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Leicester (h) 18/19 ratings

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by bus-conductor, 11 Feb 2019.

  1. Bazali

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    So this is you keeping it brief is it??
    Lmfao

    I agree with Mick Cooper in that you really don’t understand football
    You try and disguise this with verbal diarrhoea

    I mentioned the other week that you clearly didn’t understand the offside laws by your comments after the Leicester Wolves game
    But it’s your general view that is totally laughable and not just your clear anti Sissoko biase

    But in the spirit of the thread here are my ratings for what they’re worth

    Lloris immense and Motm
    9

    Trippier another poor game and they clearly targeted him and for once I agreed with Shearer
    3

    Sanchez good game and used his pace well and will improve
    7

    Vertonghen another good game and his tackle was never a penalty
    7.5

    Rose good game and continuing to improve
    7

    Sissoko Skipp Eriksen
    You can’t lump those together which is ridiculous and makes you look stupid which I don’t think you are
    Either do this properly or not at all

    So Sissoko another excellent game tackling covering well and rarely making a bad pass
    Excellent through ball for Sonny at the end and not a hit and hope as you’re trying to imply
    Some excellent runs forward especially when we were under pressure which I’m sure our defence was grateful for
    8.5

    Eriksen great player and took his goal with an excellent strike
    Will improve further with a new contract so give him one
    8

    Skipp a good lad with a bright future but at times he looked out of his depth yesterday although he still wanted the ball which clearly shows a good attitude
    Will improve
    4

    Winks another good game and coming into his own
    Love him and can be one of our ‘greats’
    Reminds me of a young Stevie Perryman and I can’t praise him any higher than that
    Doesn’t always get it right but his belief and effort never waver
    8.5

    Son has had better games but took his goal well and was lively throughout
    He was fouled in the box by that cart horse Maguire so it was a definite penalty and I commented at the time that if it was Salad it would have been given as he’s had softer ones given
    For JJ to say on MOTD that it was a dive was disgraceful and I really rated him until he said that but it seems he’s now toeing the Sky BBC anti Spurs line
    Look at yourself mate!
    8

    Llorente looks pedestrian and this wasn’t his sort of game although he did show some nice touches and held up the ball well on occasions but didn’t do enough for me
    5

    Poch
    Got us over the line again without playing particularly well
    Happening too often to be coincidence and so glad we have him

    Overall we deserved our win
     
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  2. GDN

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    some very generous ratings on here. I thought it was just about our worst performance of the season.
    Second half they were literally creating chance after chance; not through any incredible attacking play, but just because there were holes everywhere.
     
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  3. Notabadsquad

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    Sissoko was MoTM for me by a long stretch in terms of outfield players. Winks and then Rose behind him.

    Then Sanchez , Eriksen, Vertoghen and Son for differing reasons behind that trio.

    Skipp is too inexperienced, Trippier better but not as good as he needs to be and Llorente just added physical presence but lacks belief in his ability.

    Lloris was very good, Tielemans near miss aside.

    Leicester are good in the midfield and elements of their attacking play was excellent. Remember they deservedly beat City.

    Vardy all day long for us as a number 2 to Kane would make us very strong in that department in my opiniion.
     
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  4. Guido

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    If you saw a stat
    I hold NO narrative around Tripps, I've praised everyone of his good games (all be it a mere handful) and I've absolutely slatted him for his shitness. I passed zero comments or judgement on his performance yesterday, I fail to see the point in doing it as it's already been said, gets really, really boring.

    My post was picking-up directly on one of the most ridiculous statements of him by you and that was him "NOT BEING TARGETED". Absolute factually incorrect, uttter, utter bollocks in fact.

    For the stat, go watch MOTD2, an infographic posted for the watching millions.
     
  5. Guido

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    It is a deliberate tactic, always has been no matter who the FB/WB is. If you want to attack us there are two main routes, a) Space behind FB's or between CB & FB b) ball over the top of our high-line. By & large we have these areas locked down, we expect these balls and deal with the vast majority of attacks, even if they result with a few last-ditch tackles or 1v1 situations and Lloris sweeping up.

    With Tripps specifically if he's high up the pitch (especially in a 3 at the back) he still will not build our attacks with possession football, he will lump the ball into the box more often than not, which results in possession conceded and a big hole behind him for the oppo to attack constantly. Whilst as a team we've accepted this risk, it is almost to a point of kamikaze with Tripps because he concedes possession so much, therefore the odds of oppo making it count is far higher. When in a back 4 the same thing applies, still lumps in cross after fucking cross that oppo deal with. This is just the calculated stuff and doesn't factor in his inability to pass the ball out from the back and just how easily he loses the ball when put under pressure and his general ability to defend.
     
  6. bus-conductor

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    #26 bus-conductor, 11 Feb 2019
    Last edited: 11 Feb 2019
    So far so good. You seem to be acknowledging this is a tactical issue.

    It's this utter fictitious garbage I have an issue with. He is only marginally just behind Eriksen as our best key passer - both of them nearly double the next nearest players - that's got fuck all to do with crosses, that's passing to people that results in chances for them.

    In terms of assists, over the last three years, he's been by far our most productive player after Eriksen:

    Minutes per assist:

    Eriksen 237
    Trippier 324
    Son 337
    Alli 401
    Lamela 441
    Kane 577
    Davies 591
    Rose 684
    Sissoko 771
    Moura 1656

    Outside of our centre backs, nobody sees that ball or makes more passes in our team per game than Trippier, making almost double Rose does, but still completing fractionally more of them. This is also a reason why our right side is slightly more vulnerable at times, because Trippier is more involved in our build up play.

    But here's the thing, I've shown you that over the course of last season we conceded less chances down our right than we did our left. So either Trippier's a world class defender (even I don't think that), because despite being "targeted" his position conceded less chances, or your theory is a bit out of whack?

    Pochettino wants him to cross the ball sometimes, if he didn't want him too, he wouldn't be, Pochettino would drop him for one of our other two right backs, Rose crosses the ball too, just that Trippier's crosses are generally better than Rose's. And Trippier, factually passes the ball more than Rose, and creates more chances than Rose.

    All I’ve ever said is you have to take a balanced view and factor in the way we play, the way we use FB’s, the fact that we’ve had shit right sided cm’s for two years, and generally a weak midfield for the last two years, and the productive pay offer get with Trippier against his weaknesses.
     
  7. Mick Cooper

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    His point was that his over embellishment, was what stopped him getting the decision, I really doubt that if that had happened anywhere else on the pitch he would have made such a meal of it, and I also believe that if it had happened anywhere else on the pitch, it would have been a free kick - ergo, a penalty in that case.

    By over egging the pudding "to make sure" he turned Oliver into not giving it.
    This is not a fact, just my interpretation of why it wasn't given. Oliver then - to prove he was right not to give it, booked him for diving. Both decisions which were wrong.
    IMHO
    As for JJ following corporate hostility to Spurs.....really?
     
  8. Five

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    He is shite.
     
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  9. Park Lane Mark Twain

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    You've also got to take into account the players Leicester used yesterday compared to other games. I watched a fair old bit of West Brom this season and Harvey Barnes was used a lot for them a season an attacking outlet.

    With no Vardy in the starting XI and with Barnes only just coming back to Leicester from his loan it's hard to say if it was the targeting of our weak areas they were trying to exploit more or due to their personnel etc.

    I do think we need a couple of new fullbacks either side as I don't see enough of the ones we have, bar when Rose goes on one of his runs that offers anywhere near enough in defence or going forward but I don't know/ think Leicester targeted Trippier yesterday.

    One thing to note as well is that for all of our supposed frailties we have scored the 3rd most goals in the league and conceded the 3rd lowest, only 5 goals behind City in 2nd so it can't be as bad as some believe it to be both ends of the field
     
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  10. Guido

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    This is what happens when you judge a player by numbers, you are actually making a claim that Frodo is a better player than Rose based on numbers!!!! GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE SEA.
    :dembelelol:

    Time and time again you hang onto fucking assist stats, the fucking worst stat in football. You do realize that some of those assists are fucking throw-ins!!! You do realise that many of those assists are against Hull and Watford!! He has the lowest pass percentage in the side, the two biggest contributors to this are a) his crosses b) his inability to pass when put under pressure. He crosses BECAUSE he can't keep the ball at his feet, he lacks the technical ability to do so, he crosses because he can't take-on the oppo, he lacks that technical ability to so. These are the prerequisites you look for in advanced FB's, we are left with a one trick pony, reduced to doing the only thing he can. And this usually results in us giving the ball away and the oppo enjoying more opportunity to attack us down our right than ever before.

    I couldn't give a fuck about Tripps stats, it's now become blatantly obvious to all bar a handful of people he's shit and a total liability in more games than he has good. You are completely blind to the fact that he's our weak-link and targeted relentlessly by the oppo. But hey, do carry-on ignoring this and wank over his assist stats all you like.

    Have you seen MOTD2 yet, the 47% of their attacks down his side? Oh, this doesn't mean anything because of his assist stats, Fuck Off!!
     
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  11. bus-conductor

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    Says the bloke hanging his bollocks made up theory on a single MOTD2 graphic.

    LOFuckingL
     
  12. Spursidol

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    I watched a clip a couple of times and its quite clear that he was tripped and when going down his foot went in between Madison's feet - but I'm not sue Oliver would have seen that ? Either way Oliver should have seen the original offence as its was pretty blatant and the penalty should have been given.

    I'm really not sure why JJ could have thought it was not a penalty - even the Sky lads (anti Spurs and pro Liverpool or Woolwich to a man) conceded it was a penalty
     
  13. Park Lane Mark Twain

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    JJ jumped on the bandwagon mate, even Dermot Gallagher says it was a blatant imbalance from the ref:

    Ref Watch: Heung-Min Son 'dive' should have been a penalty, says Dermot Gallagher

    DERMOT SAYS: I thought it was a penalty - it's certainly not simulation, is it? There is so much contact that even if you say that he initiated it, it would be very difficult. I think the expected decision there for everyone was a penalty.

    An ex ref says it how he sees it yet The Sun go with a story saying 4th Spurs player booked. Anyone see their agenda and how the media use subtle droplets of info to sway people. I haven't read anything from a Journalist about how Michael Oliver has refused two blatant penalties for us this season, both when Sonny got tripped which could have given our season a very different look to it if things in both games (Liverpool & yesterday vs Leicester) had gone differently
     
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  14. Spursidol

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    #34 Spursidol, 11 Feb 2019
    Last edited: 11 Feb 2019
    Ok glad we are in agreement on that part.

    Against lower PL sides (and Leicester are probably at around the border of the lower PL sides and the better PL sides (and I might even include Wolves in that list these days), the tactics probably work in enticing teams to play rather than park the bus - or their forwards are not good enough to take advantage and if they do our forwards are good enough to score (as shown by our scoring 3rd highest goals in PL). But I think that Trippier does have a positive attacking threat against those sides.

    But against the better PL sides those tactics are much higher risk. Poch could tell Trippier to take a less high position up the pitch, or even forgo the attacking side of his game and just defend, but I don't think Poch does, so its a risk Poch seems prepared to take (and as I have said before against better sides to include Trippier the risk needs lowering by using 3 CB's) .

    However Poch is still picking Trippier as no 1 RB regardless of the opposition (and maybe he shares my view that Aurier is bang average and has no advantages over Trippier) and (against my judgement) doesn't seem to trust Walker-Peters as RB which is why he's only started abut a dozen games in 3 years (my guess is Poch is concerned .KWP has not yet developed physically as much as Poch would like).

    So I think for the rest of the season, unless Poch starts to play KWP nothing will change, In the summer I certainly hope we upgrade Aurier, and quite possibly Trippier (but in that order)
     
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  15. Guido

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    For me I think Aurier is a better all-round footballer than Tripps, he's not top draw but he can defend better, has a greater technical ability which enables him to play out from the back whilst being pressed, link with the midfield (I'd say he and Sissoko have formed a noticeable partnership too) and he take-on the oppo and get behind them, (although not often enough for my liking). Athletically he's marginally better than Tripps (this judgement is based on the number of recovery runs made). Finally for those that judge players on the myth's of assists, then he's output per mins played is far, far, far superior to that of Tripps, in fact, a couple of the crosses he's whipped in piss on anything that Frodo has produced. Why doesn't Poch play him? No idea. I trust Poch's decisions however and maybe his issues relate to how he trains than how he plays??? Maybe his recovery is shit? (so I might be wrong on his athleticism), he has picked up injuries a lot this season, no idea if these are genuine or spun when a player isn't selected. I just think we look more assured when he starts, more in control of a game, less panic when defending, especially when being countered on.

    With KWP I can only assume it's his physicality that is an issue, much like we saw with Skipp on Sunday when they go to engage the oppo they end up running alongside the player, it looks easy fro the oppo to still keep the ball, they are still making yards up the pitch despite their attention.

    We do want to draw teams onto us, but IMO not via our FB's pushed up unless we are putting pressure on their defense (this season it's in the main a one player press) again it's risk vs reward and the percentages we are usually happy with, the number of times attacks mounted this way that results in anything serious are still small and where we encourage it, set traps, is when ONE attacker or AM presses whoever is on the ball, we make no attempt to win it, just get the oppo to play it long and quickly, we usually regain possession when this happens. However, where we are getting fucked is when teams play short into these areas, we are literally being pulled out of shape, you mentioned Wolves game, it was very similar to yesterday, numerous short balls played around and through Tripps. This wasn't us setting traps for them and drawing them onto us, we were simply getting outplayed and had no control whatsoever.
     
  16. Bazali

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    Either it was a penalty or it wasn’t

    In my opinion it was

    Similarly in my opinion Jan’s tackle wasn't but they were different types of tackle so it’s wrong to say if you give one you have to give the other or vice versa, in my opinion
     
  17. Guido

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    I've been consistently saying it, showed you accumulative stats to back it up and now, just told you to go take a look at it as it was mentioned on MOTD2 I don't write, I don't put together flowcharts and diagrams, so I have to wait until someone else does, but hey his assists stats, his assists stats, his assists, stats his assists stats, his assists stats, his assists stats............

    When was his last assist by the way, this prolific attacking threat of ours?
     
  18. Spursidol

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    IMO Aurier gives us little that Trippier doesn't - before he arrived I salivated at youtube footage showing him race past players in the French league whilst playing fir PSG. But neither last season nor this season have I seen him outpace any opposition player - in fact I think he's unused to pace so doesn't recognise his vulnerability to pace when caught upfield whereas Trippier I think does recognise the vulnerability.

    I'm not convinced his passing or crossing is better than Trippier - although Trippier atm is nowhere as good as he looked playing fir England at WC. But I do agree he can link well with Sissoko - but that was mainly of benefit last season when Sissoko was playing RM/RW. This season with Sissoko playing as CM, I'm not sure the link is anything like as beneficial, but of course 'every little helps'

    But whether Aurier is marginally better or no than Tripper is not really the point - Aurier is nothing like as good as he looked playing for PSG, and in PL terms just not a 'Top 4' PL starter.

    I'd go as far as listing Aurier as a mistake for Poch to have bought (just like Janssen - looked ok on paper, hasn't really worked out - Janssen obviously riled Poch otherwise he'd still be in the squad, and possibly making as much or more contribution than Aurier )

    If/When Poch is happy with KWP's physical; development (something we seem to agree is Poch's concern at using KWP), I think we'll see a much improved RB position as KWP is a far superior attacker to both (as an u15 he used to be a striker so still able to use those skills - as we saw when KWP came on as LB in the FA Cup last season v Rochdale) and with the pace and stamina to get up and down the pitch, and his crossing and passing were very good, certainly by u21 standards - problem with Poch not playing him much is whether he's not progressed/developed as much as he should have done.

    Only problem with upgrading Aurier (and Trippier) is that whoever comes on is likely to put KWP into 2nd place - although if Poch rotates the FB's that may not be such an issue.
     
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  19. bus-conductor

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    If any more invalidation of your argument was needed, this laughable statement says it all. He's been a fucking joke for most of his time here and at PSG - why do you think they wanted shot of him despite not having a WC alternative. Possibly the first footballer under Poch to be so bad he's been subbed at half time, and that was two weeks ago, after being here two years.

    It was idiotic to buy him when we KWP already here.

    It's moronic to blame Trippier for them having as much time and space as they did to play those balls through/behind us yesterday. They also did it to Sissoko and Rose and both our CB's. We are supposed to pressurise their FB's and midfield into coughing up the ball and making poor passes, our attackers and midfield, especially the right side didn't do this. I blamed Trippier for being poorly positioned for the first time Tielemans played Brooks in, but you can't blame him any more than you can Sissoko, Rose and the CB's for the other instances, they just had positional overloads that made balls inside our players easy. That is not the fault of the schmuck who gets played past, that's the fault of those around and ahead of them letting that situation develop or them just playing good football - both in many cases.

    This is a daft as this silly bollocks you and others spout about him getting caught "out of position upfield and not having the pace to get back" ignoring that no player can be in two places at once, or blaming his crosses for being the only way "we lose the ball upfield allowing opposition to counter". Rose gives the ball away more than Trippier. He's also a pretty shit defender and always has been, continually standing off opponents and allowing players to get balls into out box.

    Leicester outsmarted and outplayed us yesterday. That was not down to Trippier. They had Ndidi mopping up and stifling Eriksen, and as a result he saw 40% less of the ball than he usually averages. They also had Maddison and Tielemans who are comfortable getting on the ball and picking passes, where we had Skip and fucking Sissoko who didn't (Skipp) aren't (Sissoko). Sissoko is supposed to prevent a to of what went on right side, but he's shit at pressing and is a terrible reader of the game, trundles about like a turtle in a fucking windsock and also doesn't want the ball under pressure because his technique is so bad.

    Their RB, who many rate, also made a mistake which gave us a goal. Irony.

    I'll be delighted when we upgrade Trippier, I just don't really see who that's going to be. I'd love to see KWP get games, been saying that for 4 years. But there aren't too many RB's available to us out there right now who are a sure thing in terms of an all round package, great offensively, which is vital to Poch's ethos, and great defensively.

    That is the bottom line.
     
  20. Guido

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    We're totally aligned with KWP.

    100% agree with Aurier's pace, he doesn't have any (I thought he did too) but I'd say he's as fast as Tripps or should that be as slow as Tripps. I do disagree where you say he's less aware of it that Tripps, Tripps heat maps (ave position) would have him far more advanced than Aurier (whether this is because Poch plays Trips more as a wing-back probably does but don't have the inclination to check), also he attempts to make a recovery run, Tripps simply doesn't.

    Really wish we sold Tripps after the World cup, what a killing we could have made, still we still can given the sum we paid. However, I doubt we will sell him, Aurier far more likely given the shuffling of the pack we have to do when it comes to homegrown players.
     
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