Mind Games and breaking free

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when I watching the game today, I said to my friend, wish I could turn off the commentary, and turn up the crowd. After all,it's not as if I have to be told what I'm seeing when I watch a game live!
Commentary should purely exist as an option for blind people. It’s an anachronism left over from the black and white days, where commentary played a more practical and informative role. These days it’s absolutely unnecessary.
 

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I’d pay extra for a ‘just the crowd’ option. Commentary is mostly just a load of waffle about Liverpool anyway.
EXACTLY! as Jerry Jerry said, I'd happily pay extra to have a crowd only function. Wish someone would invent it...
The BBC do it on their red button thing whenever they show live games (So usually the FA Cup) not sure If they still have it, but especially during the World Cup they'd have either '5 Live Radio commentary' or 'Crowd only' options...
It was a fucking GODSEND!
 
Good to see a discussion getting underway on this. I'm sure that some of my ideas seem silly. I'll address a couple of concerns I see.
The idea of creating a safe space: I don't propose a space in which we aren't honest with opinions. I simply wish to create a state where we are optimistic, not overly reactionary and able to view the team on a more objective level. The media and commentary will tend towards making you think your team is either worse or better than they are, both of which are destructive.
If anything, the true echo chamber is the media who simply repeat each others talking points.
 

rutlandspur

Supporter
Good to see a discussion getting underway on this. I'm sure that some of my ideas seem silly. I'll address a couple of concerns I see.
The idea of creating a safe space: I don't propose a space in which we aren't honest with opinions. I simply wish to create a state where we are optimistic, not overly reactionary and able to view the team on a more objective level. The media and commentary will tend towards making you think your team is either worse or better than they are, both of which are destructive.
If anything, the true echo chamber is the media who simply repeat each others talking points.
Yep, by and large I agree with you Princess. I find the match-day negativity of 'the melts' on here hard to understand - criticising our players as 'crap', whilst they're actually playing, just strikes me as the opposite of being a 'supporter'. I'm also pissed off when proponents of single agendas (from both sides - not spent enough, or Levy is God) use specific incidents or single results to justify/prove their point every 5 minutes, as if winning their arguments was the most important thing. It's like having that mouthy git sat behind who won't shut up. We don't have to listen I guess - I put someone on ignore yesterday, but that rather defeats the object of a forum.

Last, we've discussed it before but I'm always puzzled in general by why we're supposed to value the opinions of ex-players. They all talk platitudes, cliches and plain time-filling drivel - I guess because that's all they themselves have heard all their lives. If modern players can't make good managers, which is self-evident, then why should they make good pundits? I stopped listening to the pundits long ago - I don't do social media of any sort, I don't pay for Sky etc and when MotD is on I go make a cup of tea between matches - their analysis adds nothing to my life.

I go to all our home matches and I come on here, as someone else said, mainly to share the emotions of football (joy, frustration, pain) with other fans - without that I'd be a footballing hermit.

TLDR - sometimes I like the forum, sometimes I don't.
 
So I’m essence create a safe space with only opinions that you agree with. You will fit right in with some on here.
I don't think that is Princess Bleach Princess Bleach 's intention at all.

He / She is simply suggesting that we don't continue to allow pre-conceived agenda and narrative in the media influence our perception of our club or in fact the game as a whole anymore.
 
Lads,
I'm creating this thread because it needs to exist. Tottenham's success depends on it.
This is my attempt to destroy the greatest threat to this club: Memes
I will also destroy this club's greatest enemy: the media
You might not think you know what I mean by memes. You do. You just call it a hoodoo, or a curse, or just use the umbrella term 'spursy'.
We must, as a fanbase, acknowledge that this mindset is bad for the club, and that it is a problem. Acceptance is the first step to solving any problem.
I could go on about all the books i've read and the psychology behind these things, but that isn't necessary. Instead,here's some actionable advice that will make your life as a supporter less stressful, more enjoyable and allow you to see things in football much more clearly:

1. Watch matches with the commentary turned off. Commentary fucks with your head and perception in a bunch of ways I can't be bothered to get into now. Just do it, and notice how much better everything is.
2. Do not engage with sports media. Do not watch sky sports news, do not turn to the sports page of the newspaper. If you have to, do it when we win. When we don't win or get a good result, blackout your sports consumption until the next game.
3. Don't listen to what other fans think. They generally just say and think what the media tells them and are simply a more partizan arm of it. You should not judge your club by what rival fans say, as they will never give your club credit and simply keep moving the goalposts. Do not attempt to justify your club to standards made in bad faith.
4. Whenever you see some narrative being pushed, think about it. Really think about it. You will automatically think of all the times it is confirmed. This is how shitty narratives perpetuate. To combat this, try to think of all the times it isn't confirmed. When something that flies against that narrative happens, keep a mental note of it.
5. Embrace chaos. You must accept that football, more than most other sports, is dependent on luck. You could do almost everything right in a football match and still lose. It's not as bad as poker, but it's on that scale. Don't try to run form it. Embrace it. Ride it. If you can react to the wheel of fortune with stocism, you will stop yourself from spiraling into defeatism.

Use this thread for questions, as well as help dispelling and combating the media/memes, negative thinking and general unhelpful stuff holding the club back. I've seen so much unhelpful bs recently that this needs to be dealt with.
Bravo and welcome Princess Bleach Princess Bleach

There are fellow free thinkers here, and this is a notion i have championed in the past - that negative group mentality will ultimately have an impact on the team indirectly, not to say that there is no such thing as constructive criticism.

But be prepared to be burnt alive at the stake as a Witch for suggesting such a practice.
 

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when I was watching the game today, I said to my friend, wish I could turn off the commentary, and turn up the crowd. After all,it's not as if I have to be told what I'm seeing when I watch a game live!
I reckon that would be such a popular option. The only reason I like the volume turned up is for the atmosphere, not the commentary
 
The BBC do it on their red button thing whenever they show live games (So usually the FA Cup) not sure If they still have it, but especially during the World Cup they'd have either '5 Live Radio commentary' or 'Crowd only' options...
It was a fucking GODSEND!
in this day and age of technology we should absolutely be given the option to turn off the commentary. It would be a much better experience, closer to being at the game. I very much doubt that Sky in particular will give people this option so that they can ram down their agenda to everyone they can.
 
Commentary should purely exist as an option for blind people. It’s an anachronism left over from the black and white days, where commentary played a more practical and informative role. These days it’s absolutely unnecessary.
The Asian Games final on Youtube only had crowd noise no coms, started off a bit weird but was brilliant after a while.

I don't know how true this is but was told it used to be an option on SkySports (ages ago) but it was proving too popular and it meant they couldn't differentiate their product so got rid of it.
 
All about commentary on the early rounds of the League Cup / Europa qualifiers only available on dodgy Middle Eastern / Russian streams.

"What are they on about?"

"don't know, don't care."
 
I don't think that is Princess Bleach Princess Bleach 's intention at all.

He / She is simply suggesting that we don't continue to allow pre-conceived agenda and narrative in the media influence our perception of our club or in fact the game as a whole anymore.
Firstly I don’t believe there is any such agenda - it’s just the usual nonsense that a lot of supporters espouse( not just us) when they read or hear something that goes against their viewpoint. Secondarily I will take in all viewpoints associated with the club - good and bad and determine if there is any merit in those views. That’s what any sensible person does - what they don’t do is take a blinkered approach and create their own little echo chambers where they only hear views they agree with. I take it there is no agenda in the media when we have the likes of Gary Neville waxing lyrical about us?
 
I really don't mind the commentary and the pundits comments. You occasionally pick up a little nugget of info (mostly a stat or similar) also it does make you realise how much bollocks they speak. On saying that I don't let it bother me.
You do get a gem like this occassionaly. From @ 5min on listen to Souness slag off JohnTerry.

 
Firstly I don’t believe there is any such agenda - it’s just the usual nonsense that a lot of supporters espouse( not just us) when they read or hear something that goes against their viewpoint. Secondarily I will take in all viewpoints associated with the club - good and bad and determine if there is any merit in those views. That’s what any sensible person does - what they don’t do is take a blinkered approach and create their own little echo chambers where they only hear views they agree with. I take it there is no agenda in the media when we have the likes of Gary Neville waxing lyrical about us?
Have a little browse of Football 365's mediawatch pages:

Mediawatch: Shedding a light on shoddy reporting every lunchtime

Week in week out - this is why certain media outlets lack credibility, and why i try to avoid them.

There may well not be conspiracy theory at the heart of the rhetoric but there is certainly a lot of lazy journalism. Surely the point is we should strive for better and not let our view of the club be skewed (positively OR Negatively by incorrect or misinformed opinion).
 
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Have a little browse of Football 365's mediawatch pages:

Mediawatch: Is Liverpool defender Gomez the new Bobby Moore? - Football365

Week in week out - this is why certain media outlets lack credibility, and why i avoid them.

There may well not be conspiracy theory at the heart of the rhetoric but there is certainly a lot of lazy journalism. Surely the point is we should strive for better and not let our view of the club be skewed (positively OR Negatively by incorrect or misinformed opinion).
I don’t avoid anything because I don’t get bothered by them. We don’t need to safeguard peoples’ opinions - let everyone make their own choices rather than trying to dictate that. It’s actually quite a patronising mindset to decide what is and isn’t acceptable for consumption.
 
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I don’t avoid anything because I don’t get bothered by them. We don’t need to safeguard peoples’ opinions - let everyone make their own choices rather than trying to dictate that. It’s acitally quite a patronising mindset to decide what is and isn’t acceptable for consumption.
Yep. Let people say what they want. It really makes little difference at the end of the day. United and Liverpool have been the media darlings for decades. Chelsea generally don’t get wall to wall praise either, so it’s not like we’re the only ones.

I think it’s selective memory anyway. We’ve been praised plenty of times. I remember the Spurs v Newcastle game under Redknapp where the commentator spoke about us having no shortage of potential applicants to manage ‘this magnificent team’. We have plenty of fans in the media. It’s one of the biggest reasons so many other fans hate us. There are nice things said about us all the time. Not that I care about that either. Results say more than any commentary or review ever could. Whenever I speak to fans of other teams they generally know exactly how good we are.
 
Perhaps i'm an idealist to think that the world would be a better place if people based their opinion on facts rather than hyperbole and preconceived notions. That to me is manipulation.

Its okay for people to misinform because is gives the consumer the right to determine if it is a lie or not?

In the bigger picture yellow journalism / propaganda / fake news is a very powerful and dangerous tool.
 

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Yep. Let people say what they want. It really makes little difference at the end of the day. United and Liverpool have been the media darlings for decades. Chelsea generally don’t get wall to wall praise either, so it’s not like we’re the only ones.

I think it’s selective memory anyway. We’ve been praised plenty of times. I remember the Spurs v Newcastle game under Redknapp where the commentator spoke about us having no shortage of potential applicants to manage ‘this magnificent team’. We have plenty of fans in the media. It’s one of the biggest reasons so many other fans hate us. There are nice things said about us all the time. Not that I care about that either. Results say more than any commentary or review ever could. Whenever I speak to fans of other teams they generally know exactly how good we are.
I find the whole agenda thing utterly absurd - we have on the large been the media darlings since Poch took over ( we were for much of the Redknapp period as well) but for some odd reason any semblance of negativity about us is met with with extreme hostility by a small number of supporters. Sometimes the truth hurts - the whole criticism over our failure to secure silverware is a perfectly valid one for example and yet for some the response is to attack, discredit and try to close down this rather than actually discuss this.
 
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