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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
Have we improved?

I look at our team and how we play every week and I don't see a team coming off the back of a title chasing season. I don't see a team that's grown in experience and learnt from anything that happened last season.

What I do see is how other teams around us have stopped performing like shit and now have some of the worlds finest managers managing them, sorted them out and are showing us exactly where we are in the pecking order really.

2015/2016:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 24
Against: 11

2016/2017:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 19
Against: 10

Pretty similar from last season. Obviously, if we keep this up and we match a lot from last season we'd end up on 70 odd points again. Which is usually about good enough for 5th place, sometimes 4th obviously depending on other teams performances.

Now let's look at the results from last season in the same fixtures we've played this season and have a look and see if we've improved at all:

2015/2016:
26 points from the exact same fixtures we've played this season

2016/2017:
24 points so far this season.

Our best unbeaten run this season was our opening 12 games. Though a lot of those games were draws. Our best unbeaten run last season was 14 games which come directly after our loss on the opening day of last season. That also harbored a lot of draws. Once again, we haven't really improved that aspect of our game.

I think we're a great team, I think we have a great manager but I just wish expectations of the team weren't so high basing everything from last season. It was a FREAK season. Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd ALL finished outside of the top four, when was the last time that happened? Man City finished FOURTH and Leicester won the fucking league.

Funnily enough, this year the norm returned. We have Leicester on the verge of battling relegation much like the season before. We have Man City and Chelsea back at the top of the table. Liverpool are hitting their stride and are on a 15 game unbeaten run in all competitions, Woolwich are on an 18 game unbeaten run in all competitions. We aren't better than ANY of the teams above us and that fucking pains me. Last season was the best oppertunity we had to win the league and it saddens me that we couldn't do it, nor could we capitilise on such a great season with a smart summer and a real crack at the Champions League.

You fast forward from April (when we were competing), we have managed to stagnate. Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea have all improved (two of which have since employed two of the best managers in world football to coach the team), we haven't really improved our squad, knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League without even really bothering and all we really have to look forward to this year is a hope that the FA Cup is treated with more respect and the hope that we keep our players fit and manage to compete for fourth place.

Fans need to grasp that. I've seen talk of Poch being under pressure? Really!? We are in the EXACT same position as we were last season and he wasn't getting such talk. In fact, he got us knocked out of the League Cup at home to Woolwich last year (one stage earlier than we got knocked out this season) and he was playing youth in the Europa League yet I don't rememer any of this talk last season.

We are in a position our spending allows us to be. We overachieved last season mixed in with the fact that the top teams that outspend us under-performed. I've said it before, I'll say it time and time again, our squad is FULL of 7/10 players but we have a system and manager that when in place sees our team perform at a 9/10 (at times a 10/10 when it all clicks). The problem is, the players themselves need to step up. Dier, Alli, Dembele, Eriksen for example are all below par this season, all four at times were CRUCIAL last year.

I'm almost glad that unbeaten run is over. During that unbeaten run we got knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League and all it proved in the league was that we were better then the likes of Everton, Southampton and Man Utd. Hopefully the loss kicks some sense into the players, play like we did in the first half against Chelsea and we'll be a force. We PRESSED, which we have hardly done all season, our passing was very good and we constantly cut Chelsea apart, for whatever reason that stopped in the second half but we know we can do it, the players cared.

The expectations this season were raised significantly based on our position last year (despite fans not looking at the bigger picture as well as realising that our total points haul was below par), this has made things challenging whenever we fail to beat a team we should beat (despite also not beating them last season), we are a young team, one thats experienced injuries and we need to understand this is what happens.

But...

We are Tottenham. We have a very young team, an inexperienced manager who has improved our team and style within the 3 years he has been here. We are raising our profile, we have a new stadium coming within the next few years and we're ONLY going to get better.

My question at the start of the post was 'Have we improved?' - you answer the question.
 

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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
much better than pre Poch, worst than last season
but HAVE we been worse?

Isn't picking up results when you're not at your best a sign of a great team? We have the exact same amount of points we had at this point last year.

Sure, based on the same fixtures we are 2 points down but that's a loss at Stamford Bridge, a place we haven't won in 27 years. We are more than capable of making that up by getting something at Old Trafford in a few weeks for example.

Bare in mind we've had to play Eric Dier at centre half, a young unproven Winks in central midfield at times, half fit Dembele, Janssen up top and Son who couldn't even get in our team last year.
 
It kind of annoys me when anyone (even our own, but especially arse and plastic leicester fans) suggests last season we "lost the title" or were "title contenders".

Let's be honest, we just happened to rise above the other teams who lost a load of points. It was a low point season.

It's not like we spent half the season in 2nd - we spent 70% of the season in 4th/5th, and had a consistent run when other teams didn't.

So the reason why we don't look like we were title chasers last season, is because we weren't.
 

Totti

Chess extraordinaire
It kind of annoys me when anyone (even our own, but especially arse and plastic leicester fans) suggests last season we "lost the title" or were "title contenders".

Let's be honest, we just happened to rise above the other teams who lost a load of points. It was a low point season.

It's not like we spent half the season in 2nd - we spent 70% of the season in 4th/5th, and had a consistent run when other teams didn't.

So the reason why we don't look like we were title chasers last season, is because we weren't.

It's just an easy way of people to 'gloat' that we didn't win the league, despite those that are gloating support the likes of United, City, Chelsea, Liverpool (who all failed to even finish in the top 3).

What they don't seem to grasp is that we didn't lose anything. We were NEVER top, not once. In fact I think the only time we found ourselves top was the 20 minutes between Kane putting us ahead in the NLD and Sanchez equalising. I think everyone else who finished in the top 6 last season were top at one point, BESIDES Spurs.
 
Very well said Totti Totti
Not one summer signing improved the starting XI. The clubs we rose above last season all have done that.

Part of why they're all top 4 and we're 5th at present.
 

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SchmoodSpur

wrong nearly always
It kind of annoys me when anyone (even our own, but especially arse and plastic leicester fans) suggests last season we "lost the title" or were "title contenders".

Let's be honest, we just happened to rise above the other teams who lost a load of points. It was a low point season.

It's not like we spent half the season in 2nd - we spent 70% of the season in 4th/5th, and had a consistent run when other teams didn't.

So the reason why we don't look like we were title chasers last season, is because we weren't.
Leicester got 28 points out of their last possible 36.

We were never catching them, even if we beat Chelsea and Woolwich.

Leicester won the league as proven by that points tally. You can't lose what you never had.

That said, we were ''contenders'', we were just beaten.
 
Have we improved?

I look at our team and how we play every week and I don't see a team coming off the back of a title chasing season. I don't see a team that's grown in experience and learnt from anything that happened last season.

What I do see is how other teams around us have stopped performing like shit and now have some of the worlds finest managers managing them, sorted them out and are showing us exactly where we are in the pecking order really.

2015/2016:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 24
Against: 11

2016/2017:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 19
Against: 10

Pretty similar from last season. Obviously, if we keep this up and we match a lot from last season we'd end up on 70 odd points again. Which is usually about good enough for 5th place, sometimes 4th obviously depending on other teams performances.

Now let's look at the results from last season in the same fixtures we've played this season and have a look and see if we've improved at all:

2015/2016:
26 points from the exact same fixtures we've played this season

2016/2017:
24 points so far this season.

Our best unbeaten run this season was our opening 12 games. Though a lot of those games were draws. Our best unbeaten run last season was 14 games which come directly after our loss on the opening day of last season. That also harbored a lot of draws. Once again, we haven't really improved that aspect of our game.

I think we're a great team, I think we have a great manager but I just wish expectations of the team weren't so high basing everything from last season. It was a FREAK season. Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd ALL finished outside of the top four, when was the last time that happened? Man City finished FOURTH and Leicester won the fucking league.

Funnily enough, this year the norm returned. We have Leicester on the verge of battling relegation much like the season before. We have Man City and Chelsea back at the top of the table. Liverpool are hitting their stride and are on a 15 game unbeaten run in all competitions, Woolwich are on an 18 game unbeaten run in all competitions. We aren't better than ANY of the teams above us and that fucking pains me. Last season was the best oppertunity we had to win the league and it saddens me that we couldn't do it, nor could we capitilise on such a great season with a smart summer and a real crack at the Champions League.

You fast forward from April (when we were competing), we have managed to stagnate. Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea have all improved (two of which have since employed two of the best managers in world football to coach the team), we haven't really improved our squad, knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League without even really bothering and all we really have to look forward to this year is a hope that the FA Cup is treated with more respect and the hope that we keep our players fit and manage to compete for fourth place.

Fans need to grasp that. I've seen talk of Poch being under pressure? Really!? We are in the EXACT same position as we were last season and he wasn't getting such talk. In fact, he got us knocked out of the League Cup at home to Woolwich last year (one stage earlier than we got knocked out this season) and he was playing youth in the Europa League yet I don't rememer any of this talk last season.

We are in a position our spending allows us to be. We overachieved last season mixed in with the fact that the top teams that outspend us under-performed. I've said it before, I'll say it time and time again, our squad is FULL of 7/10 players but we have a system and manager that when in place sees our team perform at a 9/10 (at times a 10/10 when it all clicks). The problem is, the players themselves need to step up. Dier, Alli, Dembele, Eriksen for example are all below par this season, all four at times were CRUCIAL last year.

I'm almost glad that unbeaten run is over. During that unbeaten run we got knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League and all it proved in the league was that we were better then the likes of Everton, Southampton and Man Utd. Hopefully the loss kicks some sense into the players, play like we did in the first half against Chelsea and we'll be a force. We PRESSED, which we have hardly done all season, our passing was very good and we constantly cut Chelsea apart, for whatever reason that stopped in the second half but we know we can do it, the players cared.

The expectations this season were raised significantly based on our position last year (despite fans not looking at the bigger picture as well as realising that our total points haul was below par), this has made things challenging whenever we fail to beat a team we should beat (despite also not beating them last season), we are a young team, one thats experienced injuries and we need to understand this is what happens.

But...

We are Tottenham. We have a very young team, an inexperienced manager who has improved our team and style within the 3 years he has been here. We are raising our profile, we have a new stadium coming within the next few years and we're ONLY going to get better.

My question at the start of the post was 'Have we improved?' - you answer the question.
:dembelefingers:
What a waste of breath. I didn't read your essay after the first 2 lines. I'm sure I didn't miss much. Fucking stupid, over egging of an already over egged pudding.
Come on, you are surely better than this?
 
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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
Leicester got 28 points out of their last possible 36.

We were never catching them, even if we beat Chelsea and Woolwich.

Leicester won the league as proven by that points tally. You can't lose what you never had.

That said, we were ''contenders'', we were just beaten.

And we had to play what seemed like every match on the Monday after them. We never stood a chance.
 
No, we have done the opposite. Just as expected. Some fans said towards the end of season that "Next season we'll walk the league!". I found that ridiculous.

You make some good points. I would like to add that last season took a hell of a toll on our players, both physically and mentally. You could witness the mental fatigue in the game against Chelsea, and in the following games. The physical fatigue presented itself particularly in the last game, in the Euros and in the injuries we've seen this season.

We are a young side. We were even younger last season. Being up there, fighting for the title, brings a lot of pressure. That's hard for a young side. Having literally everyone not a fan or member of the club side against you probably doesn't make it easier. Slipping up towards the end makes it even harder (see Liverpool's collapse after the Gerrard slip).

Alli and Dier got way too much attention last season. Bigger clubs tends to protect young, inexperienced players from the media circus. We made them our centre pieces. Alli started his decline towards the end of last season. Dier got it hard following the Euros.

Dembele can't really be accused for not playing like he did last season, as he's been injured.

All in all I think a drop in performances was to be expected. I do think, though, that we've made it a bit harder for ourselves by experimenting with formations that does not suit our players.

We've seen some very positive performances against the best teams, which in y opinion proves we still have the quality to match them when we manage to mobilize. Hopefully we can find the energy to mobilize against lesser teams as well, now that there will be a period without those annoying international breaks and CL games.
 

I8AVB

Suspended
Have we improved. Yes, we are a better team than we were under Santini, Jol and AVB. However, we are worse than we were under Harry, Sherwood, and Sir Bill. If we are comparing with last season, I would say worse, as last year we were pressing a lot more, and the players appeared to be far more interested. The simple fact is that our only chance of winning anything this year is the FA cup, and as the manager shows a total disregard and lack of respect for it, we won't win that either
 
Have we improved. Yes, we are a better team than we were under Santini, Jol and AVB. However, we are worse than we were under Harry, Sherwood, and Sir Bill. If we are comparing with last season, I would say worse, as last year we were pressing a lot more, and the players appeared to be far more interested. The simple fact is that our only chance of winning anything this year is the FA cup, and as the manager shows a total disregard and lack of respect for it, we won't win that either
ray of sunshine.
 
Have we improved. Yes, we are a better team than we were under Santini, Jol and AVB. However, we are worse than we were under Harry, Sherwood, and Sir Bill. If we are comparing with last season, I would say worse, as last year we were pressing a lot more, and the players appeared to be far more interested. The simple fact is that our only chance of winning anything this year is the FA cup, and as the manager shows a total disregard and lack of respect for it, we won't win that either
Better under Sherwood.
Your having a fucking laugh, surely.
 
Have we improved. Yes, we are a better team than we were under Santini, Jol and AVB. However, we are worse than we were under Harry, Sherwood, and Sir Bill. If we are comparing with last season, I would say worse, as last year we were pressing a lot more, and the players appeared to be far more interested. The simple fact is that our only chance of winning anything this year is the FA cup, and as the manager shows a total disregard and lack of respect for it, we won't win that either
Its funny that you can go back 5, 10......50 years to claim we are worse, but you cant see past the last 8wks when looking at improvements, and the potential of the club right now.

Its a work in motion, and there will be ups and downs along the way.

Kane out for 7 weeks, Toby for a month, Lamela since before we drew with Leicester....Dier at CB and lost just one game sitting 7pts off top with TWENTY FIVE games left. 75pts left to play for.

Funny how when we were 7pts points behind Leicester with about 5 games left we all believed, right up until Chelsea......yeah yeah, Liverpool and Chelsea are better this year....that doesnt mean we have gone backwards though does it.

If we're doing so poorly, should'nt they by out of sight? We done well through our injuries period, lets see of Liverpool can go 12 unbeaten without Coutinho and Lallana.

Lets see if Chelsea win another 7 on the spin if Costa, Hazard and Luiz gets injured and Kante has to go CB..
 

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Have we improved. Yes, we are a better team than we were under Santini, Jol and AVB. However, we are worse than we were under Harry, Sherwood, and Sir Bill. If we are comparing with last season, I would say worse, as last year we were pressing a lot more, and the players appeared to be far more interested. The simple fact is that our only chance of winning anything this year is the FA cup, and as the manager shows a total disregard and lack of respect for it, we won't win that either
Better under Sherwood. :walker:

You fucking whopper.
 
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