshing of the squad are going to happen. I just hope we have CL footie to attract better players. This is the squad as I see it now:

Out: Aurier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Wanyama, Dier, Eriksen

Maybe: Lloris (injury could really limit him and we may need a new GK), Gazzaniga (one of him or Lloris going seems likely to me), Walker-Peters (though I think he probably should go since he can’t even start over a fit Aurier or Sissoko), Lamela (don’t see him as a vital member of the team)

In: Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon, Davies, Ndombele, Winks, Sissoko, Skipp, Lo Celso, Clarke, Dele, Son, Lucas, Kane, Parrott

We desperately need a RB (maybe 2), 2 CBs at minimum and a DM. A versatile DM who can fill in at CB like Dier has done would be quite useful for us. I think we are probably going to need a new GK given how severe Lloris’ injury was, not sure he will ever be the same. I also think we could do with another advanced playmaker, feel like Lamela is eventually going to go and we will need another body up there.

I don’t think we will run into much of a homegrown player issue as far as being concerned for future purchases. With Winks, Kane and Dele (and Davies if not CL or EL), and our U21s Sessegnon, Parrott, Skipp, Clarke, we have some room in the squad to get more foreign players. I don’t think we need to chase like Declan Rice for instance as a DM to pay a massive premium when we can get someone foreign who could do the same job for much cheaper.
Click to expand...

If we can keep the squad nucleus of Foyth, Sanchez, Winks, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas & Kane together for as long as possible we will be OK. I'm not saying that all of those are the future first XI, but all of them are absolutely fine be to add young and good quality deothntp the squad a team the very least.

Lloris, Walker-Peters, Aurier, Rose, Davies, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sissoko, Dier, Wanyama, Lamela & Eriksen are for me on borrowed time, I'm talking 1-2 more seasons max before we simp,y need to focus on either letting he, go or seeking as reasonable value. We could have got £40m+ for Dier a season or two ago, we'd never get anything near that now. We need to be streetwise and read between the lines as to when the best time to sell certain players is.

The gaffer needs to do what he can to integrate Skipp & Parrott into the first team squad/ bench by the end of the season. There we have two ready made players who can add to the depth, meaning we can focus on using our money in more pressing areas like at fullback, CB and eventually GK.

If our future squads can be built around Gazzaniga, Foyth, Sanchez, Walker-Peters (if he shows signs of it as the season goes on) Winks, Skipp, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas, Clarke, Parrott & Kane that gives us 15 players we don't need to touch in a 25 man squad 16, possibly 17 with Dier and Davies who I might have been a little harsh on, with 8-10 required.

1 gk, 1-2 right backs, 2 cbs, 0-1 left backs, 1 dm, 1 cm, 1 am and potentially 1 fwd required if one of the younger ones aren't able to hack it at this level. Our choices are simple, we use the current base as our new spine and become a 6-7th place team or we use the current nucleus as fringe options/ depth and we focus on building a brand new spine. I don't want think we require backward steps at present,mew need to focus on first team starters and because of this, I think the rebuild will take 2 seasons, this Jan window, the summer and the summer after that.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
If we can keep the squad nucleus of Foyth, Sanchez, Winks, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas & Kane together for as long as possible we will be OK. I'm not saying that all of those are the future first XI, but all of them are absolutely fine be to add young and good quality deothntp the squad a team the very least.

Lloris, Walker-Peters, Aurier, Rose, Davies, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sissoko, Dier, Wanyama, Lamela & Eriksen are for me on borrowed time, I'm talking 1-2 more seasons max before we simp,y need to focus on either letting he, go or seeking as reasonable value. We could have got £40m+ for Dier a season or two ago, we'd never get anything near that now. We need to be streetwise and read between the lines as to when the best time to sell certain players is.

The gaffer needs to do what he can to integrate Skipp & Parrott into the first team squad/ bench by the end of the season. There we have two ready made players who can add to the depth, meaning we can focus on using our money in more pressing areas like at fullback, CB and eventually GK.

If our future squads can be built around Gazzaniga, Foyth, Sanchez, Walker-Peters (if he shows signs of it as the season goes on) Winks, Skipp, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas, Clarke, Parrott & Kane that gives us 15 players we don't need to touch in a 25 man squad 16, possibly 17 with Dier and Davies who I might have been a little harsh on, with 8-10 required.

1 gk, 1-2 right backs, 2 cbs, 0-1 left backs, 1 dm, 1 cm, 1 am and potentially 1 fwd required if one of the younger ones aren't able to hack it at this level. Our choices are simple, we use the current base as our new spine and become a 6-7th place team or we use the current nucleus as fringe options/ depth and we focus on building a brand new spine. I don't want think we require backward steps at present,mew need to focus on first team starters and because of this, I think the rebuild will take 2 seasons, this Jan window, the summer and the summer after that.
Click to expand...

I agree with a lot of this, but Ben Davies did just sign a new 5 year deal in the summer. I think he’s going to survive the exodus and ideally be Sessegnon’s backup for a couple of seasons. Seems like a good player to have around imo.

I think a new GK is going to be accelerated now. Maybe we don’t touch it in January (with rumors that we are trying to sign Vorm on a free, I think that’s a safe assumption), but it might be vital to get a new one for next year and move Lloris on. I don’t think Gazzaniga is good enough to be anything more than a backup/injury replacement. Plenty of talented young goalies out there, wonder who we chase.
 
greenmanRD said:
I agree with a lot of this, but Ben Davies did just sign a new 5 year deal in the summer. I think he’s going to survive the exodus and ideally be Sessegnon’s backup for a couple of seasons. Seems like a good player to have around imo.

I think a new GK is going to be accelerated now. Maybe we don’t touch it in January (with rumors that we are trying to sign Vorm on a free, I think that’s a safe assumption), but it might be vital to get a new one for next year and move Lloris on. I don’t think Gazzaniga is good enough to be anything more than a backup/injury replacement. Plenty of talented young goalies out there, wonder who we chase.
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An interesting list I've just found online:

www.everybodysoccer.com

The World's Top Goalkeepers (2019) — Everybody Soccer

Everybody Soccer returns with the annual list of top goalkeepers in the world. This year features 50 of the current top goalkeepers as well as another 50 goalkeepers under the age of 24. While some goalkeepers are likely to be sent out on loan (Sergio Rico and Kevin Trapp for example), the parent cl
www.everybodysoccer.com www.everybodysoccer.com

Top 50 Goalkeepers Under 24

1. Gianluigi Donnarumma, Italy (AC Milan) - 20
2. Ionut Radu, Romania (Inter, ITA) - 22
3. Okan Kocuk, Turkey (Bursaspor) - 23
4. Michael Verrips, Netherlands (KV Mechelen, BEL) - 22
5. Felipe Lopez, Mexico (Leones Negros) - 23
6. Alex Meret, Italy (Napoli) - 22
7. Rubén Blanco, Spain (Celta de Vigo) - 23
8. Roberto Ramirez, Argentina (Godoy Cruz) - 22
9. Simone Scuffet, Italy (Udinese Calcio) - 23
10. Daniel Mesenhöler, Germany (MSV Duisburg) - 23

One to Watch: Ionut Radu. Italy has a pair of young, exciting goalkeepers at two of its more prominent clubs. Radu, who recently sent shockwaves throughout the soccer community for his heartfelt tribute to his sister, is in contention to put Romania into the 2020 Olympics with the U23 side. Woolwich reportedly has interest in the young goalkeeper but he’s also been public about returning to Genoa as a positive situation. If it’s not Woolwich, Radu will have his pick of the lot sooner than later.


11. Toma Niga, Romania (FCSB) - 21
12. André Onana, Cameroon (Ajax, NET) - 23
13. Adrian Semper, Croatia (Dinamo Zagreb) - 21
14. Luca Zidane, France (Real Madrid, SPA) - 21
15. Tiepo, Brazil (Chapecoense) - 21
16. Denis Scherbitski, Belarus (BATE Borisov) - 23
17. Dragan Rosic, Serbia (Mladost) - 22
18. Arijanet Muric, Kosovo (Manchester City, ENG) - 20
19. Boris Radunović, Serbia (Atalanta, ITA) - 23
20. Emil Audero, Italy (Sampdoria) - 22

One to Watch: Arijanet Muric. American fans might be familiar with Zack Steffen’s move to Manchester City but it’s Muric’s rise to power that viewers should watch closely. At 20 years young, Muric has already been capped five times by Kosovo, proving how goalkeepers can come from even the 121st ranked nations. A shocking 4-0-2 run by Kosovo, paired with a +29 jump in Elo rankings, promoted them to League C in the UEFA Nations League and could be a sign of more things to come.


21. Alexander Nübel, Germany (FC Schalke 04) - 22
22. Ugurcan Caki, Turkey (Trabzonspor) - 23
23. Joe Wildsmith, England (Sheffield Wednesday) - 23
24. Mike Maignan, France (Lille) - 23
25. Angus Gunn, England (Southampton) - 23
26. Andrea Zaccagno, Italy (Torino) - 22
27. Alban Lafont, France (Fiorentina, ITA) - 20
28. Álex Dos Santos, Brazil (Atlético Madrid, SPA) - 20
29. Andriy Lunin, Ukraine (Real Madrid, SPA) - 20
30. Gregor Kobel, Switzerland (Hoffenheim, GER) - 21

One to Watch: Andriy Lunin. Lunin managed to earn five starts for CD Leganés last season (where he was loaned from Real Madrid) but his biggest achievement came this summer, where he led Ukraine in goal during their championship run in the U20 World Cup. Lunin was given the Golden Glove in the U20 tournament after conceding just four goals in seven games. After originally being slated to go back out on loan to Leganés, Goal.com says Lunin is a likely candidate for the number two with Real Madrid. Fans may not get to watch much of Lunin during league play yet again but he’ll surely get his chance to prove his merit in various cup matches throughout the season.

31. Per Kristian Bratveit, Norway (Djurgarden, SWE) - 23
32. Nordin Jackers, Belgium (Genk) - 21
33. David Raya, Spain (Blackburn Rovers, ENG) - 23
34. Josip Posavec, Croatia (Hajduk Split) - 23
35. José Aurelio Suárez, Spain (Girona) - 23
36. Phillip Menzel, Germany (Wolfsburg) - 20
37. Anton Mitryushkin, Russia (Sion, SWI) - 23
38. Alexander Schlager, Austria (LASK) - 23
39. Sondre Rossbach, Norway (Odds) - 23
40. Mile Svilar, Belgium (Benfica, POR) - 19

One to Watch: Phillip Menzel. Wolfsburg’s reserve team just missed promotion with a tightly contested battle with Bayern Munich’s second team. Menzel’s tenure in the fourth division was still largely successful, compiling a 24-4-2 record throughout the season. Wolfsburg may look to send him back with the reserve side or, as Sportbuzzer reports, a loan to a third division side could be a natural progression for the German U20 goalkeeper. For those unfamiliar with Menzel’s game, think Lukasz Fabianski. It can be a little clunky at times, but the U20 German goalkeeper has an uncanny nose for the ball and a Michael Jordan hangtime-esque extension save. While first-team chances are close to zero for the time being, it’s more of a “not if but when” situation with Menzel.

41. Altay Bayindir, Turkey (Ankaragücü) - 21
42. Sebastian Jurado, Mexico (Tiburones Rojos) - 21
43. Justin Bijlow, Netherlands (Feyenoord) - 21
44. Antonio Sivera, Spain (Alavés) - 22
45. Nils Körber, Germany (Osnabruck) - 22
46. Rok Vodisek, Slovenia (Genoa, ITA) - 20
47. Pontus Dahlberg, Sweden (Watford, ENG) - 20
48. Javier Belman, Spain (Real Madrid) - 20
49. Dominik Kotarski, Croatia (Ajax, Netherlands) - 19
50. Michele Di Gregorio, Italy (Inter) - 21

One to Watch: Pontus Dahlberg. For Watford fans, Dahlberg has been a non-factor since joining the club 18 months ago and has probably been forgotten by some of the supporters. However Dahlberg picked up his first cap with the Swedish national team in January and followed up the 1-1 tie to Estonia by just barely missing the cutoff for the European Under-21 Championship. Dahlberg, who has been sitting for some time with Watford, seems prime to be loaned out and begin being groomed for the starting position for the Hornets.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
If we can keep the squad nucleus of Foyth, Sanchez, Winks, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas & Kane together for as long as possible we will be OK. I'm not saying that all of those are the future first XI, but all of them are absolutely fine be to add young and good quality deothntp the squad a team the very least.

Lloris, Walker-Peters, Aurier, Rose, Davies, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Sissoko, Dier, Wanyama, Lamela & Eriksen are for me on borrowed time, I'm talking 1-2 more seasons max before we simp,y need to focus on either letting he, go or seeking as reasonable value. We could have got £40m+ for Dier a season or two ago, we'd never get anything near that now. We need to be streetwise and read between the lines as to when the best time to sell certain players is.

The gaffer needs to do what he can to integrate Skipp & Parrott into the first team squad/ bench by the end of the season. There we have two ready made players who can add to the depth, meaning we can focus on using our money in more pressing areas like at fullback, CB and eventually GK.

If our future squads can be built around Gazzaniga, Foyth, Sanchez, Walker-Peters (if he shows signs of it as the season goes on) Winks, Skipp, Ndombele, Sessegnon, Lo Celso, Dele, Son, Lucas, Clarke, Parrott & Kane that gives us 15 players we don't need to touch in a 25 man squad 16, possibly 17 with Dier and Davies who I might have been a little harsh on, with 8-10 required.

1 gk, 1-2 right backs, 2 cbs, 0-1 left backs, 1 dm, 1 cm, 1 am and potentially 1 fwd required if one of the younger ones aren't able to hack it at this level. Our choices are simple, we use the current base as our new spine and become a 6-7th place team or we use the current nucleus as fringe options/ depth and we focus on building a brand new spine. I don't want think we require backward steps at present,mew need to focus on first team starters and because of this, I think the rebuild will take 2 seasons, this Jan window, the summer and the summer after that.
Click to expand...

Past mistakes are coming back to haunt us - about 6 years ago we sold David Button (club trained GK) for £500k since when he's had a decent career at Fulham and Brentford playing some 200 games before becoming back up GK at PL Brighton. And we sold Button to accommodate 3 overseas trained GKs (then Gomez Friedel and a young Lloris). Since then we have missed a few opportunities to buy decent but not not world beating English goalkeepers with PL experience for the 3rd GK position.

Whilst Alfie Whiteman (just 21), Brandon Austin ( just called up for E u21') and Jon De Bie (almost 20) have all looked decent in youth teams, none have played men's football other than a few games in the EFL Trophy v League 1 and 2 opposition for Spurs u23s. Yet all would have benefitted from loans to gain experience. Whiteman went on the pre season tour 2019 but didn't play for even one minute.

So whilst Whiteman was de facto 3rd GK this season, directly Lloris got injured, there was pretty much no option other than to re-sign free agent Michael Vorm as having Whiteman as back up with no experience was far too much of a risk, especially if Gazzaniga was unwell at any time.

The problem fundamentally is Spurs are back to having 3 overseas trained GKs - and we can only have 17 overseas trained players in the squad. And according to CL rules we have 18 and according to PL rules we have 17 such players.

Whichever competition we are looking at, now we have to include Vorm we have no spare spaces in he squad for overseas trained players ( but a couple of HG spaces free).

That means that in January to sign any overseas trained player we need to :

1. Sell one or both Wanyama and/or Aurier (these being our least productive players)
Or
2. Sell one or more of Alderweireld, Vertonghen or Eriksen, all of whose contracts expire at the end of the season
Or
3. Sell one or more of the fringe players who we would probably prefer to keep at least until the summer - my guess would be Dier, Sissoko and/ or Lamela.

Not properly managing the squad and clogging it up with overseas trained players is coming back to bite us.

Similarly the lack of any coherent strategy to develop our academy players between the ages of 18 and 22 (when they are either first team material or have been sold) is equally coming back to bite us. Had Whiteman been sent on loan 2 years ago he might have been a viable no 3 GK for us ( meaning Vorms return would not be necessary)....and 6 years ago had we valued HG players we should have retained Button as 3rd GK (and if not bought an HG player as 3rd GK.

January TW is not going to be easy for us to make progress, given that in the summer Wanyama and Aurier both found ways to avoid being sold.
 
Vorm is not in the CL squad now and can only join it at the end of january by which time Lloris should be fit. Whilst signed to the end of the season he will not play in 2020 unless Lloris takes longer to get fit or gazza gets injured, I very much doubt he will be in the CL squad.
 
bus-conductor said:
There's nothing wrong with this squad a decent GK, LB, RB, pair of CB's, Good footballing 6 and a couple of composed intelligent AM's couldn't fix.
Click to expand...

It's a squad full of good footballing ability. My biggest issue is how much of it is genuine quality for first team elite football.

We have 14-15 players who are good enough for any squad in the world, yet only 3-4 that are good enough for any first XI in the world. I think that's where we fall out of bed but overall it's a healthy looking squad, it just needs 6-8 really astute signings made across the next season or two
 
Spursidol said:
Past mistakes are coming back to haunt us - about 6 years ago we sold David Button (club trained GK) for £500k since when he's had a decent career at Fulham and Brentford playing some 200 games before becoming back up GK at PL Brighton. And we sold Button to accommodate 3 overseas trained GKs (then Gomez Friedel and a young Lloris). Since then we have missed a few opportunities to buy decent but not not world beating English goalkeepers with PL experience for the 3rd GK position.

Whilst Alfie Whiteman (just 21), Brandon Austin ( just called up for E u21') and Jon De Bie (almost 20) have all looked decent in youth teams, none have played men's football other than a few games in the EFL Trophy v League 1 and 2 opposition for Spurs u23s. Yet all would have benefitted from loans to gain experience. Whiteman went on the pre season tour 2019 but didn't play for even one minute.

So whilst Whiteman was de facto 3rd GK this season, directly Lloris got injured, there was pretty much no option other than to re-sign free agent Michael Vorm as having Whiteman as back up with no experience was far too much of a risk, especially if Gazzaniga was unwell at any time.

The problem fundamentally is Spurs are back to having 3 overseas trained GKs - and we can only have 17 overseas trained players in the squad. And according to CL rules we have 18 and according to PL rules we have 17 such players.

Whichever competition we are looking at, now we have to include Vorm we have no spare spaces in he squad for overseas trained players ( but a couple of HG spaces free).

That means that in January to sign any overseas trained player we need to :

1. Sell one or both Wanyama and/or Aurier (these being our least productive players)
Or
2. Sell one or more of Alderweireld, Vertonghen or Eriksen, all of whose contracts expire at the end of the season
Or
3. Sell one or more of the fringe players who we would probably prefer to keep at least until the summer - my guess would be Dier, Sissoko and/ or Lamela.

Not properly managing the squad and clogging it up with overseas trained players is coming back to bite us.

Similarly the lack of any coherent strategy to develop our academy players between the ages of 18 and 22 (when they are either first team material or have been sold) is equally coming back to bite us. Had Whiteman been sent on loan 2 years ago he might have been a viable no 3 GK for us ( meaning Vorms return would not be necessary)....and 6 years ago had we valued HG players we should have retained Button as 3rd GK (and if not bought an HG player as 3rd GK.

January TW is not going to be easy for us to make progress, given that in the summer Wanyama and Aurier both found ways to avoid being sold.
Click to expand...


Nailed it.

There seems to be no coherent strategy whatsoever.

Surely Inglethorpe wasn't the architect of the 1st team building strategy
 
A number of moves fell through in the summer; as a result we were not able to sign replacements. We clearly tried for Dybala which shows our intent.

Rose to Watford
Toby to Roma
Aurier to ??
Wanyama to ??
Eriksen to ??

I also understand that Jan and Moura had permission to talk to other clubs.

I'm sure Poch and Levy have a roadmap which doesn't include many of our popular players; so a difficult transition period is inevitable.
 
harry7 said:
A number of moves fell through in the summer; as a result we were not able to sign replacements. We clearly tried for Dybala which shows our intent.

Rose to Watford
Toby to Roma
Aurier to ??
Wanyama to ??
Eriksen to ??

I also understand that Jan and Moura had permission to talk to other clubs.

I'm sure Poch and Levy have a roadmap which doesn't include many of our popular players; so a difficult transition period is inevitable.
Click to expand...

Wanyama has a contract until 2021, widely reported in the summer (via Belgian Press) that Spurs/Bruges had agreed a deal at circa £13m and it was thought Wanyama had agreed wages at £65k pw, plus the Bruges manager was a former team mate of Wanyama and the two were friendly. But Wanyama backed out right at the end of TW rather than signing.

Seemed an almost perfect deal, and its not going to be easy to find a better one imo. And his contract runs to 2021......so not going to be easy to force him out.

Aurier's contract runs to 2022, not sure he was really linked to anyone in the summer, possibly because he injured himself on international duty (broke his hand) plus got a hamstring injury. Will he leave easily ?

Eriksen, Vertonghen and Alderweireld all have contracts ending in the summer and can sign precontracts in January with overseas clubs. Ball is really out of Spurs hands now - other than if a player signs a precontract in January whether the new club will pay a (small) fee to take the player in January. But of course we would struggle with numbers of CB's to let both CB's go without recruiting a CB, and we'd certainly want to recruit if Eriksen left, even though Lo Celso might be considered his replacement, even though he's yet to start for Spurs yet.

So January will be a tough (and unpredictable) TW to get players out, and hence players in.

And summer will not be easy with the euros which will take up the whole summer from mid July to the start of preseason with the competition and 3 weeks leave thereafter - leaving players with next to no pre-season.

So a very difficult transition period
 
NorseYid said:
Nailed it.

There seems to be no coherent strategy whatsoever.

Surely Inglethorpe wasn't the architect of the 1st team building strategy
Click to expand...
So flogging off a journeyman keeper who has ended up as second choice at Brighton is a sign of incoherent strategy is it?

Sign yourself up for the apprentice straight away, Sugar would love insights like that.
 
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