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u are right. very childish, pointless & selfish of us involved. i will stick to spurs only chat. my final say on this is that i think poch was all wrong for us. the squad players didnt match his style of play. so if we got poch i assumed a mass turnover of players. this never happened so we are left with a squad who are all wrong fir the manager. feels like we wasted a season to find out the obvious answer to this question. but now we have got poch, id give him 2 more years. not because i think he is the man for the job. but because more change now is another risk & will be more time for transition needed. someone put it better when they said we made our bed so lie in it. i feel as though we made our bed but we cant fall asleep in it (thank u brand new for that line).with all due respect, can you take these squabbles elsewhere, so I don't spend the little time I have on-line having to dredge through totally irrelevant posts. I thank you all.
Again a well reasoned post. Not debating your points but playing Devil's Advocate on some of them: Klopp did take a couple of years to build a title winning side, the difference is that he did build a title winning side. Ok we're not talking about winning the title but, there's still not a lot on Poch's CV to say he'll definitely get so much better for sure.I am not going to neg rep you, but I do disagree, with both your position, and Sammy, and in fairness I will explain why.
As I said earlier in this thread, I think our squad is a patchwork mess, and I don't think there is a single coach available on the market who can solve that mess. Our players cannot function as a unit, and no matter what tactics or selections you make, someone will be either unhappy, or just won't be good enough.
I think a root and branch overhaul of the squad IS emphatically the only solution, and that will take time.
I also think there are no better choices for the big job than Pochettino for us. I like Klopp, he's our kind of guy, but if we were to fire Poche for him, we'd be back at square one, having wasted the last 12 months. It would also send out a moronic message to the organization that no matter what you do, you will be fired as we would have no patience for the hard work required.
We tend to forget that in our fury to blame Levy, or ENIC, or Pochettino, or the fans, or Adebayor, or Lamela or the tooth fairy that teams take time to be built into winners. Klopp didn't turn Dortmund into a title winner overnight. He needed two years of work before Dortmund was properly tilting at windmills. I would venture to say that anyone will need at least that long here as well.
I think our problems can be laid at the feet of ENIC for failing to build a long-term structure, and instead improvising solutions since 2008. We'd had the structure in place (DoF, Manager with successful pedigree, focus on youth), but then things collapsed. I don't know how much % to throw at Comolli, or Ramos, or Levy, but things didn't work out. I think we can all agree on that. The problem is that Daniel's first improvised fix ('arry and the amazing transfer wheeling and dealing of the next year and a half) didn't get followed up by anything. We'd suddenly lucked into a great squad who had a manager freakishly well-suited to them. It made no sense, but worked out better than anyone could have hoped.
But it wasn't a permanent thing. Redknapp didn't want a DoF, and that meant we didn't have any continuity to our decision making. We'd had Levy acting as a sort of DoF, but that frankly shouldn't have been his job, and it led to mistakes being made. Our squad fell apart through age, injuries and ambitions. We never were able to really address that because we didn't have the people behind the scenes who knew how to do that. Then, when Harry left, there was no one there to guide the replacement process. That led to AVB coming in with a system and approach to play that was at odds with Redknapp's. This led to a squad that wasn't completely suited to the manager, and we all saw what happened next. AVB couldn't make it work without the exact people he wanted, and we couldn't find those exact people. Then came the era of Tim.
Now we're at the point where Pochettino has arrived, with the specific role of head coach, but he found a club which still didn't have thenecessary resources there in the backroom. That's taken a year to address. In the meantime we have a squad which still doesn't suit a particular system, and also has a lot of competing cliques and egos who feel they're bigger than the manager (after seeing the last two guys out the door).
So Mauricio shows up in this mess with no resources, and a broken squad, but he's expected to turn it all around. He needed to take the summer to learn what kind of squad he had, and couldn't move the bad apples in time. Then, come January in a buyer's transfer market, we just couldn't get rid of them. That's not down to him, that was Baldini and Levy's job.
On the pitch, he was hired to get the team to play his way, and found a chunk of the squad mutinous when forced to do so. He couldn't ship them out, so was stuck playing with small group of players who either burnt out, or frankly weren't quite good enough for the roles they're in.
It's very easy to claim that he should swallow his pride and work with the exiled players, but the point is that would give them the same power they had with AVB and Tim. I think we can see that Pochettino feels comfortable that Levy backs his decision to dump them, from the fact that we're still seeing the same line-ups, despite the evident fatigue and problems.
The dunces are in the corner, and Pochettino is waiting until the end of term so that he can be rid of them and work with what remains to build a unified squad. I think we've been mediocre this year, but it was all that was possible under the circumstances. I think that Pochettino deserves the chance to build a team which will play the way he wants, and a year at least to actually lead them before a judgement can be made about if he's good enough or not.
With Klopp, before Dortmund he'd gotten Mainz 05 promoted, then relegated, and failed to promote them again. That's pretty much it.Again a well reasoned post. Not debating your points but playing Devil's Advocate on some of them: Klopp did take a couple of years to build a title winning side, the difference is that he did build a title winning side. Ok we're not talking about winning the title but, there's still not a lot on Poch's CV to say he'll definitely get so much better for sure.
As far as not knowing how to replace the parts of the squad that fell apart post Harry, I'd say there were chances to add quality to it when we were looking like the real deal, in the mix at the top and widely being touted as the best side in the league to watch (even by Sir Alex)....our Chairman knew better.
You're right, AVB never truly got who he wanted player wise, if he did then Moutinho was the main man, we all know that. Poch is already given so much grace for not getting Schneiderlin.
Arriving at a club with egos, cliques, not your players, along with raised expectation levels is often par for the course. If things weren't ideal squad wise and he didn't have the resources to overhaul it then he hasn't done a great job of managing or coaching who he has got overall in my opinion. For all the moaning that the squad is this and isn't that for him, we made 6th last year with more wins, less defeats and a better defence. That was with two managers (who were sacked!) and even more of our players in year one at the club, in the country even.
Surely there's a case for being more flexible about system, formation or personnel in order to not run players into the ground, destroying moral and confidence of them and others as they go on a prolonged,poor run, higher risk of injuries etc?
It's not like those he's identified who are adapting to his system are suddenly going to forget it all for a match or two, Jose sets Chelski up with all sorts of different tactical plans to win individual games when he has to. Most managers have plan b or c even if they're not used that often.
I never wanted AVB because it was obvious the press would hang him as soon as they could and pressure would be on him all the time given what happened at Chelsea, he wouldn't have got a fair crack of the whip without over-achieving. Added to that, I couldn't see how a failure at Chelsea with all their resource was a good thing but, he had winning a title and Europa on his CV, one 'easy' at Porto, the other fair play.
I didn't want Poch because I thought he had no real track record of anything and, we needed someone lower risk and to try and make the most of the squad we have where possible. I'll admit, I thought Benitez ticked most boxes: experienced, won things, commands some respect as he is a 'name', knows the league and language, far more proven and tactically astute than the other candidates that were mentioned.
Ok, sometimes his football has been questionable by some but, I'd say that's usually when he's had to make the most of what he has i.e. doing what it takes for results when he has to, when he has the tools he's attacking.
Anyway, that's all bollocks now. With Poch ones mostly concerned about a meeting with a Southampton fan who wasn't at all bitter about him moving on, more concerned that they would replace the players being sold. Something he said stands out, along the lines of; '"plan a is great when it works but, when you have West Brom camped out in their area and you can't get through them because there's no space and the pressing game is redundant, nothing is ever done that changes it or helps a breakthrough, that's when it's no good, no plan b".
That was just BEFORE he came to us.
Worrying to know that he hasnt learned, and appears to not even be trying to.a Southampton fan who wasn't at all bitter about him moving on, more concerned that they would replace the players being sold. Something he said stands out, along the lines of; '"plan a is great when it works but, when you have West Brom camped out in their area and you can't get through them because there's no space and the pressing game is redundant, nothing is ever done that changes it or helps a breakthrough, that's when it's no good, no plan b".
The style of play you are going to see is pretty to watch and its great to see you team having 60 + possession but dont be fooled by it , its possession pressing football not free flowing attacking football. You will see a lot of play across your backline and picking into the midfield and back.
we didnt win one game from behind last season , because once the opposition score they dont care if you have the ball.
As i said gutted he has gone he was good for Saints , but as one fan to another dont be fooled by the possession % it means nothing , goals for are everything .
Wish you luck with new season.
Having some free time, I actually browse through that thread. Some comments like he won't alienate his players, playing attractive football and not having enough depth was the reason for Southampton loss in form, we saw the alot of the opposite here and the same excuse used for his failures.People should read the first pages of the Pochettino thread. There was no major support for his appointment at any stage really, until he was appointed and then of course we all knew we had to stick with him for a couple of seasons. Apart from a few, it was only the 'anybody is better than Sherwood' camp that garnered him a few more backers. Some positive comments about him included........
.....he will be able to work with what he has got not ask for everyone to get sacked and replaced like sherwood.
......he recognizes the task of balancing the Europa and league.
......he plays attacking football whilst keeping it tight at the back.
Most agree we have to stick with him, some of us refuse to do that without at least raising concerns or voicing opinions about what we see as worrying or poor.
Sorry. Thought it was aimed at me.The same handful of cunt-trolls ruining every thread with the same pathetic, self-contradictory, proven as wrong countless of times, bullshit arguments