Moussa Sissoko

  • There is only one thing weirder than posting on internet forums... lurking on internet forums!
    Registration only takes a minute and removes most of the adverts. You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Moussa Dembele stats

2014-15 gls 1 Assists 1
2015-16 gls 3 Assists 1
2016-17 gls 1 Assists 1
2017-18 gls 0 Assists 0
2018-19 gls 0 Assists 0

Fucking useless cunt, glad he's going.
 

Register to remove

rutlandspur

Supporter
....I think you are mistaking yourself for someone with unique insight.

:pochserious2:
Well, I don't always agree with BC but I think you're all being a bit unfair on him with these ad hominem attacks.

Putting BC's prejudices aside for one moment, which bit of those Statsbomb charts, that contrast Sissoko's performances with our other midfielders, do you (not just you Airfixx, everyone) disagree with? Or are those stats either wrong or misleading (acknowledging, as BC has done, that stats aren't the whole story)?

Personally, I find them interesting and informative - and that doesn't mean that I'm 'criticising, or failing to support, one of our own players' or 'refusing to admit that Sissoko has improved or works hard'. There has to be nuance to the discussion surely?
 
Well, I don't always agree with BC but I think you're all being a bit unfair on him with these ad hominem attacks.

Putting BC's prejudices aside for one moment, which bit of those Statsbomb charts, that contrast Sissoko's performances with our other midfielders, do you (not just you Airfixx, everyone) disagree with? Or are those stats either wrong or misleading (acknowledging, as BC has done, that stats aren't the whole story)?

Personally, I find them interesting and informative - and that doesn't mean that I'm 'criticising, or failing to support, one of our own players' or 'refusing to admit that Sissoko has improved or works hard'. There has to be nuance to the discussion surely?
I get your point and I must admit that I have, in a light hearted way, criticised bus-conductor bus-conductor and I hope he knows that it is light hearted, from me anyway.
However I remember one game on his match thread where Sissoko got 68% of the votes for MOTM and some else in the same thread posted another poll where Sissoko got 65% (IIRC) of the vote.
BC was still adamant that Sissoko was fucking useless, or at least not good enough, in that game.

Opinions are one thing but to call that many fans, and I'm paraphrasing here, deluded, biased, or just plain wrong is going a bit far.

In fairness to BC, unlike some on here, he does have some very useful insights into a game and he does have a sense of humour.
I like him as a poster, even if his match threads drone on a bit (sorry BC)
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
Well, I don't always agree with BC but I think you're all being a bit unfair on him with these ad hominem attacks.

Putting BC's prejudices aside for one moment, which bit of those Statsbomb charts, that contrast Sissoko's performances with our other midfielders, do you (not just you Airfixx, everyone) disagree with? Or are those stats either wrong or misleading (acknowledging, as BC has done, that stats aren't the whole story)?

Personally, I find them interesting and informative - and that doesn't mean that I'm 'criticising, or failing to support, one of our own players' or 'refusing to admit that Sissoko has improved or works hard'. There has to be nuance to the discussion surely?
It's more the manner of the lecture, than the content.... Maybe i'm at fault for not separating the post from the poster's previous, but ultimately, zoom out a little and for me it just feels like the same old - 1 man's mission not to be proved wrong.

Sissoko's had a great season so far. The constant striving to prove otherwise is wearing to say the least.

p.s. Generally, I can't help but find some of these stat-graphs hilarious... More so than is true of my actual attitude towards the data.
 
I don't know anyone - even professional sports analysts - who think that stats are everything. Why does this hackneyed old mantra still get trotted out, every time stats prove someone's wrong.

As soon as stats don't tell you what you want to hear, it's "beware", "pinch of salt" "but but but...my eyes".

The stats Ive posted corroborate what my eyes have been telling me (and Ive been telling you).

And for the record, I obviously meant he's not a good footballer at this level. And no, I don't think he was entirely to blame for Newcastle getting relegated. Only maybe 8-10%.
Presumably Poch uses stats too?
If the stats bear out your views, why does a highly regarded, top level manager continue to play Sissoko?
Face it. You’re an armchair expert like the rest of us on here. And it’s clear that whatever Sissoko does, you’ll find a negative somehow, somewhere.
 

Bazali

I never forget.....
I think Blakey knows full well that Sissoko is now doing a great job and is now a vital member of our team but realises how much he’s slagged him off in the past and can’t admit that he was wrong

I’ve used ‘now ‘ twice deliberately because I recognise that he was a bit of a calamity when he first arrived
But there was always something about him that made me think that he’d come good and he has big time and thank fuck for that bearing in mind the injuries to Dier and Big Vic

I’m not saying I told you so but I fucking well did and continued to do so despite the flak I received

Make him captain I say and take measurements for his forthcoming statue!!
 
You guys think I have some kind of irrational dislike of Sissoko. I don't. I just know he's not a very good footballer, and his contribution is not good enough, and it certainly isn't as good as you guys like to portray.

You guys (and some others) say stuff like "he breaks up play" or "he was outstanding" but you can't quality what you are saying with anything substantive.

I just don't buy into your "narrative". I don't think he's actually doing things you claim, and he's certainly not doing anything to a high standard.

To back my opinion up, here is some performance data put together by football analysts Statsbomb:





Now here's one for Eriksen



Here's Winks:




I keep hearing about how great Sissoko is at breaking up play, but he really isn't.

Ive posted before raw tackle and intercept data that shows how poor Sissoko's bare output actually is. There are 11 players in our squad that average more tackles, and a further 2 (Eriksen and Son FFS) who average the same. There are 14 players in our squad that average more interceptions per game.

But that's very raw numbers and I accept they don't tell the whole story. If you look at the data above, that analyse every "event" in every game in more detail and check the defensive aspects - Pressure/Pressure regains/Pressure Adjusted Tackles and Padj Interceptions - you'll see just how fucking poor Sissoko's defensive contribution actually is.

He's pressuring/pressing much less than Eriksen (hardly a tenacious stalwart) and Winks (a player continually criticised for his defensive game).

So if he's not great defensively, there's going to be a massive offensive payoff right? ...............Wrong

As we all know he completes a couple of dribbles a game. The data confirm this. But they amount to very little productivity. He has one assist all season. KWP in one game managed 3. In less than half the minutes Lamela has 2. Even Aurier's got 2. And Sissoko's even played as an AM for some of that time.

His key pass average (0.7) is the 12th best in our squad. Only our Goalies, DM's and CB's have worse key pass ratios.

If you compare him to Eriksen, the player playing the left sided role in our CM3 (1+2) system, Eriksen rarely dribbles, but sees more of the ball, and also creates a shit load more 7 assists, 4 goals and ave 1.6 key passes.

But look at the Statsbomb data too which delves deeper (measuring quality as well as pure quantity - XG), the quality of his chance creation works out at just over a tenth (0.12) of a chance per game, and even the pre-pre-asists Sissoko's stats are piss poor, almost on par with Winks, who's been playing as the holding midfielder.

This is his remit. He's playing as an "8". He's bringing virtually nothing offensively.

So BangkokSpud BangkokSpud - breathtaking, stunning, astounding, astonishing - he definitely, unequivocally is not.

He's doing really basic, routine stuff, not defending particularly well, certainly not exceptionally, creating hardly anything, not even much in pre build up (only a fraction more than Winks our holder). But a couple of times a game he'll charge up field and everyone will go oooooh "Majestic".

Here's what "really good" looks like from a right side CM paying the same CM3 remit as Sissoko:




You can even use last year's Winks data (in red above) to compare with this year's Sissoko's (blue above) (especially useful for adasai adasai who seems confused by their tactical remits currently), where Winks was being used in a remit (more as an 8 type remit) more similar to the one Sissoko is this season, though Winks was often playing in CM2's (not the luxury of the Cm3 that Sissoko is this year). Last year's "8" remit Winks was outperforming this seasons "allegedly great" 8 remit Sissoko in terms of pressing actions defensively and vastly in terms of progressing the ball and XG Build quality/quantity of build up play.

And nobody, including me, was hailing Winks as wonder bread last season.
 
Last edited:

Register to remove

You can even use last year's Winks data (in red above) to compare with this year's Sissoko's (blue above) (especially useful for adasai adasai who seems confused by their tactical remits currently), where Winks was being used in a remit more similar to the one Sissoko is this season, though Winks was often playing in CM2's (not the luxury of the Cm3 that Sissoko is this year). Last year's "8" remit Winks was outperforming this seasons "allegedly great" 8 remit Sissoko in terms of pressing actions defensively and vastly in terms of progressing the ball and XG Build quality/quantity of build up play.

And nobody, including me, was hailing Winks as wonder bread last season.
Just a question
Do these stats take into account the quality of the league that each player plays in ?
 
Well, I don't always agree with BC but I think you're all being a bit unfair on him with these ad hominem attacks.

Putting BC's prejudices aside for one moment, which bit of those Statsbomb charts, that contrast Sissoko's performances with our other midfielders, do you (not just you Airfixx, everyone) disagree with? Or are those stats either wrong or misleading (acknowledging, as BC has done, that stats aren't the whole story)?
Explain why all our players werent picked for PL player of the month in November except Sissoko? Is everyone seeing football wrong and should refer to stats and charts to decide who played well? If the whole world can see who was our best player for the month, we can see it , why should we refer to some ridiculous charts and nonsense like xp, xg and god knows what.

Also the people who record stats also make mistakes, there was one match where they noted Sissoko had 0 dribbles. And there were at least 2 times I had seen him dribble past players.
 

rutlandspur

Supporter
Explain why all our players werent picked for PL player of the month in November except Sissoko? Is everyone seeing football wrong and should refer to stats and charts to decide who played well? If the whole world can see who was our best player for the month, we can see it , why should we refer to some ridiculous charts and nonsense like xp, xg and god knows what.

Also the people who record stats also make mistakes, there was one match where they noted Sissoko had 0 dribbles. And there were at least 2 times I had seen him dribble past players.
Well, for example, I (and presumably BC) don't think Sissoko was our best player for the month - so that's at least two off of 'the whole world'. That's the point isn't it - we'll all have different opinions. I reckon, even amongst our own fanbase, I'm personally biased against Sissoko & Aurier, but biased for Dier and Dele (who can do no wrong in my eyes). So we sit back and look at the stats to see if they shed light on those opinions - don't we? Rather than dismiss them?

Point taken on the compilation of the stats - they can only be useful if they are trustworthy - hence my original question to BC.
 
Explain why all our players werent picked for PL player of the month in November except Sissoko? Is everyone seeing football wrong and should refer to stats and charts to decide who played well? If the whole world can see who was our best player for the month, we can see it , why should we refer to some ridiculous charts and nonsense like xp, xg and god knows what.

Also the people who record stats also make mistakes, there was one match where they noted Sissoko had 0 dribbles. And there were at least 2 times I had seen him dribble past players.
But then there’s been games where you’ve proclaimed Sissoko’s playing well, working hard defensively- like Barcelona- and I’ve given you real examples of him not closing down and allowing players to run off him and get shots off etc.

So are your eyes and your judgement reliable?

Getting picked for player of the month means nothing. Micheal Dawson got voted Spurs player of the year in the same team Modric played in. It’s about opinions and popularity not actual football.

There’s been loads of noise about “Sissoko’s massive improvement” in the media. You really think he had a better month than Son? Of Kane? Or Eriksen or even Winks? Exactly, that’s how ridiculous opinions can be.
 
Well, for example, I (and presumably BC) don't think Sissoko was our best player for the month - so that's at least two off of 'the whole world'. That's the point isn't it - we'll all have different opinions. I reckon, even amongst our own fanbase, I'm personally biased against Sissoko & Aurier, but biased for Dier and Dele (who can do no wrong in my eyes). So we sit back and look at the stats to see if they shed light on those opinions - don't we? Rather than dismiss them?

Point taken on the compilation of the stats - they can only be useful if they are trustworthy - hence my original question to BC.
Just to add, the statsbomb data isn’t compiled on the fly, in teal time watching games, it’s done by reviewing every single game in a sequence of games (over a whole season in some cases), meticulously going through “actions” and events and also analysing how those events affected other actions and events etc.
 

KickAssAndGiggle

I hate the tabloid press SO MUCH!
I'm with Bazali here: Sissoko has come good this season. He's not the best on the ball but he has other qualities such as seemingly limitless energy and determination. He makes a lot happen on the pitch, which is a testament to his football brain as he lacks technically. He's more than justifying his first team berth, and I'd have him as one of our top 5-6 performers this year. Rarely is he MOTM, but rarely is he bad: I find him to be a Mr Consistent.

I really don't understand the negativity, at all. Often when I disagree with a POV I can see why it's held, but not on this one.
 
But then there’s been games where you’ve proclaimed Sissoko’s playing well, working hard defensively- like Barcelona- and I’ve given you real examples of him not closing down and allowing players to run off him and get shots off etc.

So are your eyes and your judgement reliable?

Getting picked for player of the month means nothing. Micheal Dawson got voted Spurs player of the year in the same team Modric played in. It’s about opinions and popularity not actual football.

There’s been loads of noise about “Sissoko’s massive improvement” in the media. You really think he had a better month than Son? Of Kane? Or Eriksen or even Winks? Exactly, that’s how ridiculous opinions can be.
So you think everyones eyes are not reliable except yours. Majority of spurs fans are wrong, people outside the club who pick nominations for player of the month are wrong, everyone is fucking wrong except you and your stats bomb.
 
So you think everyones eyes are not reliable except yours. Majority of spurs fans are wrong, people outside the club who pick nominations for player of the month are wrong, everyone is fucking wrong except you and your stats bomb.
That’s the thing though, I’m not just relying on my eyes.

You make out getting nominated for player of the month is some kind of scientific process that proves something. It’s a couple of ex-pros in a pub reflecting on who’s “done well this month” and putting that forward to the sponsors.

Also, it’s not actually a majority of people that are saying that Sissoko is brilliant, that’s still a relative minority. Most are just acknowledging he’s improved from being fucking turgid to being Ok and doing a decent job but still are rational enough to caveat it with “but we need someone better” and “hes still poor technically” etc.

I’ve acknowledged he’s done fine in some games, I’m just providing solid evidence to contradict the theory that he’s been great, because he hasn’t. And the evidence back that up. He doesn’t press great, he doesn’t create much, he doesn’t progress the ball much, he doesn’t pre pre key pass much.

He does those things very very occasionally, which isn’t enough for this level or the level we aspire to.
 

Rocket

Supporter
Just to add, the statsbomb data isn’t compiled on the fly, in teal time watching games, it’s done by reviewing every single game in a sequence of games (over a whole season in some cases), meticulously going through “actions” and events and also analysing how those events affected other actions and events etc.
And yet, anecdotally at least, they still get it wrong!
 
Backing the fuck out of Sissoko from here until May. I like his attitude, particularly in the face of all the shit he's had thrown his way. Easily could have asked out after a tough first season and hearing all summer how shit he was. But he stuck his hand up and said he was going to fight back. I love it.



Sort the song out before I'm over for Spam in the holidays.
I love New Moose. Son, Lamela, Sissoko, Rose....track record has been pretty damn good.

Sorry about Holtby and Soldado...they're really good blokes, though.

:avbshock:
 

Register to remove

Top Bottom