Money Ball

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Ok, stick with me on this one, as I know the title of the post implies I'm about to chat away about baseball and maths for a while.

For those that aren't familiar Money Ball is the latest Brad Pitt film that will no doubt win an Oscar or two. It is based on the story of Billy Beane, the General Manager of the Oakland Athletic baseball team. No, I haven't seen the film, read the book, or claim to have any knowledge of baseball, but I do know the basis premise of the film/story.

Beane set about building a competitive baseball team, based not on conventional thought about how the game should be played and the statistics that should be used, but on a new series of stats and analysis. This led to him fielding forgotten about players, and drafting players based on numbers, rather than the advice and thoughts of scouts.

The results worked.

There was a program on BBC 5 Live the other night, about Money Ball, and relating the story and working methods used to football. It was interesting that they used Scott Parker as a typical example of a Money Ball player. Someone who is getting on in years, was a cheap buy from an unfavourable, relegated team and was seemingly overlooked by 'bigger' (read more recently successful) clubs - just look at how he was the forgotten man at Chelsea.

They reeled of statistic after statistic about Scotty - basically for every relevant stat he was miles above the premier league average for an outfield player. Yet, he isn't a glamour player, he is the engine room. He lets all the other player get on with the business of silky passes and sticking the ball in the back of the net.

As much as many fans hate his media antics, Redknapp was the man who wanted Parker. As much as Levy was the man who gave us Van Der Vaart. Both players a revelation. I know I'm covering ground that has been discussed elsewhere, but perhaps the reason that Redknapp has his 'favourites' is because he knows exactly what they are capable of, seeing the potential that others don't and knowing how to push the metaphorical football buttons attached between their head, heart and feet to get them playing like another manager couldn't.

Adebayor could be seen as another example. Just look at the way he ran around the pitch against Aston Villa. He was up front, playing deep in midfield, clearing the ball and running down the wings. Is this really the same player who Woolwich fans despised for his work rate?

Friedel too. Written off as too old by the vast majority of fans. Most expecting him to be backup to Gomes. These same fans would probably swap him for few other goalkeepers right now.

Now, I don't think Harry spends hours looking over statistics, but he comes from the same kind of philosophy. The Wheeler Dealer tag, is actually something I don't mind. I'd rather we get the odd player on a loan than spend silly money on Carroll and Torres.

Is there a point to this post? No. Not really. i'm just sat in Starbucks trying to kill time.
 
are you trying to say Harry Redknapp is Brad Pitt? ;)

I've gotta say I think there's a lot of Spurs fans, including myself, out there that have eaten plenty of humble pie with regards to Scott Parker and maybe even Friedel. As far as Redknapp goes I've said since day one that I didn't believe he was the right man to take us to "the next level" but considering the form we've been in in the last 10 games I see no reason to believe that I was right there either. Pie humble ate.
 
We might see a bit more of this approach with the new stats we are getting, and maybe even us more than others,

The underarmour bug (not an illness but computer chip linked to sensors around the shirt) that will be with us next year (in training at least) should give us a lot more stats on fitness, work rate, how long players can play competitivly, nerves during penalty's etc

Also the chips there getting in the football boots has a similar, if less indepth analysis

it would be interesting to use in the game(the UAbug) as we might learn some bits and bobs about fitness and base subs on that, like that parker is technically dead after 70 minutes from exhaustion and that its just his final spasms of life somehow still make awesome tackles
 
Yes, didn't think about the Under Armour link!

It will be interesting to see how this is employed. As you say, the coaching staff will know exactly how fit a player is and be able to know exactly how many minutes he has before exhaustion etc

With good man management and a wealth of physical stats you can combine the best of both worlds.
 
spooky said:
Nice one Flav.

Nicer one Sibs. Brilliant post. Spend more time in Starbucks.

Seriously, not front page worthy.

Also I've just had to use the toilet here (number one). I worry if the staff use the same one.

Coffee kills germs, right?
 
Brilliant, thought-provoking stuff, Sibs. I’ve not read this yet but I gather that this article is along similar lines: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ds-newsxml

I think Scott Parker is a good example to an extent (ignoring the fact that he was rightly lauded last year) and, frankly, he clearly should have been picked by Woolwich or even Man United whilst we were dallying.

As a slight aside, I would argue that the Scott Parker type unglamorous player has never REALLY gone out of fashion since the Makelele days, and that most of the good clubs have one – Mikel (although not the best of these, does an important job), Song, Lucas, etc.

Re: Redknapp knowing what he’s capable of, you could equally look at some of his “miss” signings (I’d argue that there have been more misses than hits – although he’s slowly turning it round - but you’d almost expect that overall with most managers). However, you’re spot on that a number of fans doubted him on Parker, Adebayor and Friedel (I doubted 1/3 – Parker) and that he has so far been proven right. Gallas is another, although I actually felt that his performances last year were massively overrated, and that whilst he did well in the big games, he struggled in some of the lesser matches. I personally think Gallas is a good individual, but struggles to maintain a good relationship with his centre-back partner. Anyway, I digress.

Great stuff, Sibs!

Tiny thing: “basis premise” needs to be changed to “basic premise” on the front page.
 
I really want to see this piece. Any idea if there's a way to view it in the US? I haven't seen the movie, but I read the book and follow baseball pretty closely. Definitely would have to agree that Parker is your stereotypical 'money ball' player.
 
Talksport have got a thing no the website about 10 players who need to do better.

Downing was linked to the MoneBall thing saying the Liverpool regime was keen on statistical analysis - with his rate of assists being impressive.

So far this season he hasnt got a single one.
 
Having done a bit more research (read: "I read that article that Windy posted") Billy Beane is a big Spurs fan apparently and was good friends with Commoli during his time at Spurs. Apparently Commoli took Beane's ideas and has been looking at various stats when signing Liverpool players.
 
I remember seeing Comolli talk about who they were targeting for Liverpool and for some reason it stuck in my mind that they were specifically targeting players who had good injury records.
 
Can't believe that nobody has mentioned that Billy Beane is a Spurs fan.

edit: But also, the "moneyball" strategies aren't working anymore in baseball. After a year or two all the major baseball teams started implementing the same strategies into their scouting programs. With larger budgets to poach better targets, moneyball doesn't work for Oakland anymore, at last check they hadn't finished above .500 or made the playoffs since 2006.
 
VirginiaSpur said:
Can't believe that nobody has mentioned that Billy Beane is a Spurs fan.

edit: But also, the "moneyball" strategies aren't working anymore in baseball. After a year or two all the major baseball teams started implementing the same strategies into their scouting programs. With larger budgets to poach better targets, moneyball doesn't work for Oakland anymore, at last check they hadn't finished above .500 or made the playoffs since 2006.

I actually think Beane has a small stake in the Earthquakes. That might explain our partnership a bit there...

A yep, moneyball is basically dead in MLB. He needed to win when he was pioneering it. Too bad Derek Jeter made sure that didn't happen (The Flip).
 
Like anything, you find out a way of giving you an edge. When opponents work out what this is they'll either copy it or find a way of preventing you doing it... So...

Don't stop moving'











Can you feel the music
DJ's got us going around, 'round (Don't stop movin')
Don't stop movin'
Find your own way to it
Listen to the music
Taking you to places that you've never been before baby now

...
 
Back
Top Bottom