Giovani Lo Celso

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Not intentional and not avoidable , so why do you guys scream red ? if it was red it would had be given , the only thing that change the referee mind are public opinion , same public opinion that didn't make a fuss about Robertson poor tackle or capue or starling or others ... real bias stuff
 
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Watched the 5-seconds clips of that tackle about 20 times, he's obviously putting some weight on the scum's ankle, but where the fuck was he supposed to put his weight? That twat was sliding under him as he tried to block the ball off. If you're going to jump in like that, you've got to expect to get trodden on. GLC's foot was only on it for long enough to adjust his weight and slide off. Pathetic whiny bitches.

Of course it looks awful in slow-mo, but in real time it's definitely not a red. Fair play to GLC, though, I want to see more of that shrewd hobbling! Him and Lamela can really fuck some teams up. I want to see other teams pulling out when they see GLC or Coco going in. Fuck em, they picked the wrong team. Grow a pair you snivelling cheaty cunts.

:lamelaaghh:

Where's our GLC emojis?
 
Watched the 5-seconds clips of that tackle about 20 times, he's obviously putting some weight on the scum's ankle, but where the fuck was he supposed to put his weight? That twat was sliding under him as he tried to block the ball off. If you're going to jump in like that, you've got to expect to get trodden on. GLC's foot was only on it for long enough to adjust his weight and slide off. Pathetic whiny bitches.

Of course it looks awful in slow-mo, but in real time it's definitely not a red. Fair play to GLC, though, I want to see more of that shrewd hobbling! Him and Lamela can really fuck some teams up. I want to see other teams pulling out when they see GLC or Coco going in. Fuck em, they picked the wrong team. Grow a pair you snivelling cheaty cunts.

:lamelaaghh:

Where's our GLC emojis?

It's a tough one because I see what you mean and yes it's subjective so the clear and obvious issue exists, especially with Gio needing to put his foot down and the chav sliding in underneath it but I think it's a red, it's nasty enough be it intentional or not to give him one.

At first I thought it was the right call but with the benefit of TV replays I think Gio jolts his foot a little harder than someone looking to plant his foot. Was that due to protecting himself or was it malicious? Only he knows but I wouldn't have had any qualms with hindsight.
 
Was that due to protecting himself or was it malicious? Only he knows but I wouldn't have had any qualms with hindsight.
That's the 'shrewd hobbling' I was referring to. I think he didn't pull his weight off, but the scum wasn't coming in with any delicate consideration for GLC's welfare, so why the fuck should he? He's got plausible deniability as as I'm concerned, so it's not a red for me.

If something only looks like a red in slow-mo, it's not a red. Rarely seen any reason to argue with that logic. We're relying on super-human vision to judge human reflexes. It doesn't make sense to do it.
 
It was clear red, just like Sterlings tackle against Alli was.

But well, neither given - at least some consistency :) :D

Would have been disaster to lose Lo Celso for 3 games as well, like we wouldn't have enough problems.
In that sense it was really irresponsible from him to put team in risk of that. I don't care much what ppl here think but in future at least 8 out of 10 such cases red will be shown...
 
That's the 'shrewd hobbling' I was referring to. I think he didn't pull his weight off, but the scum wasn't coming in with any delicate consideration for GLC's welfare, so why the fuck should he? He's got plausible deniability as as I'm concerned, so it's not a red for me.

If something only looks like a red in slow-mo, it's not a red. Rarely seen any reason to argue with that logic. We're relying on super-human vision to judge human reflexes. It doesn't make sense to do it.

You would make a fine defence lawyer.

Red for me, be it slo-mo or normal speed.
 
I agree I thought it was a red however the only thing I could see that provides doubt, is that Asp is sliding underneath Lo Celso. That's to say that Gio is already bringing his foot down without the knowledge of knowing Asp's leg will end up coming underneath his foot.

This doesn't change my view that I think it's a red just offering a possible reason why VAR thought it wasn't.

I can actually see the mitigation for this one, even though I'd have no problem with it being a red, but what I don't understand is you saying you thought Sterling's on Alli was just a yellow. That was much more obvious IMO, he goes over the top, more horizontal into an upright leg, it was a shocker.
 
I can actually see the mitigation for this one, even though I'd have no problem with it being a red, but what I don't understand is you saying you thought Sterling's on Alli was just a yellow. That was much more obvious IMO, he goes over the top, more horizontal into an upright leg, it was a shocker.
Both in slow motion look 100% red cards.

I think both players are genuinely competing for the ball and not trying to endanger the opponent. Dele was just quicker to the ball than Sterling, impossible for Sterling to react to pulling out once he's already decided to commit to the challenge in the first place.

My biggest issue with the Sterling tackle, however, is that it should have been a red card given the president that went before it. There were at least two challenges (Aubameyang against Palace and I can't recall the others) where they were sent off for very similar tackles. Based on the similarity the precedent has been set and Sterling should have got a red card 100%.

But without those that went previously, I don't think they are red cards, the same as I didn't think Son's was. I get that things can become a bit blurred at times, so to complicate it further I thought Pogba should have been sent off for his challenge on Dele(?) when he too I believe was trying to make a genuine challenge for the ball and was late and brought down his studs on the thigh. So why do I think this was a red? To me there is a bigger distance between the players, he is significantly latter than the others mentioned, so he has time to pull out, his foot is high and whilst the high foot stuff is subjectively applied he missed the tackle and did endanger the opponent.

Fine line sand all that.

FWIW: The officials did confirm what I thought their interpretation of the original decision might have been:
ERjPj8mWoAA7KiC
 
Let me refresh your memory - with lot of replays



What an absurd question "where he should have put his body weight"... umm... on his left leg... that he was standing on anyways... insead of stomping down the right foot?

I honestly love football and our club. But for the life of my, I don't understand fans who try to talk black into white without any understanding of their biases. This is a red card tackle. Even ref's themselves admitted it.
 
Let me refresh your memory - with lot of replays



What an absurd question "where he should have put his body weight"... umm... on his left leg... that he was standing on anyways... insead of stomping down the right foot?

I honestly love football and our club. But for the life of my, I don't understand fans who try to talk black into white without any understanding of their biases. This is a red card tackle. Even ref's themselves admitted it.



I'm not into excusing things just because it's spurs. I would have had no problem with Lo Celso being given a red. But I can understand some mitigation on this one, Azpeleceuta dives in, underneath Lo Celso. Lo Celso isn't diving into a challenge horizontally, legs off the ground, studs up, straight legged into someone's planted upright leg.

Like I said, no problem if it's a red because being accidental makes no difference in the law. But legs go downwards, it wasn't reckless, or deliberate, it was only made to look reckless by Azpeleceuta lunging underneath Lo Celso.

The difference with the Sterling one is that Alli was just making a normal tackle, standing up, not lunging, wins the ball, and Sterling lunges, goes over the ball, lunges more horizontally into Alli's planted leg. Far more reckless, far more dangerous.
 
Both in slow motion look 100% red cards.

I think both players are genuinely competing for the ball and not trying to endanger the opponent. Dele was just quicker to the ball than Sterling, impossible for Sterling to react to pulling out once he's already decided to commit to the challenge in the first place.

My biggest issue with the Sterling tackle, however, is that it should have been a red card given the president that went before it. There were at least two challenges (Aubameyang against Palace and I can't recall the others) where they were sent off for very similar tackles. Based on the similarity the precedent has been set and Sterling should have got a red card 100%.

But without those that went previously, I don't think they are red cards, the same as I didn't think Son's was. I get that things can become a bit blurred at times, so to complicate it further I thought Pogba should have been sent off for his challenge on Dele(?) when he too I believe was trying to make a genuine challenge for the ball and was late and brought down his studs on the thigh. So why do I think this was a red? To me there is a bigger distance between the players, he is significantly latter than the others mentioned, so he has time to pull out, his foot is high and whilst the high foot stuff is subjectively applied he missed the tackle and did endanger the opponent.

Fine line sand all that.

FWIW: The officials did confirm what I thought their interpretation of the original decision might have been:
ERjPj8mWoAA7KiC

But it doesn't matter if they are competing for the ball. It's extremely rare that a player isn't competing for the ball. The rules don't require it to be deliberate to be a red.

Refs aren't meant to be refereeing based on what's happened in a previous match, they are meant to be referring according to the rules.

It doesn't matter if Sterling is genuinely competing for the ball, the law is there to prevent players from from being reckless in that genuine pursuit of the ball. So if you are lunging in and aren't sure of getting the ball, you run the risk of injuring the opponent quite badly, then the answer is, don't lunge in, studs first when you aren't sure of getting the ball and if you do, and get it wrong then expect the red.

Lo Celso's was far less dangerous, and far more influenced by what the other player did. Sterling's was just reckless and much more dangerous.

I would not have complained if Lo Celso was sent off, but Sterling's definitely should not have been in any doubt.
 
But it doesn't matter if they are competing for the ball. It's extremely rare that a player isn't competing for the ball. The rules don't require it to be deliberate to be a red.

Refs aren't meant to be refereeing based on what's happened in a previous match, they are meant to be referring according to the rules.

It doesn't matter if Sterling is genuinely competing for the ball, the law is there to prevent players from from being reckless in that genuine pursuit of the ball. So if you are lunging in and aren't sure of getting the ball, you run the risk of injuring the opponent quite badly, then the answer is, don't lunge in, studs first when you aren't sure of getting the ball and if you do, and get it wrong then expect the red.

Lo Celso's was far less dangerous, and far more influenced by what the other player did. Sterling's was just reckless and much more dangerous.

I would not have complained if Lo Celso was sent off, but Sterling's definitely should not have been in any doubt.
There absolutely HAS to be consistency in the interpretation and the application of the law. If there isn't then you get different decisions and no one knows what is or isn't the outcome. The very reason why there exists a debate about was it wasn't it, is because of how the law is applied and how the law is interpreted. Hence my original view on Sterlings tackle compared with Aubamtang's and the other one I couldn't recall. And hence why your interpretation is different to mine. Even the refs interoperate and apply the law differently, it's subjective so requires precedent to help to at least set a reference or provide a baseline. There will always be however different interpretation if laws applied by different people, so I believe VAR should be the same group of people for every game rather than the rotation we have now (for another debate).

It's also why the phrase "back in my day that was never a red" exist. The interpretation and application of the laws have changed since then say the '70's. If we rewatched a game from the 70's we watch with our mouths wide open as two-footed tackles go flying in without a foul even being thought about. The laws whilst tweaked here and there are not drastically altered from the '70s to this day but the application and interpretation have.

There is still to this day a big difference in the application and interpretation between countries, yet the written law is still exactly the same.

How do you know that he didn't think he wasn't going to win the ball? If he didn't think he was going to win the ball then there's a probability that it is himself that can come off with a broken leg. Both with Sterlings and Lo Celso's challenges are always going to be "studs first" if they miss the ball (for whatever reason), because they are using their feet to challenge for the ball, the game is called "football" for a reason. Had Sterling got there a fraction of a second before Dele, then it would have been Dele that would have put his studs onto Sterlings shin!
 
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