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Player Moussa Sissoko

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by The Fighting Cock, 31 Aug 2016.

  1. stevee

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    Moussa Dembele stats

    2014-15 gls 1 Assists 1
    2015-16 gls 3 Assists 1
    2016-17 gls 1 Assists 1
    2017-18 gls 0 Assists 0
    2018-19 gls 0 Assists 0

    Fucking useless cunt, glad he's going.
     
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  2. rutlandspur

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    Well, I don't always agree with BC but I think you're all being a bit unfair on him with these ad hominem attacks.

    Putting BC's prejudices aside for one moment, which bit of those Statsbomb charts, that contrast Sissoko's performances with our other midfielders, do you (not just you Airfixx, everyone) disagree with? Or are those stats either wrong or misleading (acknowledging, as BC has done, that stats aren't the whole story)?

    Personally, I find them interesting and informative - and that doesn't mean that I'm 'criticising, or failing to support, one of our own players' or 'refusing to admit that Sissoko has improved or works hard'. There has to be nuance to the discussion surely?
     
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  3. stevee

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    I get your point and I must admit that I have, in a light hearted way, criticised bus-conductorbus-conductor and I hope he knows that it is light hearted, from me anyway.
    However I remember one game on his match thread where Sissoko got 68% of the votes for MOTM and some else in the same thread posted another poll where Sissoko got 65% (IIRC) of the vote.
    BC was still adamant that Sissoko was fucking useless, or at least not good enough, in that game.

    Opinions are one thing but to call that many fans, and I'm paraphrasing here, deluded, biased, or just plain wrong is going a bit far.

    In fairness to BC, unlike some on here, he does have some very useful insights into a game and he does have a sense of humour.
    I like him as a poster, even if his match threads drone on a bit (sorry BC)
     
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  4. Airfixx

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    It's more the manner of the lecture, than the content.... Maybe i'm at fault for not separating the post from the poster's previous, but ultimately, zoom out a little and for me it just feels like the same old - 1 man's mission not to be proved wrong.

    Sissoko's had a great season so far. The constant striving to prove otherwise is wearing to say the least.

    p.s. Generally, I can't help but find some of these stat-graphs hilarious... More so than is true of my actual attitude towards the data.
     
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  5. Boltonspur

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    Presumably Poch uses stats too?
    If the stats bear out your views, why does a highly regarded, top level manager continue to play Sissoko?
    Face it. You’re an armchair expert like the rest of us on here. And it’s clear that whatever Sissoko does, you’ll find a negative somehow, somewhere.
     
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  6. Bazali

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    I think Blakey knows full well that Sissoko is now doing a great job and is now a vital member of our team but realises how much he’s slagged him off in the past and can’t admit that he was wrong

    I’ve used ‘now ‘ twice deliberately because I recognise that he was a bit of a calamity when he first arrived
    But there was always something about him that made me think that he’d come good and he has big time and thank fuck for that bearing in mind the injuries to Dier and Big Vic

    I’m not saying I told you so but I fucking well did and continued to do so despite the flak I received

    Make him captain I say and take measurements for his forthcoming statue!!
     
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  7. bus-conductor

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    #4467 bus-conductor, 11 Jan 2019
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2019



    You can even use last year's Winks data (in red above) to compare with this year's Sissoko's (blue above) (especially useful for adasaiadasai who seems confused by their tactical remits currently), where Winks was being used in a remit (more as an 8 type remit) more similar to the one Sissoko is this season, though Winks was often playing in CM2's (not the luxury of the Cm3 that Sissoko is this year). Last year's "8" remit Winks was outperforming this seasons "allegedly great" 8 remit Sissoko in terms of pressing actions defensively and vastly in terms of progressing the ball and XG Build quality/quantity of build up play.

    And nobody, including me, was hailing Winks as wonder bread last season.
     
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  8. stevee

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    Just a question
    Do these stats take into account the quality of the league that each player plays in ?
     
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  9. bus-conductor

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    They all (Sissoko/Eriksen/Winks) play in the same team, in the same league.

    But Statsbomb do adjust their model to account for style of team (ie defensive/possession/etc) hence the Padj data fields.
     
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  10. adasai

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    Explain why all our players werent picked for PL player of the month in November except Sissoko? Is everyone seeing football wrong and should refer to stats and charts to decide who played well? If the whole world can see who was our best player for the month, we can see it , why should we refer to some ridiculous charts and nonsense like xp, xg and god knows what.

    Also the people who record stats also make mistakes, there was one match where they noted Sissoko had 0 dribbles. And there were at least 2 times I had seen him dribble past players.
     
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  11. rutlandspur

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    Well, for example, I (and presumably BC) don't think Sissoko was our best player for the month - so that's at least two off of 'the whole world'. That's the point isn't it - we'll all have different opinions. I reckon, even amongst our own fanbase, I'm personally biased against Sissoko & Aurier, but biased for Dier and Dele (who can do no wrong in my eyes). So we sit back and look at the stats to see if they shed light on those opinions - don't we? Rather than dismiss them?

    Point taken on the compilation of the stats - they can only be useful if they are trustworthy - hence my original question to BC.
     
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  12. bus-conductor

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    But then there’s been games where you’ve proclaimed Sissoko’s playing well, working hard defensively- like Barcelona- and I’ve given you real examples of him not closing down and allowing players to run off him and get shots off etc.

    So are your eyes and your judgement reliable?

    Getting picked for player of the month means nothing. Micheal Dawson got voted Spurs player of the year in the same team Modric played in. It’s about opinions and popularity not actual football.

    There’s been loads of noise about “Sissoko’s massive improvement” in the media. You really think he had a better month than Son? Of Kane? Or Eriksen or even Winks? Exactly, that’s how ridiculous opinions can be.
     
  13. bus-conductor

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    Just to add, the statsbomb data isn’t compiled on the fly, in teal time watching games, it’s done by reviewing every single game in a sequence of games (over a whole season in some cases), meticulously going through “actions” and events and also analysing how those events affected other actions and events etc.
     
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  14. KickAssAndGiggle

    I hate the tabloid press SO MUCH!

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    I'm with Bazali here: Sissoko has come good this season. He's not the best on the ball but he has other qualities such as seemingly limitless energy and determination. He makes a lot happen on the pitch, which is a testament to his football brain as he lacks technically. He's more than justifying his first team berth, and I'd have him as one of our top 5-6 performers this year. Rarely is he MOTM, but rarely is he bad: I find him to be a Mr Consistent.

    I really don't understand the negativity, at all. Often when I disagree with a POV I can see why it's held, but not on this one.
     
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  15. adasai

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    So you think everyones eyes are not reliable except yours. Majority of spurs fans are wrong, people outside the club who pick nominations for player of the month are wrong, everyone is fucking wrong except you and your stats bomb.
     
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  16. bus-conductor

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    That’s the thing though, I’m not just relying on my eyes.

    You make out getting nominated for player of the month is some kind of scientific process that proves something. It’s a couple of ex-pros in a pub reflecting on who’s “done well this month” and putting that forward to the sponsors.

    Also, it’s not actually a majority of people that are saying that Sissoko is brilliant, that’s still a relative minority. Most are just acknowledging he’s improved from being fucking turgid to being Ok and doing a decent job but still are rational enough to caveat it with “but we need someone better” and “hes still poor technically” etc.

    I’ve acknowledged he’s done fine in some games, I’m just providing solid evidence to contradict the theory that he’s been great, because he hasn’t. And the evidence back that up. He doesn’t press great, he doesn’t create much, he doesn’t progress the ball much, he doesn’t pre pre key pass much.

    He does those things very very occasionally, which isn’t enough for this level or the level we aspire to.
     
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  17. Rocket

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    And yet, anecdotally at least, they still get it wrong!
     
  18. MemphisWill

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    I love New Moose. Son, Lamela, Sissoko, Rose....track record has been pretty damn good.

    Sorry about Holtby and Soldado...they're really good blokes, though.

    :avbshock:
     
  19. KickHerInTheSponge

    Character, like a photograph, develops in darkness

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    BC is gibbs131 x rain man
     
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  20. GGK

    GGK

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    Harsh, but,,,

    ( He seems like a decent fella and lacks the overbearing hubris of Gibbs who tbf wasn't always wrong.)
     
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