For all of you, Poch needs time

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FFS .....No you can't. That's just your opinion. Why do people constantly try to pass off their viewpoint as factual. We also do not know how things would turn out if someone else was appointed, it's just pure speculation so do not try to pretend otherwise.

In my opinion
He's had enough time and the squad is disintegrating in front of our eyes. We need someone to come in with a fresh look at what's happening and shake things up.
Familiarity breeds contempt

Playing devils advocate... Did familiarity breed contempt when SAF was managing Man utd?
 
They finished one place behind us, also got to a European final and took 4/6 points of us last season and outplayed this season (and are above us). If they are the "shambles" model, you can see why some don't entirely trust Poch who's had 5 years to reach a similar state.

That implies it's been one big downward spiral though..... It hasn't; not by a long shot.... Meanwhile one could strongly argue that the goons are on a steady decline, have been for over a decade and that Emre has done nothing to arrest that decline.
 
Ask 20 people with the right knowledge you will get twenty names.

Ask “Derek” online you might get none.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t anyone.

But we have some proper experts in our midst....

It's times like this that my faith in them truly shatters.


Bunch of fuckin' Derek's, the lot of ya!!!! :wansum:
 
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Playing devils advocate... Did familiarity breed contempt when SAF was managing Man utd?
No my friend, winning trophies regularly kept everybody happy and his knack of bringing in a fresh generation of players every 5/6 years meant there was no room for complacency amongst the squad. Plus he maintained the dressing room by never criticising players or performances in front of the media. It was all done privately behind closed doors. That's why they respected him, he protected them and never publicly humiliated them or inferred lack of effort.
Would Poch do this ???
 
None coming until January at the earliest....what the hell do we do until then ??

Strive to improve.... Isn't that the simple and only answer here?


....Or are you actually saying we must sack him sooner or later over the next couple of months?
 
Strive to improve.... Isn't that the simple and only answer here?


....Or are you actually saying we must sack him sooner or later over the next couple of months?
No... simply pointing out that we must make do with what we have until at least the New Year so I don't think not playing Dier and putting Moura on for the last 5 minutes of a match helps us fully utilise our current squad, especially during a time when injuries are so prevalent.
 
No my friend, winning trophies regularly kept everybody happy and his knack of bringing in a fresh generation of players every 5/6 years meant there was no room for complacency amongst the squad. Plus he maintained the dressing room by never criticising players or performances in front of the media. It was all done privately behind closed doors. That's why they respected him, he protected them and never publicly humiliated them or inferred lack of effort.
Would Poch do this ???


Also had one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) playing budgets in world football and was enjoying the stability of a dynasty of dominance.

You make it sound like Poch regularly hangs his players out to dry publicly... Over his tenure that simply isn't true. Has he criticised performances? Sure.... But lets's not pretend Fergie hasn't either.

You sparked this by suggesting familiarity has bred contempt.... If so, explain how.
 
No... simply pointing out that we must make do with what we have until at least the New Year so I don't think not playing Dier and putting Moura on for the last 5 minutes of a match helps us fully utilise our current squad, especially during a time when injuries are so prevalent.

...It's just that everything you say atm amounts to a catalogue of reasons why you want Poch gone.
 
Also had one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) playing budgets in world football and was enjoying the stability of a dynasty of dominance.

You make it sound like Poch regularly hangs his players out to dry publicly... Over his tenure that simply isn't true. Has he criticised performances? Sure.... But lets's not pretend Fergie hasn't either.

You sparked this by suggesting familiarity has bred contempt.... If so, explain how.

The big difference I feel is that Fergie always maintained that distance between manager and player and thereby had their respect for his authority. In my opinion Poch has tried too hard to be 'one of the lads' with his squad. It may well be an age thing as he is not that much older than the players.I just think if you allow that familiarity then you can expect a certain complacency amongst certain star players regarding their automatic team selection.
At times I have questioned Harry Kane either starting a particular game or not being subbed off when the match is clearly won. The same may be said for Eriksen and Alli. He appears to have his favourites and they get on the pitch sometimes regardless of fitness or suitability.
He is too close to the team and initially complacency creeps in and in the case of unhappy players who are no longer part of his plans that becomes contempt.
Just my humble opinion but that is why I used the phrase....
 
...It's just that everything you say atm amounts to a catalogue of reasons why you want Poch gone.
I just don't understand Poch's logic at times, especially at the moment regarding substitutions and the manner in which he is discussing club affairs with the media. I would respectfully suggest that my catalogue of reasons is highlighting perhaps why Poch wants to be gone....not my wish to see him leave. Does he have a hidden agenda ?
 
He needs time because rebuilding takes time. And the process has already been delayed. Last summer when we didn't get in anyone. We have players who said loud and clear that they want out. Our first team still relies on those players after 2 seasons, can you believe it? We can't and won't replace them in a single transfer window. We have just replaced Dembele with someone who still needs time to adjust to a much more demanding league. Add in the fact that three of our summer signings are out (two injured, another loaned back to a club that doesn't even use him anymore) and there's the result. We're still using the last season's players. The same players that got us in the UCL final yes, but the same players who had an atrocious run of results at the end of the season. I don't know how people expect different results when the players are the same.

Poch needs time. One season, two seasons, we have to stick with him. He needs our support, the fans' support. I don't think another manager can perform significantly better with the crop of players we have now, because the players are not in it with their heart, they are not playing for the badge anymore. You can't recommit a player to a club if his head has been turned.
So we are rebuilding then, got it!

I just got confused by us playing two 30 year old Centre half’s out of contract, a left back who we couldn’t sell, rotating two right backs who barely got a kick last season behind the worst right back in world football apparently, a midfielder we couldn’t give away now is our go to sub, and lamela seems to be the main linch pin in our attack ahead of last seasons go to hero Lucas, #go team rebuild!!
 
I just don't understand Poch's logic at times, especially at the moment regarding substitutions and the manner in which he is discussing club affairs with the media. I would respectfully suggest that my catalogue of reasons is highlighting perhaps why Poch wants to be gone....not my wish to see him leave. Does he have a hidden agenda ?

...But much the same, do you? That's all I'm asking really....

(Unless he's gone full Mourinho and is fucking with EVERYONE at all levels, then no, I don't think he has an agenda. IMO, he's in a funk - a hangover from the multitude of issues we faced last year and a half - which he failed to draw a line under during the summer break. Should he have? I'd suggest yes... Does he have enough 'credit in the bank' to afford him the chance to do so? IMO, yes.)
 
With this team Poch can buy himself some time and patience from everyone until the summer. It's 2014 again. Weed out the ones who no longer believe in the project and go with the youth. Does Poch have the bollocks to do it though
Lloris
KWP Sanchez Foyth Sessegnon
Skipp Winks
LoCelso Ndombele Son
Kane

 
...But much the same, do you? That's all I'm asking really....

(Unless he's gone full Mourinho and is fucking with EVERYONE at all levels, then no, I don't think he has an agenda. IMO, he's in a funk - a hangover from the multitude of issues we faced last year and a half - which he failed to draw a line under during the summer break. Should he have? I'd suggest yes... Does he have enough 'credit in the bank' to afford him the chance to do so? IMO, yes.)

It's like watching Jekyll and Hyde. I want the old Poch back to handle these problems... not the present one who seems jaded, negative and (dare I say it) distracted. It's as if he is subconsciously giving up. I just don't feel the squad are feeling any positivity or motivation from his comments or current management.
It's as though he is taking it all very personally with what is happening around him regarding player's contractual situations.
Either he is totally disillusioned and his dreams/project ideals no longer seem as valid or feasible or else he feels he can do no more under the purse string pressure Levy is allegedly putting on him. If it is the latter then he will walk. Above all he's a proud man and the decision to leave will be ultimately his.
 
He looks burnt out to me. Last season was so emotional - the delay to the stadium move, our constant last-minute saves in the Champions League. You could see the release of stress after the Ajax game. Unfortunately, i think the emotion got too much for him to handle and he has been making substandard decisions ever since.

I know he's had the summer, but i really think he needs a rest, and maybe he thinks that too.
 
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