Our Squad 2019/20 - and the Rebuild !

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Shocking that we are having to rebuild when in fact we should be evolving.

Here comes another 3-5 year plan...

Not really seeing as players do age and there's a shelf life for everyone.

Dembele, Trippier, Vertonghen, Rose, Alderweireld, alll have reached their peaks with us probably and time waits for no man. The only issue we have is Eriksen wanting to stick to his career plan which was to play in La Liga at some stage. If I know that this has been something he was open to doing ages ago then the club should have known there was a genuine possibility it would happen.

We ain't in bad nick. Our nucleus moving forward will still be Lloris, Sanchez, Foyth, Davies, Sessegnon, Winks, Ndombele, Dele, Lo Celso, Clarke, Son, Lucas & Kane. All have plenty of years left at the top, plenty of time to run on their contracts and the majority that are young in that group have plenty of scope to develop further still.

The biggest shame is that those 1-2 seasons where we had such a well balanced team that we couldn't get just one trophy over the line. If we can keep our squad growing around the 12 players mentioned in the last paragraph it will continue to evolve, just around a younger group instead of the old crew like Toby, Jan & Christian.
 
Not really seeing as players do age and there's a shelf life for everyone.

Dembele, Trippier, Vertonghen, Rose, Alderweireld, alll have reached their peaks with us probably and time waits for no man. The only issue we have is Eriksen wanting to stick to his career plan which was to play in La Liga at some stage. If I know that this has been something he was open to doing ages ago then the club should have known there was a genuine possibility it would happen.

We ain't in bad nick. Our nucleus moving forward will still be Lloris, Sanchez, Foyth, Davies, Sessegnon, Winks, Ndombele, Dele, Lo Celso, Clarke, Son, Lucas & Kane. All have plenty of years left at the top, plenty of time to run on their contracts and the majority that are young in that group have plenty of scope to develop further still.

The biggest shame is that those 1-2 seasons where we had such a well balanced team that we couldn't get just one trophy over the line. If we can keep our squad growing around the 12 players mentioned in the last paragraph it will continue to evolve, just around a younger group instead of the old crew like Toby, Jan & Christian.
The players to take over from those at the end of their 'shelf life' should already be in place hence my use of the word evolving.
 
The players to take over from those at the end of their 'shelf life' should already be in place hence my use of the word evolving.

They are and have been for a while, it's just that some of them haven't progressed how we hoped they would.

Sanchez and Foyth are in their 3rd season with us now. Both were clearly signed to cover the ageing Jan & Toby but at present haven't done enough to convince like signings occasionally don't.

Ndombele is our Dembele replacement, no issues as it stands here.

Lo Celso will probably be someone who can fill in for Eriksen even if he's not a like for like. This is one area that I do think we have left ourselves short but then again, show me someone that fits the Eriksen mound in our team that we can replace him with? Not many of this kind of player about.

The issues still exist that existed when we had our best XI which to me was Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele & Kane. For a team like us, trying to find upgrades on any of those was near on impossible and the signings we have made thereafter have shown that to be true.

The sooner we all accept that Walker wanted out, Rose got a bit frumpy and not as sharp, the two Belgians got older, Dier & Wanyama in typical Spurs fashion got long term injuries at the same time, Dembele's legs went & Eriksen chose to stick to his career plan the better.

We say about evolution but name me any glaringly obvious players that have moved to a club, that are/ were obtainable that we missed out on that would have bettered that starting XI.

It's a tricky one and the club have tried to cut corners a little bit yes but every singing comes with risk and for me I think we had our core all come good all at once which is a rare thing in football. It's just a huge shame that they all have nothing to show for it.

Fascinating times on the evolution of the team. For me as it stands we need 3-4 more for the first team over the next 12 months or we do risk going backwards over relying on punts that seemingly haven't fulfilled their potential as of yet. A big year for Walker-Peters, Aurier if he stays (which I don't think he will personally), Sanchez, Foyth & Winks. All of them need to add to their game or they won't have a genuine long term future being starters at Spurs.
 
Shocking that we are having to rebuild when in fact we should be evolving.

Here comes another 3-5 year plan...

Poch himself said he signed up for a 5 year plan originally - and at the end of last season referred to another ( is second ) 5 year plan and a " painful rebuild".

The '"rebuild" phrase is in the title of the thread but in truth imo what we need is more than a refresh and less than s rebuild as we are talking about maybe 4 - 8 players over a 2 summer period going - with a mix of contract situations and age being the major causes - although there are individual reasons for each player, so Aurier is one who might move as he's not the player we thought we were buying, Wanyama is all about injuries etc.

It's difficult to completely evolve within the constraints of a 25 man squad - but one area where we could certainly do better is to bring one or more youngsters through ( mainly from he academy) every season as that would bring genuine evolution. Although notoriously tricky it's certainly possible - TAA at Liverpool is a good example although him getting a chance owed a lot to injuries.

And reality is that contractsise the players have a stronger position than the club - hence the current uncertainty over Eriksen, Alderweireld,Vertonghen and Rose - but the club have brought in Lo Celso, Sanchez, Foyth and Sessegnon over the last couple of years to help move things from a rebuild towards being an evolution. But it is always difficult replacing first team players as invariably any "deputies" brought to Spurs in advance of the first teamer departing has less experience and is seen as less good - some will be less good but others may be better....and nobody usually knows in advance if the first teamer leaving.

The other issue is of course age - most players have a finite playing time of maybe 10 years from age 22 to 32 going from "bedding in to the squad" to superstar ( or mistaken buy ?).

But with a core squad to build round of around 16 - 18 players to build round we are not in bad shape. My sense as well is that we are trying to improve the quality of the squad overall, which is why Poch refers to it as a rebuild.
 
Apparently Toby looking to stay which would be great news. Another year for Vertonghen and our centre of defence would look ok for this and next season. Nothing wrong with 2 x CB in their 30’s. Would enable Sanchez and Foyth to get more experience playing with them. Possibly Dier as well.
Everyone seems to have given up on Dier because of one bad season, which was part due to injuries and dodgy appendix. Our system used to work well with Dier dropping into a back 3 and full backs right up the pitch when we had the ball. Back into midfield when we lost it.
He might end up at FB on Sunday .
Hope Tanganga gets some league cup games as he did look good in the friendlies, unexpected to say the least.
 
OP now updated to reflect Eriksen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Wanyama staying - although if any of them get a new contract that might change things again.
 
I’d like to say, I think the criticism towards Levy/Poch for the handling of RB is unfair. They sold Trippier who Poch clearly did not like as a player. And neither did the fans. His replacement was already on the squad. Foyth. His backup was going to be KWP. That was the plan. Unfortunately both players went down with injuries. Something Poch has no control over. Yet all I hear is people blaming him for not having a RB right now.
 
I’d like to say, I think the criticism towards Levy/Poch for the handling of RB is unfair. They sold Trippier who Poch clearly did not like as a player. And neither did the fans. His replacement was already on the squad. Foyth. His backup was going to be KWP. That was the plan. Unfortunately both players went down with injuries. Something Poch has no control over. Yet all I hear is people blaming him for not having a RB right now.

If you want to win the league; or indeed a trophy is it wise to go into a season with 2 players (Foyth/KWP) rotating in a position in which they have never had a full season? In fact Foyth has only played a handful of games at RB.

I'd prefer to think that Aurier is the preferred right back.
 
Oliver Skipp - 18
Jack Clarke - 18
Ryan Sessegnon - 19
Troy Parrott - 17
Juan Foyth - 21
Tanguy Ndombele - 22
Kyle Walker-Peters - 22
Davinson Sanchez - 23
Dele Alli - 23
Giovani Lo Celso - 23
Harry Winks - 23

11 members of our squad who have every chance of making it at the top of the game, all still able to play for our youth/ development team in games. We also have impressive sounding talent in our youth set up in the form of Harvey White, Dennis Cirkin, Max Robson etc

Add one of our youth goalkeepers into it and we could actually see this team play in a 4-3-2-1 (GK, KWP, Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon, Skipp, Winks, Ndombele, Dele, Lo Celso, Parrott) Clarke wouldn't even make the starting XI!

That's an excellent looking spine for the manager to build around over the next 5-8 years, without even considering the guys like Lucas, Sonny, Kane, Dier etc who are still only mid 20s. The first cycle of moving the old guard on started with Dembele, next will be Jan, probably Toby & Eriksen but I doubt many teams in the PL have what must be about £300m+ worth of player they can throw into an U23 match if need be.

Decent long term planning right there, we just need a few to kick on a little more than they have done to date.
 
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Shocking that we are having to rebuild when in fact we should be evolving.

Here comes another 3-5 year plan...

The reason we have a rebuild rather than evolve is that we where probably far too inactive in the market for 2-3 seasons so rather bring players in, train them and have them gradually take over we have had to go down this route.

The window was good, 3 top players in Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sess, but they will take time to integrate. At the same time we will be preparing for other players like Rose to leave.

The club has been through a brutal period in terms of the whole stadium. I expect we will be better in the transfer market and development going forward without that huge pressure.
 
1st TEAM2nd TEAM3rd TEAM
LLORISGAZZANIGA
FOYTHKWP/CLARKE?AURIER
ROSE/SESSEGNONDAVIES
ALDERWEIRELDSANCHEZ
VERTONGHEN TANGANGA
SISSOKO DIER
NDOMBELEWINKSWANYAMA
LO CELSO/ERIKSENSKIPP
DELELAMELA/CLARKE?
SON LUCAS
KANEPARROTT
 
The failure to get Ndombele and de Jong in the summer of 2018 threw off the timing of a lot of stuff. But that was just how things worked out. We had a pretty good summer all-around. Brought in two excellent midfielders, a couple of exciting wide players for the future and didn't lose anyone important. Would've been nice if we could've lightened the squad a bit more via selling Aurier and Wanyama as well, but that's life.
Really no squad should ever stop evolving, although last year was a bit of a wild leap into the unknown for us. It worked, sort of, but that was mostly by luck. We learned our lesson, and seem to have upped our game pretty well.
 
I’d like to say, I think the criticism towards Levy/Poch for the handling of RB is unfair. They sold Trippier who Poch clearly did not like as a player. And neither did the fans. His replacement was already on the squad. Foyth. His backup was going to be KWP. That was the plan. Unfortunately both players went down with injuries. Something Poch has no control over. Yet all I hear is people blaming him for not having a RB right now.

If Foyth was planA then Poch deserved the criticism.
 
1st TEAM2nd TEAM3rd TEAM
LLORISGAZZANIGA
FOYTHKWP/CLARKE?AURIER
ROSE/SESSEGNONDAVIES
ALDERWEIRELDSANCHEZ
VERTONGHENTANGANGA
SISSOKODIER
NDOMBELEWINKSWANYAMA
LO CELSO/ERIKSENSKIPP
DELELAMELA/CLARKE?
SONLUCAS
KANEPARROTT


Not sure why Aurier is down as 3rd choice. He is miles ahead of Foyth/KWP in terms of quality. I suspect he hasn't been in squad since he played a summer tournament and got an injury - so probably is not 100% fit. Since it is not common to rotate full backs during a game; we can't risk starting a player who can't play 90 minutes.

Sanchez has to be first choice this season at CB if we are evolve the squad.

Sissoko should not be 1st choice. He cannot pass the ball and that is a requisite for a team that plays out from the back. Winks or Dier playing along side Ndombele.
 
They are and have been for a while, it's just that some of them haven't progressed how we hoped they would.

Sanchez and Foyth are in their 3rd season with us now. Both were clearly signed to cover the ageing Jan & Toby but at present haven't done enough to convince like signings occasionally don't.

Ndombele is our Dembele replacement, no issues as it stands here.

Lo Celso will probably be someone who can fill in for Eriksen even if he's not a like for like. This is one area that I do think we have left ourselves short but then again, show me someone that fits the Eriksen mound in our team that we can replace him with? Not many of this kind of player about.

The issues still exist that existed when we had our best XI which to me was Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Dele & Kane. For a team like us, trying to find upgrades on any of those was near on impossible and the signings we have made thereafter have shown that to be true.

The sooner we all accept that Walker wanted out, Rose got a bit frumpy and not as sharp, the two Belgians got older, Dier & Wanyama in typical Spurs fashion got long term injuries at the same time, Dembele's legs went & Eriksen chose to stick to his career plan the better.

We say about evolution but name me any glaringly obvious players that have moved to a club, that are/ were obtainable that we missed out on that would have bettered that starting XI.

It's a tricky one and the club have tried to cut corners a little bit yes but every singing comes with risk and for me I think we had our core all come good all at once which is a rare thing in football. It's just a huge shame that they all have nothing to show for it.

Fascinating times on the evolution of the team. For me as it stands we need 3-4 more for the first team over the next 12 months or we do risk going backwards over relying on punts that seemingly haven't fulfilled their potential as of yet. A big year for Walker-Peters, Aurier if he stays (which I don't think he will personally), Sanchez, Foyth & Winks. All of them need to add to their game or they won't have a genuine long term future being starters at Spurs.
Ndombele is not a Dembele replacement. They have different abilities
 
Not sure why Aurier is down as 3rd choice. He is miles ahead of Foyth/KWP in terms of quality. I suspect he hasn't been in squad since he played a summer tournament and got an injury - so probably is not 100% fit. Since it is not common to rotate full backs during a game; we can't risk starting a player who can't play 90 minutes.

Sanchez has to be first choice this season at CB if we are evolve the squad.

Sissoko should not be 1st choice. He cannot pass the ball and that is a requisite for a team that plays out from the back. Winks or Dier playing along side Ndombele.
He has been in the squad and on the bench numerous times he just is not being selected.

Poch wants him gone for some reason or another.
 
Not an obvious place for this, so putting it in the Squad thread :


For all Spurs alleged shortcomings in maintaining a good squad, its pleasing to note that FIFA have 3 Spurs players (Kane, Son and Eriksen) listed amongst the 55 best players in the world.

Obviously pleased for each of them - but having 3 of the 55 best players in the world (as judged by FIFA) in Spurs squad shows that Spurs are doing something right.

And it suggests that other good players will be happy to join Spurs so as to play with other top players (maybe one of the reasons that Ndomebele and LO Celso joined), and reinforces the belief that we have a good core of players in the squad to build round. Might help of course if Eriksen signed another contract with us but plenty of time for that now the TW's in major European countries have closed.
 
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