Olympiacos vs Tottenham Hotspur (18th September @ 17:55)

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Every week you want Moura to play with Son and Kane :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Lucas Moura the man you described as:

He's a pea brain because his movement is unintelligent, he runs into blind alleys instead of getting his head up and making a simple pass (hence him losing the ball so often) and he creates absolutely fuck all for his team mates.

Doesn't quite make sense that does it ??
You could say the same for Son, who I said was capable of brilliance one week and not being able to trap the ball for the next three.

But those two - along with Lamela (who to be fair I probably advocate in my from three more than Moura, and I’ve been pretty scathing about Lamela too) are the only real options we have to play that way.

If you remember, earlier today I said to you Moura was always a wide forward (in PSG’s ) 433.

I’d rather we never bought him, or upgraded him altogether, but until then, if we are going to play the 433 I’d like, then it’s him, Son and Lamela for the two wide forward places.
 

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Borodin55

Carpe Diem
You could say the same for Son, who I said was capable of brilliance one week and not being able to trap the ball for the next three.

But those two - along with Lamela (who to be fair I probably advocate in my from three more than Moura) are the only real options we have to play that way.

If you remember, earlier today I said to you Moura was always a wide forward (in PSG’s ) 433.

I’d rather we never bought him, or upgraded him altogether, but until then, if we are going to play the 433 I’d like, then it’s him, Son and Lamela for the two wide forward places.
With the greatest respect "capable of brilliance one week and not being able to trap the ball for the next three. " is hardly saying the same as "his movement is unintelligent, he runs into blind alleys and he creates absolutely fuck all for his team mates".

If I was Poch and one of my scouts came back with such damming observations as you have given Lucas then he would never put on a shirt again. I very obviously do not share your views about Moura and would still like to know how much of his appearance time last season (2128 minutes) was as a substitute and how much actually starting a game please.
 
With the greatest respect "capable of brilliance one week and not being able to trap the ball for the next three. " is hardly saying the same as "his movement is unintelligent, he runs into blind alleys and he creates absolutely fuck all for his team mates".

If I was Poch and one of my scouts came back with such damming observations as you have given Lucas then he would never put on a shirt again. I very obviously do not share your views about Moura and would still like to know how much of his appearance time last season (2128 minutes) was as a substitute and how much actually starting a game please.
You’re going to have to dig that out for yourself. I’m not sure what difference it makes. Although maybe coming on and running at tired legs would be easier than doing it when starting against fresh bus parked ones?
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
You’re going to have to dig that out for yourself. I’m not sure what difference it makes. Although maybe coming on and running at tired legs would be easier than doing it when starting against fresh bus parked ones?
Having 90 minutes to pass the ball, possess it and use it to score a goal with is a bit different to coming on when your side is perhaps at least one goal behind and only having 15/20 minutes to try and change things, fresh legs or not. I would not expect any player who came on for four twenty minute blocks and a ten minute spell as a substitute to have anywhere near the same stats as someone who played for a full 90.
 
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Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Last season Moura made 32 appearances which would have been 2880 minutes for full games but he only did 2128 minutes (your figure not mine). 2128 minutes equates to just over 23.5 matches. In that time he scored 10 goals. Having appeared 32 times but only actually playing for total of 23.5 games in real time would suggest he was a substitute on quite a few occasions....not a bad goal haul considering.

Sorry to persist but I found your description of him unnecessarily insultive. Give the guy a fair crack of the whip and see how he performs, maybe afterwards I will agree with you. Time will tell if Poch just gives him some though.
 
Having 90 minutes to pass the ball, possess it and use it to score a goal with is a bit different to coming on when your side is perhaps at least one goal behind and only having 15/20 minutes to try and change things, fresh legs or not. I would not expect any player who came on for four twenty minute blocks and a ten minute spell as a substitute to have anywhere near the same stats as someone who played for a full 90.
Moura started 25 games, Son 23.
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Moura started 25 games, Son 23.
Many thanks for that....I have just managed to find these figures...

Be interesting to see how many minutes Eriksen played in his 35 appearances and 8 goals.
 

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Airfixx

Cherub
Attack should have been built around him Son and Kane a year ago
Peeps keep telling me that the 3 can't play together.... IMO coach it properly and it'd be lethal.

Winks (Lo Celso) / Skipp (Dier) / Ndombele (Eriksen)
Lucas / Kane / Son​

.....Balance, energy, pace, guile, creativity and we'd still have Dele, Lamela & Parrot for front 3 depth.
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Peeps keep telling me that the 3 can't play together.... IMO coach it properly and it'd be lethal.

Winks (Lo Celso) / Skipp (Dier) / Ndombele (Eriksen)
Lucas / Kane / Son​

.....Balance, energy, pace, guile, creativity and we'd still have Dele, Lamela & Parrot for front 3 depth.
Get that CV ready mate, I'll pay for the stamp :thumbup:....totally agree.
 
Peeps keep telling me that the 3 can't play together.... IMO coach it properly and it'd be lethal.

Winks (Lo Celso) / Skipp (Dier) / Ndombele (Eriksen)
Lucas / Kane / Son​

.....Balance, energy, pace, guile, creativity and we'd still have Dele, Lamela & Parrot for front 3 depth.
Southgate would make that work.....Klopp would win the PL with that front three.

But Poch can’t make it work so no one can....
 
Last season Moura made 32 appearances which would have been 2880 minutes for full games but he only did 2128 minutes (your figure not mine). 2128 minutes equates to just over 23.5 matches. In that time he scored 10 goals. Having appeared 32 times but only actually playing for total of 23.5 games in real time would suggest he was a substitute on quite a few occasions....not a bad goal haul considering.

Sorry to persist but I found your description of him unnecessarily insultive. Give the guy a fair crack of the whip and see how he performs, maybe afterwards I will agree with you. Time will tell if Poch just gives him some though.
Plus he scored a cracker in Athens.
 
Many thanks for that....I have just managed to find these figures...

Be interesting to see how many minutes Eriksen played in his 35 appearances and 8 goals.
2772. And he also got 12 assists and created more chances per game than Moura and Son combined, as well as getting through more ball per game than Moura and Son combined.
 
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Borodin55

Carpe Diem
2772. And he also got 12 assists and created more chances per game than Moura and Son, as well as getting through more ball per game than Moura and Son combined.
Thanks for that. I'm afraid I honestly cannot see how you can compare possession/chances created and assists for Eriksen who is a 'creative midfielder' and recognised forward attacking players. Harry Kane only had 4 assists last season for example but managed 17 goals in 28 appearances. Statistics are rather like finances, the figures can be 'massaged' to suit whatever you wish them to as you and I both know.

I would imagine Lloris' possession figures are very high but that's because the ball is going backwards to him from the defenders and then being played out again.(Harry Kane last season totalled 551 passes...... Hugo Lloris 1,047). Eriksen's position means he is fed the ball from defence and from that create opportunities for the forwards. Being in midfield he will therefore naturally receive the ball far more than most other players because it will also include pass backs from thwarted attacks.

Attacking players like Kane, Moura and Son will be engaged in direct confrontation with the opposing defence in an attempt to break through so may well lose possession quite a bit when getting tackled . In short, it is impossible to compare game statistics for a player unless also comparing matching positions/similar roles.

Let's see what happens tomorrow, does Poch pick him to start and if he does how does he perform. He may well be Man Of The Match but equally he could be Dick Of The Week. All depends who turns up..Jekyll or Hyde.
 
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Statistics are rather like finances, the figures can be 'massaged' to suit whatever you wish them to as you and I both know.
This is a bullshit hackneyed cliche. Statistics don't ever lie, or are swayed by bias, unlike human emotions and opinions. But stats of course always need contextualising.

Thanks for that. I'm afraid I honestly cannot see how you can compare possession/chances created and assists for Eriksen who is a 'creative midfielder' and recognised forward attacking players. Harry Kane only had 4 assists last season for example but managed 17 goals in 28 appearances.

Attacking players like Kane, Moura and Son will be engaged in direct confrontation with the opposing defence in an attempt to break through so may well lose possession quite a bit when getting tackled . In short, it is impossible to compare game statistics for a player unless also comparing matching positions/similar roles.
The fact that Eriksen played a deeper midfield role, which involved getting through far more of the ball in build up, rather than in forward areas, should make it harder for him to assist and score, despite this he still managed to score/assist combined twice as much as Moura, despite Moura playing entirely in attacking areas, and he played 14 times as ARM/ALM - and still managed 0 assists.

I'm not saying they are similar players, or even that they play identical roles or positions often (but they have both played AM). Moura spent plenty of minutes as an AM. Part of that remit, part of any forward players remit is to create for others as well as get on the end of others creation. Moura cremates very little for anyone else. If he was a goal a game striker, that would be a payoff. But he isn't. Moura scored in 7 of his 25 starts.

Eriksen on the other hand contributes productively, creatively, scoring and assisting as well as doing a midfield job and all the extra work that involves and does this much more consistently and has for 5 years.

That's the context. That's why I don't understand the massive criticism of Eriksen yet you holding Moura in higher regard and not getting so angry about his contribution as Eriksen's, unless this is being led by emotion, not rationality.

Let's see what happens tomorrow, does Poch pick him to start and if he does how does he perform. He may well be Man Of The Match but equally he could be Dick Of The Week. All depends who turns up..Jekyll or Hyde.
Again, all the unbiased evidenced suggests Moura is more likely to win the latter and Eriksen the former, if we extract emotion and hurt feelings from the equation.
 

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Borodin55

Carpe Diem
This is a bullshit hackneyed cliche. Statistics don't ever lie, or are swayed by bias, unlike human emotions and opinions. But stats of course always need contextualising.



The fact that Eriksen played a deeper midfield role, which involved getting through far more of the ball in build up, rather than in forward areas, should make it harder for him to assist and score, despite this he still managed to score/assist combined twice as much as Moura, despite Moura playing entirely in attacking areas, and he played 14 times as ARM/ALM - and still managed 0 assists.

I'm not saying they are similar players, or even that they play identical roles or positions often (but they have both played AM). Moura spent plenty of minutes as an AM. Part of that remit, part of any forward players remit is to create for others as well as get on the end of others creation. Moura cremates very little for anyone else. If he was a goal a game striker, that would be a payoff. But he isn't. Moura scored in 7 of his 25 starts.

Eriksen on the other hand contributes productively, creatively, scoring and assisting as well as doing a midfield job and all the extra work that involves and does this much more consistently and has for 5 years.

That's the context. That's why I don't understand the massive criticism of Eriksen yet you holding Moura in higher regard and not getting so angry about his contribution as Eriksen's, unless this is being led by emotion, not rationality.



Again, all the unbiased evidenced suggests Moura is more likely to win the latter and Eriksen the former, if we extract emotion and hurt feelings from the equation.
Don't ever go horseracing.... favourites don't always win no matter how much more likely they are to......lets leave it at that. I am neither emotive or hurt about it I assure you.
 
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