Harry Winks

[TomHotspur]

Vs Villa it was a tactical switch (to bring on a more attacking player in Eriksen).
Vs Palace likely to be to get Ndombele some game time before the CL game.
Vs City again it was as much tactical as anything else.

If we've had to replace our main midfielder pretty early in 3 of 4 League games, even if it is just for 'tactical reasons' as you say, then surely something somewhere isn't quite right?

Winks just does not have the required traits to play the position he's being asked to play; period. One of the main reasons we look so vulnerable to counter attacks is because we have no decent defensive midfielder protecting the back four. We've had in and around 70 attempts on our goal from opposition teams in the opening 4 games. Compare that to Liverpool(38) and City (31), neither of whom have hugely better defenders than us but most certainly do have much better defensive midfielders than us, and you can see why it is a problem.

It's such a massively important position on the pitch that I'm quite frankly shocked we didn't even appear to attempt to address during the summer.

 

[bus-conductor]

If we've had to replace our main midfielder pretty early in 3 of 4 League games, even if it is just for 'tactical reasons' as you say, then surely something somewhere isn't quite right?

Winks just does not have the required traits to play the position he's being asked to play; period. One of the main reasons we look so vulnerable to counter attacks is because we have no decent defensive midfielder protecting the back four. We've had in and around 70 attempts on our goal from opposition teams in the opening 4 games. Compare that to Liverpool(38) and City (31), neither of whom have hugely better defenders than us but most certainly do have much better defensive midfielders than us, and you can see why it is a problem.

It's such a massively important position on the pitch that I'm quite frankly shocked we didn't even appear to attempt to address during the summer.

It's not just about us missing a proper Dm/6 though Tom, this is about defending as a team, the coach tactically setting us up and coaching us on what we should be doing collectively.

Chelsea finished above us last year playing Jorgino as the deep pivot in a CM3 - using Kante as a kind 8/6 hybrid ahead/right of him.

I'd love us to have picked up a decent footballing 6 in the summer, or to be giving Skipp more game time ahead of Sissoko, and switch us to a 433 to compensate for not having a proper experienced 6, but Poch chucking Sissoko and Winks out in CM2's - especially against the likes of Arse and City away - and not getting players ahead and around them pressing the ball cohesively as a unit is fucking piss poor tactically.


I don't know what's going on with Wink's continually being subbed off when in most games he's been our best midfielder by a mile, if Poch is trying to look after him, then fair do's, but if it's been tactical then it's been piss poor by Poch on most of the occasions.

 

[Airfixx]

If we've had to replace our main midfielder pretty early in 3 of 4 League games, even if it is just for 'tactical reasons' as you say, then surely something somewhere isn't quite right?

That's an entirely different discussion though....

I was responding to your somewhat unfounded comments about him lacking energy leading to him being subbed off all the time.

Chelsea finished above us last year playing Jorgino as the deep pivot in a CM3 - using Kante as a kind 8/6 hybrid ahead/right of him.

I'd love us to have picked up a decent footballing 6 in the summer, or to be giving Skipp more game time ahead of Sissoko, and switch us to a 433 to compensate for not having a proper experienced 6, but Poch chucking Sissoko and Winks out in CM2's - especially against the likes of Arse and City away - and not getting players ahead and around them pressing the ball cohesively as a unit is fucking piss poor tactically.


I don't know what's going on with Wink's continually being subbed off when in most games he's been our best midfielder by a mile, if Poch is trying to look after him, then fair do's, but if it's been tactical then it's been piss poor by Poch on most of the occasions.

Winks
Ndombele
Lo Celso
Sissoko
Dier
Skipp
(Wanyama)

We could have the player you allude to in Skipp. Let's see what our central midfield looks like when we get everyone fit before making critical assumptions about what Poch's longer term intentions are.

 

[TomHotspur]

It's not just about us missing a proper Dm/6 though Tom, this is about defending as a team, the coach tactically setting us up and coaching us on what we should be doing collectively.

Chelsea finished above us last year playing Jorgino as the deep pivot in a CM3 - using Kante as a kind 8/6 hybrid ahead/right of him.

I'd love us to have picked up a decent footballing 6 in the summer, or to be giving Skipp more game time ahead of Sissoko, and switch us to a 433 to compensate for not having a proper experienced 6, but Poch chucking Sissoko and Winks out in CM2's - especially against the likes of Arse and City away - and not getting players ahead and around them pressing the ball cohesively as a unit is fucking piss poor tactically.


I don't know what's going on with Wink's continually being subbed off when in most games he's been our best midfielder by a mile, if Poch is trying to look after him, then fair do's, but if it's been tactical then it's been piss poor by Poch on most of the occasions.

I would agree with your thoughts here BC, but for the fact that there is clear evidence that when we did have a specialist DM/destroyer in the team, we looked much, much better defensively. (Namely when we had peak Wanyama in 16/17 and to a lesser extent Dier in 15/16.)

 

[Freundian slip]

I would agree with your thoughts here BC, but for the fact that there is clear evidence that when we did have a specialist DM/destroyer in the team, we looked much, much better defensively. (Namely when we had peak Wanyama in 16/17 and to a lesser extent Dier in 15/16.)

Yeah and Dembele did a great job in there too, we definitely miss that clever player who senses danger and breaks up counters, lets the full backs get forward etc

 

[Spursidol]

I would agree with your thoughts here BC, but for the fact that there is clear evidence that when we did have a specialist DM/destroyer in the team, we looked much, much better defensively. (Namely when we had peak Wanyama in 16/17 and to a lesser extent Dier in 15/16.)

Might I suggest both Wanyama and Dier looked better when they had Dembele beside them.

Wanyama with anyone else but Dembele looked a shadow of him with Dembele

 

[TomHotspur]

Might I suggest both Wanyama and Dier looked better when they had Dembele beside them.

Wanyama with anyone else but Dembele looked a shadow of him with Dembele

Nah mate don't think so. Even when Wanyama was next to Winks or even Dier that season, he was still a beast.

 

[Clynelish]

#class

 

[Baggio1]

Thought he was the only player that played well tonight. Showed urgency always gets stuck in and the only player that looked like he gave a shit tonight

 

[Marst0n]

Mr Consistent in our club. Not the flashiest or most talented, but always put a hard-working performance in.

 

[sudoku]

He was excellent tonight. Not MOTM but our best player.

 

[magi]

You all must be family or something.
He is not good enough and their penalty was him not handling pressure .. he's good at running at people but not good at closing down and position and nothing at atteck,
When the ball come through winks everything slow down because he just pass it safe ,must of the time to a player under pressure who just pass back to him .
Man I do love him but he needs to improve a lot

 

[iz futbal]

most of the time to a player under pressure who just pass back to him .

This part is for me his worst trait. Not really fully aware of who he is passing to. And many times he had the chance to make a quick pass forward but instead looked around a few times only to take the easiest option to pass to the fullback.

Still he was one of our better players today, so thats that.

 

[NorseYid]

I don't care if he works hard.

He's no number 6, he is a number 8. He shouldn't anchor our midfield ever.

Desperately needs a fit Eric Dier or Wanyama alongside him.

Ndombele is no number 6 either.

 

[Baggio1]

You all must be family or something.
He is not good enough and their penalty was him not handling pressure .. he's good at running at people but not good at closing down and position and nothing at atteck,
When the ball come through winks everything slow down because he just pass it safe ,must of the time to a player under pressure who just pass back to him .
Man I do love him but he needs to improve a lot

What you talking about the penalty was him not handling pressure? The cross came in he went for the header then was the first person to come close the player then it got passed on and the penalty was given away after that.
How you can say anything negative about winks or his display tonight with those absolute cunts alli and eriksen giving displays like that I'll never know

 

[VirginiaSpur]

#class

That cockerel is very poorly stitched on.

Unforgivable.

 

[rusty]

Winks is not a defensive midfielder, we need Dier or Wanayma back
things he can do, he keeps the ball ticking out
but he can't tackle, he can't see a pass, he doesn't sense danger

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

I'm going to open a can of worms on this one.

Although his ability with a football at his feet is clear and he's a cracking little talent, does our team have the steel running through it to accommodate him at the moment?

We give away cheap goals and don't have goals from CM in us. Clean sheets win you matches and whilst I think Winks has far more footballing ability than Dier, sometimes you need something that offers not what has higher quality, but what the team needs.

Simply put, does Winks offer enough to justify the lack of a natural DM? He's such a tough one to call as he's a lovely little baller but can a top 3-4 club rely on someone of his level as a guaranteed starter? I'm on the fence not because I don't rate him, more because I think we have leaks that he simply can't fill at the moment.

 

[SchmoodSpur]

I'm going to open a can of worms on this one.

Although his ability with a football at his feet is clear and he's a cracking little talent, does our team have the steel running through it to accommodate him at the moment?

We give away cheap goals and don't have goals from CM in us. Clean sheets win you matches and whilst I think Winks has far more footballing ability than Dier, sometimes you need something that offers not what has higher quality, but what the team needs.

Simply put, does Winks offer enough to justify the lack of a natural DM? He's such a tough one to call as he's a lovely little baller but can a top 3-4 club rely on someone of his level as a guaranteed starter? I'm on the fence not because I don't rate him, more because I think we have leaks that he simply can't fill at the moment.

Yes, if the manager plays the right formation.

It's patently obvious we need to play a DM. Poch, for some reason, is refusing to.

As one of the further forward CM's in a 4-3-3 he'd be one of the best in the League.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

Yes, if the manager plays the right formation.

It's patently obvious we need to play a DM. Poch, for some reason, is refusing to.

As one of the further forward CM's in a 4-3-3 he'd be one of the best in the League.

If thats the case and Winks plays a more offensive role in the team he needs to start chipping in with assists and goals. My question is has he got that in him despite his clear footballing ability?

I watched Fabinho for Liverpool earlier, without doubt we require someone like him. Could Sissoko offer that with his physique perhaps? He'd have to change his mindset a fair bit but he definitely has the physical attributes to cover the areas Fabinho does.

If Winks were to play in a midfield 3 he'd need to offer more. I love the kid but his goals and assists ability I really ain't too sold on.