Man Utd (A) - 11 DEC

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Last season was the freak season we could have won it with just 1 good signing.
Not only that, but Leicester's League record from February 1st...

15 games played
10 Wins
4 Draws
1 Loss

That's a total of 11 dropped points from the end of the January transfer window. We finished 11 points behind Leicester. That means we would have needed to win EVERY game just to have a shot at a goal difference win.

The reason they can't think of a player that would have pushed us to the title, is because that player doesn't exist. We could have signed Lionel fucking Messi and we still wouldn't have won.


Leicester won the League, and nothing we could have done, no player bought, would have changed that.

They just like having a pop at the club. They don't need evidence or fact. Just their own echo chamber of depression.

Bleeting is all they have. Because the facts don't back them up.
Joker.
 
Not at all. It's just very easy to complain about not strengthening without actually offering any suggestions. Nobody is saying that anyone on here has better resources than professional scouts, but we all tend to know how Spurs play these days under Poch & what players there are at the top level in Europe (let's be frank, there aren't many top level clubs to choose those players from). So it really shouldn't need to be a trawl of the underbelly of world football for a fan on a forum to come up with a name or two that we could buy in January who would satisfy the "no ambition" twinges. Unless of course it isn't that easy at all.
My argument was never its really easy being a scout & I could so easily find us a player to make us better. So you are making up stuff & arguing against it.

Mane in the summer is 1 I would have gone all out for early on. But he could have been crap for us.
so its a question no one can win at anyway.

Also, I still think the scouts have much better resources than us. I rarely watch football outside of england, let alone closely monitor an individual in most matches.
I think us on the forums are miles away from what scouts see. Although you probably watch a lot more football than me. I only really watch barca & madrid fairly regularly outside of the premiership.

I just disagree that you can only criticise if you can do better yourself. Suddenly we only apply it to scouts on the forum.
 
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Not at all. It's just very easy to complain about not strengthening without actually offering any suggestions. Nobody is saying that anyone on here has better resources than professional scouts, but we all tend to know how Spurs play these days under Poch & what players there are at the top level in Europe (let's be frank, there aren't many top level clubs to choose those players from). So it really shouldn't need to be a trawl of the underbelly of world football for a fan on a forum to come up with a name or two that we could buy in January who would satisfy the "no ambition" twinges. Unless of course it isn't that easy at all.
Off the top of my head...

Dembele (Celtic)
Roberts (Celtic)
Tielemans (Anderlecht)
Carrasco (Atletico)
Werner (Liepzig)

But they're no guarantees. There isn't the available quality out there but these people will say, with no shame, that we were 1 player away from the title last year.

Amazing.
 
My argument was never its really easy being a scout & I could so easily find us a player to make us better. So you are making up stuff & arguing against it.

Mane in the summer is 1 I would have gone all out for early on. But he could have been crap for us.
so its a question no one can win at anyway.

Also, I still think the scouts have much better resources than us. I rarely watch football outside of england, let alone closely monitor an individual in most matches.
I think us on the forums are miles away from what scouts see. Although you probably watch a lot more football than me. I only really watch barca & madrid fairly regularly outside of the premiership.

I just disagree that you can only criticise if you can do better yourself. Suddenly we only apply it to scouts on the forum.
What am I making up to argue against? All I've said is that it's easy to complain about Spurs having a lack of ambition when there isn't any evidence to suggest that in recent times. For all we know, the scouts could be working round the clock trying to unearth these gems but maybe real talent is not that easy to come by & you can bet that what talent there is will also be being scrutinised by scouts at other clubs. We got Dele through sheer good scouting & everything falling right into place for us. One of the brightest prospects in English (if not world) football.
He was a £5 million gamble that paid off superbly. What about Dier too? So there are two relatively recent examples of our scouts doing what could reasonably be described as "a fucking diamond job". But still there is disquiet about a lack of an X factor player. These well known elite players who would make a difference are already at huge clubs anyway. Spurs are presently in the business of creating superstars, sometimes from scratch. More recently, we seem better able to keep hold of them-which makes a nice change than worrying about which mega rich club is going to take our best players.

What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about.

If we are talking about players who WILL make the difference between challenging or not, it's a very limited pool. We know their names because everyone does & they will be difficult/expensive to bring in. So we are relying more on prospects being found.

Fwiw- I still think Janssen will come good as he returns from injury. We expected too much from him too soon & I feel a bit sorry for him being thrown in so quickly because of Kane's injury.
 
What am I making up to argue against? All I've said is that it's easy to complain about Spurs having a lack of ambition when there isn't any evidence to suggest that in recent times. For all we know, the scouts could be working round the clock trying to unearth these gems but maybe real talent is not that easy to come by & you can bet that what talent there is will also be being scrutinised by scouts at other clubs. We got Dele through sheer good scouting & everything falling right into place for us. One of the brightest prospects in English (if not world) football.
He was a £5 million gamble that paid off superbly. What about Dier too? So there are two relatively recent examples of our scouts doing what could reasonably be described as "a fucking diamond job". But still there is disquiet about a lack of an X factor player. These well known elite players who would make a difference are already at huge clubs anyway. Spurs are presently in the business of creating superstars, sometimes from scratch. More recently, we seem better able to keep hold of them-which makes a nice change than worrying about which mega rich club is going to take our best players.

What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about.

If we are talking about players who WILL make the difference between challenging or not, it's a very limited pool. We know their names because everyone does & they will be difficult/expensive to bring in. So we are relying more on prospects being found.

Fwiw- I still think Janssen will come good as he returns from injury. We expected too much from him too soon & I feel a bit sorry for him being thrown in so quickly because of Kane's injury.
Close the fucking forum!!! Someone's actually talking some sense
 
But equally people say teams like utd are shit & we will rip them apart.
Then we lose & those people don't follow the pattern of what they were saying before either.

Utd are shit, and many have said we were poor. On our day, we would have beaten them....we gifted them a goal, they created little, but we didnt turn up.
Its fine to say we are poor, when we are poor......but when we beat teams 5-0, and 3-0 etc, I find this sentiment creeping in that "it was only Swansea" etc....little credit given when its due, but critique in abundance when we lose.

The post I made regarding points is just that. 3pts for us is 3pts for anyone else.

How can top 4 be impossible for us when we are 3pts off it, yet Utd, 3pts behind us, are "catching us and closing in"..
 
What am I making up to argue against? All I've said is that it's easy to complain about Spurs having a lack of ambition when there isn't any evidence to suggest that in recent times. For all we know, the scouts could be working round the clock trying to unearth these gems but maybe real talent is not that easy to come by & you can bet that what talent there is will also be being scrutinised by scouts at other clubs. We got Dele through sheer good scouting & everything falling right into place for us. One of the brightest prospects in English (if not world) football.
He was a £5 million gamble that paid off superbly. What about Dier too? So there are two relatively recent examples of our scouts doing what could reasonably be described as "a fucking diamond job". But still there is disquiet about a lack of an X factor player. These well known elite players who would make a difference are already at huge clubs anyway. Spurs are presently in the business of creating superstars, sometimes from scratch. More recently, we seem better able to keep hold of them-which makes a nice change than worrying about which mega rich club is going to take our best players.

What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about.

If we are talking about players who WILL make the difference between challenging or not, it's a very limited pool. We know their names because everyone does & they will be difficult/expensive to bring in. So we are relying more on prospects being found.

Fwiw- I still think Janssen will come good as he returns from injury. We expected too much from him too soon & I feel a bit sorry for him being thrown in so quickly because of Kane's injury.
Aubemayang was one we cocked up I think. Dortmund agreed to sell but we couldn't get him to sign. Imagine him and Kane together, defenders would be shitting themselves.
 
Who should we have bought in January?

If they were to name a realistic player, and we bought that player for 25M, and he didnt hit the ground running, 6 months down the line it would be "Levy didnt spend" or "Levy bought shit"...

Its a no win situation for the club. You try and bolster the squad with one of Euro 2016s best midfielders, and because he took time to settle "we should have bought Mr X" or "We dont spend"
 
To be fair totti, a lot of people calling out the melts are the same same ones who said we would improve on last season.

And with the season less than halfway through, how can you say we havent?

We havent even fielded last years team once yet if Im correct.
Dembele out for the first month....Kane out for 7 weeks, Toby out for a month, Dier at CB in that time, Lamela out for 2 months.......

How can you possibly compare?
 
I would have gone all out for mane. I said before the summer transfer window too.
I Think he would do great for us.

Sissoko & george's fee & wages would have covered the cost.
But I don't think we were interested in him at all.

Its a hindsight argument tho......If we bought Mane, and he didnt perform, and Sissoko was tearing it up at Liverpool, you'd be saying the exact opposite

Here's a post I made nearly 2 years ago in a discussion about Mirelles
Another Kranjcar for me....decent player, but dont see him as an instant step up to be honest.
Southamptons Mane on the other hand


I thought long ago he's a quality player, way before he joined Liverpool and you started banging his drum to be fair.
But so what? Liverpool signed him. We dont have first dibs on every player and we wasnt interested in him then so be it.
We bought Njie, he got injured and is on loan....maybe he comes back and is better than ever.....Nkoudou can come good with time.....Im glad we didnt buy Mane now, because Winks is getting on the pitch. Didnt cost a damn penny, another homegrown gem.
 
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Its a hindsight argument tho......If we bought Mane, and he didnt perform, and Sissoko was tearing it up at Liverpool, you'd be saying the exact opposite

Here's a post I made nearly 2 years ago in a discussion about Mirelles
Another Kranjcar for me....decent player, but dont see him as an instant step up to be honest.
Southamptons Mane on the other hand


I thought long ago he's a quality player, way before he joined Liverpool and you started banging his drum to be fair.
But so what? Liverpool signed him. We dont have first dibs on every player and we wasnt interested in him then so be it.
We bought Njie, he got injured and is on loan....maybe he comes back and is better than ever.....Nkoudou can come good with time.....Im glad we didnt buy Mane now, because Winks is getting on the pitch. Didnt cost a damn penny, another homegrown gem.
Agree.

It's a subjective argument, but take a quick look at every PL club and their summer transfer business. There are only 2 players, Mane for Liverpool and Kante for Chelsea that has improved their teams since they signed.

Others for contention would be:
Bailly started well but got injured.
Zlatan - Score some tap-ins, but can you really say Rashford wouldn't have scored those also???
Chadli - Impressive start, certainly turn a dull defensive side into an attacking one, but has been out injured.

Others are starting to show like Sane & Mkhitaryan but thats taken until the last couple of games, just like Sissoko.
 
Agree.

It's a subjective argument, but take a quick look at every PL club and their summer transfer business. There are only 2 players, Mane for Liverpool and Kante for Chelsea that has improved their teams since they signed.

Others for contention would be:
Bailly started well but got injured.
Zlatan - Score some tap-ins, but can you really say Rashford wouldn't have scored those also???
Chadli - Impressive start, certainly turn a dull defensive side into an attacking one, but has been out injured.

Others are starting to show like Sane & Mkhitaryan but thats taken until the last couple of games, just like Sissoko.

Gundoghan has looked the business.

That Guye fella at Everton looks like good value.

Chadli.... Ooops!
 
You're a bad fan & a melt for pointing out potential problems in the future.
If you want to be a true fan bring a bucket & spade & make a sandcastle over your head.


This cunt calling ANYONE a bad fan and a melt!

:walker-scream:
 
Gundoghan has looked the business.

That Guye fella at Everton looks like good value.

Chadli.... Ooops!
Good shout on Guye, missed him. As I said it's subjective, but Gundoghan has had no more than very 2 good games (about as many as Sissoko!), he has only featured in 9 out of 16 league game, that alone is not an indication that he hasn't improved them or had a major impact.
 
What am I making up to argue against? All I've said is that it's easy to complain about Spurs having a lack of ambition when there isn't any evidence to suggest that in recent times. For all we know, the scouts could be working round the clock trying to unearth these gems but maybe real talent is not that easy to come by & you can bet that what talent there is will also be being scrutinised by scouts at other clubs. We got Dele through sheer good scouting & everything falling right into place for us. One of the brightest prospects in English (if not world) football.
He was a £5 million gamble that paid off superbly. What about Dier too? So there are two relatively recent examples of our scouts doing what could reasonably be described as "a fucking diamond job". But still there is disquiet about a lack of an X factor player. These well known elite players who would make a difference are already at huge clubs anyway. Spurs are presently in the business of creating superstars, sometimes from scratch. More recently, we seem better able to keep hold of them-which makes a nice change than worrying about which mega rich club is going to take our best players.

What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about.

If we are talking about players who WILL make the difference between challenging or not, it's a very limited pool. We know their names because everyone does & they will be difficult/expensive to bring in. So we are relying more on prospects being found.

Fwiw- I still think Janssen will come good as he returns from injury. We expected too much from him too soon & I feel a bit sorry for him being thrown in so quickly because of Kane's injury.
yeah some good points you have made as always bolton.
But you say "What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about."

I don't want to hurt anyone's ego, but id say 99% of what is posted on this forum is from people who barely know much about what they are talking about.
It is the same as us all being experts when we talk to people in the street, no matter what the subject.
or else you would be constantly saying " I am fair too unqualified to give an opinion of that subject".
It will be very limited conversation if we only chat about things we now a lot about.
or maybe we have people on here who know a lot about many subjects.
From owning a club, to being a professional footballer, to managing in la liga & the premiership.

Look at the off topic threads too. some on here are experts on politics, hip hop, ufc, cricket, boxing etc.

For example, I would say most none of us have a clue what it takes to manage a club like spurs.
yet most of us have sometimes complained & criticized the manager.
poch knows probably 99% more about football than any of us. yet we will complain about a decision he made.
despite us knowing very little about managing a club & making decisions like he has too.

It is the same through out the forum. so I don't know why if it's scouting we have to know what we are talking about.

we all give opinions on matters we know very little about.

If you could filter this forum/the internet to only good substance from people who know a lot about the subject, it would probably be 99% smaller!

someone was asking me about the cricket today. I only watch some england matches & even then usually just the highlights. so i am very unqualified to comment, but I still gave some opinion. I said anderson shouldn't bother playing in india & we should have rested him for the whole tour.
He isn't effective in those countries & we have to manage him because of his age.
But really, I am not qualified to give opinions like that.
I am just forming an opinion from what little I know about cricket.

ps. dier & alli were a great bit of scouting (as were walker & rose back in the day!).
& I am not too worried about janssen yet either. He needs a full season at least!
 
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Utd are shit, and many have said we were poor. On our day, we would have beaten them....we gifted them a goal, they created little, but we didnt turn up.
Its fine to say we are poor, when we are poor......but when we beat teams 5-0, and 3-0 etc, I find this sentiment creeping in that "it was only Swansea" etc....little credit given when its due, but critique in abundance when we lose.

The post I made regarding points is just that. 3pts for us is 3pts for anyone else.

How can top 4 be impossible for us when we are 3pts off it, yet Utd, 3pts behind us, are "catching us and closing in"..
There are exaggerations both ways. Saying "utd are shit" is doing just that, as is people saying top 4 is impossible!
 
Its a hindsight argument tho......If we bought Mane, and he didnt perform, and Sissoko was tearing it up at Liverpool, you'd be saying the exact opposite

Here's a post I made nearly 2 years ago in a discussion about Mirelles
Another Kranjcar for me....decent player, but dont see him as an instant step up to be honest.
Southamptons Mane on the other hand


I thought long ago he's a quality player, way before he joined Liverpool and you started banging his drum to be fair.
But so what? Liverpool signed him. We dont have first dibs on every player and we wasnt interested in him then so be it.
We bought Njie, he got injured and is on loan....maybe he comes back and is better than ever.....Nkoudou can come good with time.....Im glad we didnt buy Mane now, because Winks is getting on the pitch. Didnt cost a damn penny, another homegrown gem.
nah, I don't think having mane would have stopped winks being played.
& if mane flopped like you suggested, then I am sure poch would have dropped him anyway.
 
And with the season less than halfway through, how can you say we havent?

We havent even fielded last years team once yet if Im correct.
Dembele out for the first month....Kane out for 7 weeks, Toby out for a month, Dier at CB in that time, Lamela out for 2 months.......

How can you possibly compare?
Each to their own. I don't think we are any better than last season. Others think we are better.
As for the injuries I think this season will be the norm. We got so lucky with injuries last season for a change.
 
yeah some good points you have made as always bolton.
But you say "What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about."

I don't want to hurt anyone's ego, but id say 99% of what is posted on this forum is from people who barely know much about what they are talking about.
It is the same as us all being experts when we talk to people in the street, no matter what the subject.
or else you would be constantly saying " I am fair too unqualified to give an opinion of that subject".
It will be very limited conversation if we only chat about things we now a lot about.
or maybe we have people on here who know a lot about many subjects.
From owning a club, to being a professional footballer, to managing in la liga & the premiership.

Look at the off topic threads too. some on here are experts on politics, hip hop, ufc, cricket, boxing etc.

For example, I would say most none of us have a clue what it takes to manage a club like spurs.
yet most of us have sometimes complained & criticized the manager.
poch knows probably 99% more about football than any of us. yet we will complain about a decision he made.
despite us knowing very little about managing a club & making decisions like he has too.

It is the same through out the forum. so I don't know why if it's scouting we have to know what we are talking about.

we all give opinions on matters we know very little about.

If you could filter this forum/the internet to only good substance from people who know a lot about the subject, it would probably be 99% smaller!

someone was asking me about the cricket today. I only watch some england matches & even then usually just the highlights. so i am very unqualified to comment, but I still gave some opinion. I said anderson shouldn't bother playing in india & we should have rested him for the whole tour.
He isn't effective in those countries & we have to manage him because of his age.
But really, I am not qualified to give opinions like that.
I am just forming an opinion from what little I know about cricket.

ps. dier & alli were a great bit of scouting (as were walker & rose back in the day!).
& I am not too worried about janssen yet either. He needs a full season at least!
FYI, Jimmy Anderson averages 30 in the subcontinent, which, for a seamer is incredibly effective and one of the best in modern history.
 
yeah some good points you have made as always bolton.
But you say "What I am saying is that if you want to complain, then it all seems a bit pointless if you don't know or understand the logistics of what it is you're complaining about."

I don't want to hurt anyone's ego, but id say 99% of what is posted on this forum is from people who barely know much about what they are talking about.
It is the same as us all being experts when we talk to people in the street, no matter what the subject.
or else you would be constantly saying " I am fair too unqualified to give an opinion of that subject".
It will be very limited conversation if we only chat about things we now a lot about.
or maybe we have people on here who know a lot about many subjects.
From owning a club, to being a professional footballer, to managing in la liga & the premiership.

Look at the off topic threads too. some on here are experts on politics, hip hop, ufc, cricket, boxing etc.

For example, I would say most none of us have a clue what it takes to manage a club like spurs.
yet most of us have sometimes complained & criticized the manager.
poch knows probably 99% more about football than any of us. yet we will complain about a decision he made.
despite us knowing very little about managing a club & making decisions like he has too.

It is the same through out the forum. so I don't know why if it's scouting we have to know what we are talking about.

we all give opinions on matters we know very little about.

If you could filter this forum/the internet to only good substance from people who know a lot about the subject, it would probably be 99% smaller!

someone was asking me about the cricket today. I only watch some england matches & even then usually just the highlights. so i am very unqualified to comment, but I still gave some opinion. I said anderson shouldn't bother playing in india & we should have rested him for the whole tour.
He isn't effective in those countries & we have to manage him because of his age.
But really, I am not qualified to give opinions like that.
I am just forming an opinion from what little I know about cricket.

ps. dier & alli were a great bit of scouting (as were walker & rose back in the day!).
& I am not too worried about janssen yet either. He needs a full season at least!
This is where the circular argument exists.
Person A says "we are falling behind & need to get players in."
Person B asks "who would you get in"?
Person A replies "it's not my job, we have scouts for that"
The club really can't win. Our scouts have brought in some incredible talent over the past couple of years. We have also managed to bring through something of a "golden generation" via the academy. Nobody is claiming that all our signings have been amazing- but that's the same for any club out there. Some lads come in & rip it up, others take time & some just don't work out at all.

The one thing about Poch is that he doesn't mess about & if a player isn't working out, he's shown a ruthless streak in getting them out the door.

It's good to dream & discuss what player(s) might enhance us but I do find a lot of the criticism these days a little bit unfair when we look at where we are from where we were not very long ago. The one thing we need now is silverware. The team deserves glory & I don't think finishing 4th offers that. Yes, its success of sorts, but nothing like a trophy in the cabinet. Really would like us to take the cups we are in seriously. The team we have will win things if sufficient weight is re attached to the importance of silverware. My one criticism of the manager is that I think he perhaps underestimates the importance of winning a cup in favour of a higher league finish. The money may be there for CL qualification, but the fans would rather have a cup final win than 4th place any day.
 
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