Man Utd (A) - 11 DEC

[imitationleather]

Several issues firstly the style is slightly different. Poch is at heart more defensive than Klopp, Poch wants to press and play with intensity to stop the opposition playing as much as to score, Klopp wants to play hard and high to simply out score the opposition. Personally I think Klopps way in some respects is more Spurs in the traditional sense of scoring more than the opposition and being reckless to a degree. That being said having a top notch defensive record for a Spurs team is amazing.

If anything I think Poch has pushed some of our players as far as they can go. He has improved us massively as a team but we need more quality mainly in attacking areas if we are too move to the next level, that therefore is not a change in manager but the purchase of a few top quality players.

People forget that while Spain may have the best individuals (Messi, Ronaldo, Modric, Iniesta etc) the Prem has the best managers (Conte, Klopp, Guardiola, Wenger, Mourinho, Koeman and of course Poch) so its got to a strange situation where if any of these guys don't win things they are deemed failures when in reality it's simply that there is so much competition and it comes down more to the quality and depths of the squads which lets be honest we need to improve on.

Yes Poch not having won anything was also a minus for him, but it's pretty obvious if he'd stayed in europe a few more seasons he would have picked up some trophies as the competition is so much less fierce and then he would have been well beyond a team like Southampton. And probably us as well, to be fair.

I agree we need better players and while I admire his commitment to pushing through youth and essentially keeping the England squad afloat in the process we are going to find it hard to break out of 5th or 6th until we can spend big. The current situation is that we can splash out £30million on players but it's basically just exchanging like-for-like in our team and doesn't really improve us any great deal. To get the next level we have to spend even more than that. Which isn't going to be happening for a few years at least.

 

[Totti]

And a clear sign we cant beat whatever is in front of us but everyone else did.

Just shows on that day, a defensive error cost us. Just shows to me that the league is alot harder this year. The good teams have stopped being shit.

 

[sammyspurs]

Just shows on that day, a defensive error cost us. Just shows to me that the league is alot harder this year. The good teams have stopped being shit.

Plus not everyone else has beaten Leicester, namely City and Woolwich

 

[scott]

3pts behind City.....(4 behind Pool) but seemingly impossible for us to finish top 4.

Yet Utd, 3pts behind us are seemingly odds on for a title challenge now.

And Watford, 3 pts behind Utd couldnt possibly finish above them.

Are Utds 3pts worth more than everyone elses? Would'nt surpirse me actually.

But equally people say teams like utd are shit & we will rip them apart.
Then we lose & those people don't follow the pattern of what they were saying before either.

 

[scott]

"Deceptive"... Not sure how, but regardless, regrettably deceptive to some, yes... Didn't require a genius to see the landscape for what it was though. MANY of the fans did whilst others buried their head in the sand insisting our young team (and manager) will enjoy a fast, linear collective improvement as players year after year... NO added complications.

No form dips, no sluggish start cos of the Euros and the exertion of last season, no mental scars from our meltdown, new signings won't need to bed in (certainly not that desperately needed 2nd striker... HK injury = Oooops!), no need to improve the first XI cos they will naturally improve together, our bench is good enough to handle EPL, while last years stars stroll into the last 16 of the CL, the TV money boom won't matter as we'll be able to cherry pick all summer cos we're a CL-team now... (<insert own 'favourite' chestnut here>)... Or so many insisted whilst mocking those that suggested otherwise.

All of which must have been music to Levy's ears.

Complacency... Sadly, that's what allowed said "deception" to happen....

Another chance to consolidate a 'spike' in our on-pitch evolution wasted.... (See 11/12 Saha/Nelson horror show.)

You're a bad fan & a melt for pointing out potential problems in the future.
If you want to be a true fan bring a bucket & spade & make a sandcastle over your head.

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

In my opinion we failed by not aiming high enough. We did absolutely nothing in the January window when it was obvious to all we were becoming involved in a title race and reliant on the goals of one player. If the club had taken our motto at face value, just for once, I doubt we would have gone on to somehow to finish 3rd in 2 horse race.

Who should we have bought in January?

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

You're a bad fan & a melt for pointing out potential problems in the fans.
If you want to be a true fan bring a bucket & spade & make a sandcastle over your head.

Your usual cutting intellect. You window licker.

 

[Boltonspur]

Who should we have bought in January?

This is the perennial problem with the argument. Nobody can actually say if there was anyone available, suitable &/or willing to come to us in these windows. We are all anxious to bring in that X factor player mid season/close season who transforms the team into world beaters overnight. The general fan answer is "it's not my job to recommend players to Poch, Spurs have scouts for that"...and then the circular argument begins again. We'd all love a shock move for a Messi or a Bale- but I don't see happening. The top players are all with teams still in the CL, or settled with top teams. Bringing in a foreign talent mid season is fraught anyway- no guarantee of the settling in straight away. So that leaves you with proven PL talent.

1- expensive- very expensive.
2- almost all the top players are happy where they are
3- still, nobody can name players who might be available (the PL is a relatively small pool of players) & who would turn us from the nearly men into run away winners in all competitions.

Don't be surprised if we do nothing in the window. Equally, don't be surprised if we bring in a prospect from the continent, or have another go for Berahino now his price will be next to fuck all.

 

[scott]

We literally just smashed Swansea and CSKA Moscow.

Last season is quite literally turning into a cancer. Expectations are far too high for some fans, especially as they don't understand that it was a one off.

To be fair totti, a lot of people calling out the melts are the same same ones who said we would improve on last season.

 

[scott]

I was looking at a general football forum and they were comparing Klopp to Poch and were saying that while Klopp is an amazing manager with a track record of success who can take Liverpool to the top, Poch appears to be reaching the limit of his abilities with us. Just such a stupid opinion. Poch has only ever managed clubs with limited budgets, has far less experience as a manager and isn't in charge of a team that most of the country seem to be in thrall of and think it's a massive injustice that they aren't constantly challenging for the title. I think there's also an element of people massively falling for Klopp's Mr. Nice Guy act whereas Poch just seems a lot colder and angrier as a person (although to me I think Poch is just more honest and doesn't dress his behaviour up in so much shite, while Klopp's presentation in every way is a complete act).

klopp has achieved more & plays fair more entertaining football. You can see why the media love him.
Lots of goals at both ends of the pitch.

 

[scott]

This is the perennial problem with the argument. Nobody can actually say if there was anyone available, suitable &/or willing to come to us in these windows.

I would say there was if we are willing to pay 30m for sissoko. Plenty of clubs would sell good players if offered that amount.

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

This is the perennial problem with the argument. Nobody can actually say if there was anyone available, suitable &/or willing to come to us in these windows. We are all anxious to bring in that X factor player mid season/close season who transforms the team into world beaters overnight. The general fan answer is "it's not my job to recommend players to Poch, Spurs have scouts for that"...and then the circular argument begins again. We'd all love a shock move for a Messi or a Bale- but I don't see happening. The top players are all with teams still in the CL, or settled with top teams. Bringing in a foreign talent mid season is fraught anyway- no guarantee of the settling in straight away. So that leaves you with proven PL talent.

1- expensive- very expensive.
2- almost all the top players are happy where they are
3- still, nobody can name players who might be available (the PL is a relatively small pool of players) & who would turn us from the nearly men into run away winners in all competitions.

Don't be surprised if we do nothing in the window. Equally, don't be surprised if we bring in a prospect from the continent, or have another go for Berahino now his price will be next to fuck all.

Not only that, but Leicester's League record from February 1st...

15 games played
10 Wins
4 Draws
1 Loss

That's a total of 11 dropped points from the end of the January transfer window. We finished 11 points behind Leicester. That means we would have needed to win EVERY game just to have a shot at a goal difference win.

The reason they can't think of a player that would have pushed us to the title, is because that player doesn't exist. We could have signed Lionel fucking Messi and we still wouldn't have won.

These are the facts the melters don't look into. They just pipe off their ill-informed, ill-researched opinions like ''If the club had taken our motto at face value, just for once, I doubt we would have gone on to somehow to finish 3rd'' and think that they are somehow the people with their finger on the pulse of what this club should have done to win the League last year. Dropping a quote from Bill Nick as if that would have somehow got us the title. It wouldn't have, nothing would have.

Leicester won the League, and nothing we could have done, no player bought, would have changed that.

They just like having a pop at the club. They don't need evidence or fact. Just their own echo chamber of depression.

Bleeting is all they have. Because the facts don't back them up.

 

[Boltonspur]

I would say there was if we are willing to pay 30m for sissoko. Plenty of clubs would sell good players if offered that amount.

But who would you get in? That's the question nobody seems able to answer.

 

[scott]

But who would you get in? That's the question nobody seems able to answer.

I would have gone all out for mane. I said before the summer transfer window too.
I Think he would do great for us.

Sissoko & george's fee & wages would have covered the cost.
But I don't think we were interested in him at all.

 

[Boltonspur]

I would have gone all out for mane. I said before the summer transfer window too.
I Think he would do great for us.

Sissoko & george's fee & wages would have covered the cost.
But I don't think we were interested in him at all.

Fair enough if you called that- he's looking good for the dippers. However, he's gone & wont move to us now. So, who would you go for in January who is suitable & likely to be obtainable?

 

[scott]

But who would you get in? That's the question nobody seems able to answer.

would you not expect poch/our scouts to do better than 30m for sissoko on the final hour of the transfer window?
if you don't feel we can get anyone who is better than that for 30m then that's fair enough.
I would strongly disagree though.

 

[Boltonspur]

would you not expect poch/our scouts to do better than 30m for sissoko on the final hour of the transfer window?
if you don't feel we can get anyone who is better than that for 30m then that's fair enough.
I would strongly disagree though.

That isn't an answer to the question, but I will answer it anyway. I think that Sissoko looked excellent- a top player- in the Euros but I wouldn't have touched him with a barge pole bearing in mind how happy the barcode fans were to see the arse end of him. If you look through the Sissoko thread, & the summer transfer thread, I've maintained all along that I think he's a bad fit & a possible bad apple to boot. However, he's looked decent in the last couple of games & gave us a different look/dimension-admittedly v Hull. So the jury is still out here on Sissoko.

However, who would you bring in, to push us into title contention, in January?

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

Finding it real hard to answer that question. lol

 

[scott]

That isn't an answer to the question, but I will answer it anyway. I think that Sissoko looked excellent- a top player- in the Euros but I wouldn't have touched him with a barge pole bearing in mind how happy the barcode fans were to see the arse end of him. If you look through the Sissoko thread, & the summer transfer thread, I've maintained all along that I think he's a bad fit & a possible bad apple to boot. However, he's looked decent in the last couple of games & gave us a different look/dimension-admittedly v Hull. So the jury is still out here on Sissoko.

However, who would you bring in, to push us into title contention, in January?

I don't think we are a player off title winners sadly. I think we would need at least 3.
Last season was the freak season we could have won it with just 1 good signing.

I do find it strange people are expected to do as well as a scout with all their resources.
We may as well close down the player threads as unless you are a better player than you can't possibly criticise.
if we have a crap 60m spree, it don't matter because we aren't top scouts?!!
You have to scout better than our scouts & be a better player than our players... tough crowd you lot!

& if you do have an answer... nope its too late.
The question was how could we have improved in the summer. You said a decent answer but now you have to come up with 1 in the jan window even though if you were a scout you would have chosen to get players in the summer before & not the following january.

Anyway, I think poch/scouts could have done a lot better with 60m. Even if I am not a scout.
Maybe we should start separate threads where you can only criticise if you can do better than the person your criticising.

 

[Boltonspur]

I don't think we are a player off title winners sadly. I think we would need at least 3.
Last season was the freak season we could have won it with just 1 good signing.

I do find it strange people are expected to do as well as a scout with all their resources.
We may as well close down the player threads as unless you are a better player than you can't possibly criticise.
if we have a crap 60m spree, it don't matter because we aren't top scouts?!!
You have to scout better than our scouts & be a better player than our players... tough crowd you lot!

Not at all. It's just very easy to complain about not strengthening without actually offering any suggestions. Nobody is saying that anyone on here has better resources than professional scouts, but we all tend to know how Spurs play these days under Poch & what players there are at the top level in Europe (let's be frank, there aren't many top level clubs to choose those players from). So it really shouldn't need to be a trawl of the underbelly of world football for a fan on a forum to come up with a name or two that we could buy in January who would satisfy the "no ambition" twinges. Unless of course it isn't that easy at all.