Harry Kane

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steviespurs1964 said:
Surely no manager worth his salt would voluntarily pick an unfit player over a 100% fit player.
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It happens all the time. It's what pain-killing jabs are for!

You'll probably find that post Christmas most players are playing in some discomfort verging on pain. 2 games a week does it to you.

Normally, rotation gives some respite but if you haven't got the squad depth you're almost forced to play 90% fit players
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
So if Lucas had started and we had still lost to a more superior Liverpool team, one that has lost one league game all season, one that boasts world record transfers, that boasts a golden boot winner, a player of the year and a goalkeeper who won the golden glove with the 2nd highest clean sheets ever achieved by a GK in Premier League era would that also have been seen as the wrong decision not to play Harry?

Both managers dropped their match winners from the semi finals, both went with their bigger asset up front. The lesser team lost, that doesn't mean our manager who has done so much should come under scrutiny. It's a fickle old world but I expect more to see the bigger picture. Lucas still had half hour to make something happen and it wasn't to be,
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1. Klopp's decision to start Firmino is completely irrelevant when considering whether or not it was a good decision to start Kane. Much like the fact that the US chose a baffoon for president doesn't make it ok that the UK voted to leave the EU. Two wrongs do not make a right.
2. Klopp's decision isn't the same as Poch's. Firmino hadn't been out for as long as Kane, hadn't suffered the same injury, and quite possibly don't have the same history of always being a slow starter after injuries and breaks.
3. Whether or not Klopp is criticised for his decision, partly or fully due to the circumstances, does not alter the quality of his decision. Which - in retrospect/hindsight seems bad (I need hindsight for that one, because I do not know Firmino and his injury and comeback history as well as I do that of Kane).
4. The fact that we were underdogs and quite possibly would have lost even if we had started e. g. Moura for Kane does not mean that the decisions made by Pochettino had no impact and that they can not be criticised.
5. Some have probably voiced criticism towards Klopps decision to start Firmino.
6. Being critical of single decisions must be allowed and accepted. I am a huge fan of Poch and have previously said that I would find it such a huge blow if we lost him that I might lose interest in football for a while. He is a brilliant guy in so many ways. However, as all others he is not without faults. One of his faults is his tendency to pick his favourites no matter the circumstances - unless he rests the for bigger occasions. That tendency had him choose Kane. That choice was bad, given Kane's history (NOT given the result!).
7. I do not judge the quality of a decision based on the result of the decision. The result, in most situations, and in particular in football, is highly effected by random events. The quality of a decision can only be judged based on the information at hand at the time of the decision. Of course, I do not have all the information Poch had, but from what I know of what he should have known, I can only conclude the decision was bad.
 
steviespurs1964 said:
Poch isn't allowed to pick his own team if that makes us toxic then so be it. Kane wasn't fit end of in my eyes he's a great player but he is calling the shots at the club and Poch can't do anything about it. Can you honestly say that potchettino has full say who is playing in the team??
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Absolute fucking nonsense.
 
mikes01666 said:
It happens all the time. It's what pain-killing jabs are for!

You'll probably find that post Christmas most players are playing in some discomfort verging on pain. 2 games a week does it to you.

Normally, rotation gives some respite but if you haven't got the squad depth you're almost forced to play 90% fit players
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Spot on but it goes even further than that. Kane and Firminho on Saturday, as I said Gazza in the '91 semi, Rooney in the World Cup, I'm sure that there are many, many other examples.
 
Hulk said:
Absolute fucking nonsense.
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Agreed. No way is Kane dictating that he has to play. He could be overly persistent. Gaffer , I am 100% ready , really need to play , etc etc. which would persuade Poch a lot more than if someone else tried.. But he should have put the team first and admitted he isnt ready and shouldnt have gotten in the way of someone fitter and in good form start instead.
 
adasai said:
Agreed. No way is Kane dictating that he has to play. He could be overly persistent. Gaffer , I am 100% ready , really need to play , etc etc. which would persuade Poch a lot more than if someone else tried.. But he should have put the team first and admitted he isnt ready and shouldnt have gotten in the way of someone fitter and in good form start instead.
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...But what about all the hi-tech medical/fitness gear we have....?

We hear about how closely the players are monitored these days. Surley there's more to it than:

"How's the ankle Harry?"

"Sweet, Boss... Start me."
 
If Kane breaks down while playing for England, it will rankle big time.

He is definitely in dangerof believing his own hype in my opinion.

This should have been a summer away from footy until pre-season. Same goes for Alli.
 
Airfixx said:
...But what about all the hi-tech medical/fitness gear we have....?

We hear about how closely the players are monitored these days. Surley there's more to it than:

"How's the ankle Harry?"

"Sweet, Boss... Start me."
Click to expand...
Looks like Poch trusted Harry's word more than these hitech gear because the Kane we saw on the pitch was a weaker slower version of the usual Kane.
 
But you are talking about match fitness which isn't possible to have having not played for 55 days! Being fit to play and being in proper match fitness mode are two entirely different things-you see it in pre season and opening few games of the season every single year because its impossible to have the latter without the former and playing games-a luxury the two harrys didnt have!
He risked a fit WC no 9 because he thought it was the best option having Kane on the pitch.
 
tbonepremier said:
1. Klopp's decision to start Firmino is completely irrelevant when considering whether or not it was a good decision to start Kane. Much like the fact that the US chose a baffoon for president doesn't make it ok that the UK voted to leave the EU. Two wrongs do not make a right.
2. Klopp's decision isn't the same as Poch's. Firmino hadn't been out for as long as Kane, hadn't suffered the same injury, and quite possibly don't have the same history of always being a slow starter after injuries and breaks.
3. Whether or not Klopp is criticised for his decision, partly or fully due to the circumstances, does not alter the quality of his decision. Which - in retrospect/hindsight seems bad (I need hindsight for that one, because I do not know Firmino and his injury and comeback history as well as I do that of Kane).
4. The fact that we were underdogs and quite possibly would have lost even if we had started e. g. Moura for Kane does not mean that the decisions made by Pochettino had no impact and that they can not be criticised.
5. Some have probably voiced criticism towards Klopps decision to start Firmino.
6. Being critical of single decisions must be allowed and accepted. I am a huge fan of Poch and have previously said that I would find it such a huge blow if we lost him that I might lose interest in football for a while. He is a brilliant guy in so many ways. However, as all others he is not without faults. One of his faults is his tendency to pick his favourites no matter the circumstances - unless he rests the for bigger occasions. That tendency had him choose Kane. That choice was bad, given Kane's history (NOT given the result!).
7. I do not judge the quality of a decision based on the result of the decision. The result, in most situations, and in particular in football, is highly effected by random events. The quality of a decision can only be judged based on the information at hand at the time of the decision. Of course, I do not have all the information Poch had, but from what I know of what he should have known, I can only conclude the decision was bad.
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How boring of you to bring brexit and trump in to a football forum bore of with that shit no one cares .
 
Notabadsquad said:
If Kane breaks down while playing for England, it will rankle big time.

He is definitely in dangerof believing his own hype in my opinion.

This should have been a summer away from footy until pre-season. Same goes for Alli.
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Kanes has always had 100% beleif in his own ability, no need to believe any hype... It's what's made him the player he is
 
Was it Right or Wrong to start him could be a debate for years to come with no right or wrong answer.....
What we do know tho, Kane’s performance was abysmal, and by the standards he has set over the past few years it was probably worse than abysmal.
Was that to do with fitness, match fitness or just a general bad day at the office for him? Who can say for sure what the reasons were, but it’s his actual performance that should be the real question.
My personal opinion hasnt changed since seeing the team selection, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I seen him in the starting line up, not because Lucas deserved to start, not because Llorente does, but because he had to be ring rusty, he just had to be.
 
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Strength can actually increase with a break, often top athletes train up to an event and start tapering down two weeks before, this has the effect dropping your fitness but increasing your strength thus achieving higher levels of performance. I imagine with Kane the docs said his ankle was technically ok. His HR and VO2max was where it needed to be, if he looked like he was coping with training then there is little reason to think he is not physically ready. This however doesn’t mean he is match fit and should start. For me he would have been saved. Difficult call really...
 
Airfixx said:
...But what about all the hi-tech medical/fitness gear we have....?

We hear about how closely the players are monitored these days. Surley there's more to it than:

"How's the ankle Harry?"

"Sweet, Boss... Start me."
Click to expand...

The hi-tech medical gear can detect, if there's an injury. E.g. the bone is broken, or there's a tear or something. But it can't detect, if Kane feels a bit of twinge which he covers up.
 
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