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Player Moussa Sissoko

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by The Fighting Cock, 31 Aug 2016.

  1. Stopspot

    Now I'm a big fat dynamo!

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    #4441 Stopspot, 11 Jan 2019
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2019
    I am sorry but no. Just no.

    numbers and stats are for scouts and analysts. Managers and coaches look at what a player actually does. How they move, how they play and so on and figure out what role they can perform in.

    I don't think Pochettino is particularly worried about Sissoko/Winks/Skipp's stats when he makes his selection but rather other tangiable attributes.

    bunburyistbunburyist nailed it really in his post. Stats will only get you so far and give you maybe 50% of the picture regarding a player
     
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  2. bus-conductor

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    But athleticism and energy are not unique qualities. They are in abundance, even on Hackney marshes. Great, he did a good thing in a game (even then you are slightly over stating - he ran about 15 yards and passed the ball to someone who then set up someone else - if that's what makes him a great footballer then Dier's Pirlo). We've got an 18yo who's had two starts who's actually got 2 assists, one of them a lovely through ball that pierced a defence, Another kid who's made 3 starts and has 5 assists and he's a RB.

    If he was constantly doing great stuff it could possibly mitigate all the stuff he's not doing very well. Bit like Lamela or Son in the early days. But he isn't. Even you can see that. You like him because he's a trier, I get that, but he's not good enough for "this level". Nowhere near.
     
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  3. bus-conductor

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    #4443 bus-conductor, 11 Jan 2019
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2019

    I don't know anyone - even professional sports analysts - who think that stats are everything. Why does this hackneyed old mantra still get trotted out, every time stats prove someone's wrong.

    As soon as stats don't tell you what you want to hear, it's "beware", "pinch of salt" "but but but...my eyes".

    The stats Ive posted corroborate what my eyes have been telling me (and Ive been telling you).

    And for the record, I obviously meant he's not a good footballer at this level. And no, I don't think he was entirely to blame for Newcastle getting relegated. Only maybe 8-10%.
     
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  4. GDN

    GDN

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    i haven't said sissoko is brilliant mate, just that stat based arguments are fundamentally flawed because they are too finite. Personally i don't really care about whole polarizing debate. i'm probably one of the few in the middle that just thinks he's doing "ok". Some good games, some not so good. definitely playing above expectations, but i want more for the club - that's not a criticism of him, i love his attitude and enthusiasm, and given our midfield crisis thank fuck he's stepped up. Next season i expect better players to be lining up there though.
     
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  5. Mrs Perryman

    I'm a Cockney Malteser

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    I don't know why people seem to enjoy being over critical of a player who has improved a thousand per cent and is playing his part in our successes this year. We can't operate with a team of Kanes, Eriksens, Hugos or any one player. Balance is the key of any successful team, and I believe Moussa does his bit very well. Maybe not every game, but not one single player does.
     
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  6. adasai

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    Stats wont even give you 50% of the picture if you are using it wrong. If anything it will show you opposite of whats actually going on.

    A passes to B in a shit position, B passes back to A, A passes to C in a shit position , C passes back to A. Repeat this many times in a match and you will see A collect tons of passes just like Winks does. His passing is absolutely woeful , but he remains superbusy doing nothing much of any use. Silly stat lovers think Winks did some great passing but it was mindless , to the nearest guy , hotpotato stuff where he had no intention of actually doing anything good with the ball.

    Sissoko on the other hand does not get involved in mindless passing too much , instead moves the ball to improve our attack. Of course he loses it a few times too but at least its because he has tried to do something positive with it. Thats why he is involved in lots and lots of our goals either with a pass or dribble or tackle.

    Theres a reason why he was picked from our whole team for Premier League November Player of the month. Usually people outside a club only notice our players when theyve scored a goal or have a high 'stat' in something which Sissoko doesnt have, so they must have seen how good he is playing right now. Hated him in his first season, not so great last year either, but since 3 months or so hes been nothing short of brilliant. There really is no need to whine about him still when hes been our best CM this season. Just shows ignorance and an inability to watch football.
     
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  7. Bazali

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    Looks like you’re on your own mate

    You’re not the only one on here with allegiance to Spurs and most of us think Sissoko is doing a great job for us

    Have a look at yourself
     
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  8. Bazali

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    That makes the two of us!!

    We were probably having a cunt off about something else at the time
     
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  9. stevee

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    Sissoko
    :kanehand:
     
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  10. Stopspot

    Now I'm a big fat dynamo!

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    Wise words.

    Football is a people sport. Managers and coaches care more about how these people behave and perform on the training ground and during games than if they meet some stat quota. Stats are a compliment if anything.

    If one focuses solely on the stats in sports you miss the forest for all the trees.
     
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  11. bus-conductor

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    Stop with this stupid nonsense about "stats tell you the opposite". That's bullshit designed to baffle fools. Stats need contextualising always. But here they are very straightforward. And they are very unambiguous.

    How about this for a concept. Sometimes, just maybe, stats also just show us exactly what is going on ?

    Those statsbomb data sets aren't just isolated random quantitive stuff. They qualify it too. Pressure Adjust takes into account the type of team a player plays on and that teams general approach, the X/G stats measure the quality of outcome, not just the quantity.

    And I provided direct comparison data for the two other players playing in our midfield. So you can actually see that Sissoko doesn't just tackle/intercept less than most in our team, he applies pressure poorly. He doesn't just not create anything, he doesn't even provide quality build up passes.



    This is very typical of someone that really doesn't understand football or the difference between what Winks is supposed to be doing and what Sissoko is, or someone with a real agenda. You've been criticising Winks from the first ball he's kicked.

    No-one thinks Winks is Pirlo. Most acknowledge we will probably need to upgrade him too at some point. But unlike Sissoko, he's actually fulfilling his remit to a reasonable standard. He is continually showing for the ball (not hiding from it and pointing like Sissoko often does) meaning we can play out from the back (something we were struggling to do earlier in the season) and he's moving it quickly and efficiently, helping our transition. It's the 8's jobs (Eriksen and Sissoko) to transition and "progress" us further, but guess what, Sissoko from an advanced position actually progresses us the same as Winks - see the data ("deep progression" into the final third - both average 6.3 per game - Winks also passes forwards more) go fucking figure eh?

    These stats aren't telling us the opposite of what's true, just the opposite of your "truth".



    I think you are mistaking him for Eriksen.
     
  12. AcrossThePond

    Tottenham till I die

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    Somebody should get this data to Poch stat. Suppose we could teach him a thing or two about football.
     
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  13. Airfixx

    Swollen Member

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    Get him on the Fifa with all the players too pronto.... We'll never win the league if Poch can't up his X-Box game.
     
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  14. Airfixx

    Swollen Member

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    ....I think you are mistaking yourself for someone with unique insight.

    :pochserious2:
     
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  15. Bazali

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    So what stats did you use to get the 8-10% blame factor in Sissoko sending Newcastle down?

    You’re not making sense
     
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  16. bus-conductor

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    I wasn't being serious Bazza.

    (ie; He's one of 11 players = 9.09%)
     
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  17. Wellsey

    Supporter

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    He's been great this season but does he ever practise shooting in training?
     
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  18. Luvf

    the Season of "It's like a new signing" - 8/18

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    Nando and Vinny don't why should he
     
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  19. Clynelish

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    Probably, but he's got close to zero talent for it.. There are more midfielders who play on a very decent level and couldn't hit a barn door.
     
  20. Bazali

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    Well worked out

    I’m looking forward to your match report against Yanited more than the actual game!
     
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