Eric Dier

[Cravenspurs]

If he would stop with his desire to play in the midfield he could be a really good CB. But we almost robbed him of his development.

There are English kids that are already better than him at the DM/CM role IMO (Rice, Chabolah,...)

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Dier is a great squad player. Can play a few positions decently. Definitely not god enough to start for a team that wants to compete at the top. Doesn't do anything amazingly.

Apart from the fact that he is one of our most selected players in the squad that has finished 3rd, 2nd 3rd and is currently 3rd completely disproves your argument.

 

[anderton46]

Apart from the fact that he is one of our most selected players in the squad that has finished 3rd, 2nd 3rd and is currently 3rd completely disproves your argument.

Seeing as most our fans expect us to be winning trophies and winning the league (when we lost out to Leicester), it would suggest some players aren't quite good enough? Possibly Dier?

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Seeing as most our fans expect us to be winning trophies and winning the league (when we lost out to Leicester), it would suggest some players aren't quite good enough? Possibly Dier?

We've finish 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and are currently 3rd with Dier being one of the most selected players in the squad. You claimed he's "Definitely not good enough to start for a team that wants to compete at the top". That is exactly what we are doing with him in it, your statement is simply wrong.

If you don't rate the player that's fine, state why, state what better looks like etc...

I don't rate Trippier one bit, I think he's shit, I think we are a worse team (shape, style, more vulnerable) with him playing but I don't diminish his part that he's played in getting us 3rd. I just focus on why I think he's shit.

 

[anderton46]

We've finish 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and are currently 3rd with Dier being one of the most selected players in the squad. You claimed he's "Definitely not good enough to start for a team that wants to compete at the top". That is exactly what we are doing with him in it, your statement is simply wrong.

If you don't rate the player that's fine, state why, state what better looks like etc...

I don't rate Trippier one bit, I think he's shit, I think we are a worse team (shape, style, more vulnerable) with him playing but I don't diminish his part that he's played in getting us 3rd. I just focus on why I think he's shit.

Yeah and I didn't even say Dier is shit. I think he's decent. I just don't think he's a world class or bordering on world class player, which is the sort of player most elite teams have in their midfield. Whereas our front 4, all are arguably at that level. As are our centrebacks and keeper. But Dier in the middle, doesn't offer enough outside of being solid,.

If it wasn't for the fact Wanyama/Dembele have been so injury prone, I can't imagine Dier having anywhere near the same amount of starts. It is more of a case of 'who else'?

 

[bus-conductor]

We've finish 3rd, 2nd, 3rd and are currently 3rd with Dier being one of the most selected players in the squad. You claimed he's "Definitely not good enough to start for a team that wants to compete at the top". That is exactly what we are doing with him in it, your statement is simply wrong.

If you don't rate the player that's fine, state why, state what better looks like etc...

I don't rate Trippier one bit, I think he's shit, I think we are a worse team (shape, style, more vulnerable) with him playing but I don't diminish his part that he's played in getting us 3rd. I just focus on why I think he's shit.

He is slow (especially for a CM), immobile (for a CM), uncomfortable receiving the ball under pressure, can't move with the ball, no 360 game brain, has no vision at all, almost never makes an incisive pass (apart from the once as Eason when one of his twice a game attempted floaty long balls actually finds a man)- moves the ball too slowly and deliberately, yet still has a really low completion rate (for a top4 DM), he can't press very well because he's so cumbersome he gets turned too easily, and he's clumsy. Our best season by far was the one when he spent most of it playing in a back 3, while Wanyama actually did some running aaarand in midfield.

I'm not denying he's found his way onto the pitch in a lot of games in the last three years, just focusing on why I think he's shit, and IMO one of the biggest reasons why we didn't actually finish above Leicester and Woolwich two years ago, or above ManU last year.

 

[CroSpurs]

He is slow (especially for a CM), immobile (for a CM), uncomfortable receiving the ball under pressure, can't move with the ball, no 360 game brain, has no vision at all, almost never makes an incisive pass (apart from the once as Eason when one of his twice a game attempted floaty long balls actually finds a man)- moves the ball too slowly and deliberately, yet still has a really low completion rate (for a top4 DM), he can't press very well because he's so cumbersome he gets turned too easily, and he's clumsy. Our best season by far was the one when he spent most of it playing in a back 3, while Wanyama actually did some running aaarand in midfield.

I'm not denying he's found his way onto the pitch in a lot of games in the last three years, just focusing on why I think he's shit, and IMO one of the biggest reasons why we didn't actually finish above Leicester and Woolwich two years ago, or above ManU last year.

He's not great, but you write to much shite. The last part is laughable.

 

[Park Lane Mark Twain]

He is slow (especially for a CM), immobile (for a CM), uncomfortable receiving the ball under pressure, can't move with the ball, no 360 game brain, has no vision at all, almost never makes an incisive pass (apart from the once as Eason when one of his twice a game attempted floaty long balls actually finds a man)- moves the ball too slowly and deliberately, yet still has a really low completion rate (for a top4 DM), he can't press very well because he's so cumbersome he gets turned too easily, and he's clumsy. Our best season by far was the one when he spent most of it playing in a back 3, while Wanyama actually did some running aaarand in midfield.

I'm not denying he's found his way onto the pitch in a lot of games in the last three years, just focusing on why I think he's shit, and IMO one of the biggest reasons why we didn't actually finish above Leicester and Woolwich two years ago, or above ManU last year.

I don't mind Eric but he's got to be seen as a squad player or my personal preference would be as a CB.

Absolutely criminal that the rules mean he doesn't classify as homegrown in all competitions. Born in Cheltenham, has captained England but not deemed as HG just hinders our young quality getting chances at the highest level. Born here, have a British passport or been trained for X amount of years as a foreign player, I believe it is 3 before the age of 21 isn't it and you should make the grade.

He's played a huge part in our finishing 2nd & 3rd down the years, he can't be that bad

 

[bus-conductor]

I don't mind Eric but he's got to be seen as a squad player or my personal preference would be as a CB.

Absolutely criminal that the rules mean he doesn't classify as homegrown in all competitions. Born in Cheltenham, has captained England but not deemed as HG just hinders our young quality getting chances at the highest level. Born here, have a British passport or been trained for X amount of years as a foreign player, I believe it is 3 before the age of 21 isn't it and you should make the grade.

He's played a huge part in our finishing 2nd & 3rd down the years, he can't be that bad

Yeah, I like him as a CB, he reminds me a lot of a young TA, and if anything he's ahead of TA's development curve as a CB - TA couldn't get a game as a CB at AM, ended up at a mid table PL club on loan to buy deal, and even then we were the biggest team interested in gazumping Southampton for his signature.

Poch even said in his book he sees Dier as a CB.

 

[LeeMcl]

I’m honestly surprised that anyone is digging out Dier. While he might not be a midfield sensation, i’ve never seen him phone in a performance or fail to turn up. For me, we are still a better team with him than without him.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

He is slow (especially for a CM), immobile (for a CM), uncomfortable receiving the ball under pressure, can't move with the ball, no 360 game brain, has no vision at all, almost never makes an incisive pass (apart from the once as Eason when one of his twice a game attempted floaty long balls actually finds a man)- moves the ball too slowly and deliberately, yet still has a really low completion rate (for a top4 DM), he can't press very well because he's so cumbersome he gets turned too easily, and he's clumsy. Our best season by far was the one when he spent most of it playing in a back 3, while Wanyama actually did some running aaarand in midfield.

I'm not denying he's found his way onto the pitch in a lot of games in the last three years, just focusing on why I think he's shit, and IMO one of the biggest reasons why we didn't actually finish above Leicester and Woolwich two years ago, or above ManU last year.

Against:
He doesn't have a sprint in him, this is missed when tracking a runner (counter to this by way of an example was Dembele, very good pace at tracking a runner and showing them away from goal, holding up an oppo attack so the defence can gain shape.)

His biggest weakness is he can be pressed into a mistake. This is possible because he can't dribble past the presser (not many DM's can) and he can be pressed into a poor decission.

He has a habit of a lazy pass at least once every game. I'm not talking about a misplaced pass or even a pass that is caused via being put under pressure BUT a pass that's missed when he's NOT under any pressure, the impact of these is that because there is no pressure on him other players are taking up more positive positions e.g. FB's pushed up very high, the team are confident to be brave. So, when that pass goes straight to the oppo, the effect is they can counter on us with more than likely a numerical advantage.

He's not a two touch player, he a 3.

For:
He's a leader. He was widely tipped to be England's Captain before it was given to Harry. He has shown his metal numerous times for us and sets the tone in many a big game with a big tackle. He takes no shit of the oppo.

His positional awareness and reading of the game is fantastic, he knows where to be to affect the game, he blocks passing lanes. His decision making is also great, he knows when to stand the oppo up, drop back or challenge/engage them. His communication with those around him is also excellent e.g the interchange of him dropping off while covering whilst someone engages the oppo (or visa versa) is all from his direction. Disagree completely with you in that he CAN press, this is even more important this season as our press is much deeper this year (it's a mid-block).

He's good in the air (better than any of our CB's).

Whilst he doesn't possess pace, he has an engine on him, he's as strong in the last min as he was in the first.

He is an effective passer but when he's not being pressed/put under pressure. Please also bear in mind his role is to recycle the ball e.g when Dembele was next to him in a double pivot he would feed him a 5yrd ball, Dembele would then do what Dembele's does but this was his role (Winks does it better because he passes it quicker).

He's versatile. There used to be just him that Poch could deploy in 3 different positions (DM, CB in a 4 or 3 at the back and RB) but Poch has also been developing Kane, Dele and Erisken to also be highly effective in multiple positions. Nonetheless, it is Dier's versatility that Poch uses without the need to make a sub that helps him and the team find solutions, also because of his fitness he has been vital to cover injuries to Dembele/Wanyama + Vertonghen/Toby and latterly Walker. Do not underestimate this, we have missed this badly this year.

He absolutely gets what Poch is about, what Tottenham are about. I see him as one of our own as a result of this, he plays with that about him.

I loved him next to Dembele, thought that partnership was excellent. It never seemed to work on the occasions when he and Wanyama started together (no issue when Wanyama was sometimes brought on to pack out the midfield to see a game out). With Dembele gone we do have a problem to fix in midfield, it's a jigsaw puzzle that I think is down to specific skill sets missing rather than coaching (obviously Winks and Skipp have lots to learn) but we do need to quicken up the midfield and I don't see this in any of CM's/DM's, this player must be able to dribble and break an oppo press, someone comfortable with the ball at his feet and can be relied on not to lose possession easily. Our players are good at certain aspects but lack in other facets, need to find a more rounded player that has high energy and fizz. (I'll be honest I'm stuck who this should be, obvious answer is Dembele, but he was so unique I'd wager there isn't another out there, I see a Racatic a Modric two very obvious styles that we don't have (I think Winks and Skipp can develop towards this but that's 3, 4, 5yrs down the road) then I see an N'Dombele type player would also would be perfect. It's a conundrum but almost certainly needs a player to be identified and brought in.

 

[bus-conductor]

Against:
He doesn't have a sprint in him, this is missed when tracking a runner (counter to this by way of an example was Dembele, very good pace at tracking a runner and showing them away from goal, holding up an oppo attack so the defence can gain shape.)

His biggest weakness is he can be pressed into a mistake. This is possible because he can't dribble past the presser (not many DM's can) and he can be pressed into a poor decission.

He has a habit of a lazy pass at least once every game. I'm not talking about a misplaced pass or even a pass that is caused via being put under pressure BUT a pass that's missed when he's NOT under any pressure, the impact of these is that because there is no pressure on him other players are taking up more positive positions e.g. FB's pushed up very high, the team are confident to be brave. So, when that pass goes straight to the oppo, the effect is they can counter on us with more than likely a numerical advantage.

He's not a two touch player, he a 3.

For:
He's a leader. He was widely tipped to be England's Captain before it was given to Harry. He has shown his metal numerous times for us and sets the tone in many a big game with a big tackle. He takes no shit of the oppo.

His positional awareness and reading of the game is fantastic, he knows where to be to affect the game, he blocks passing lanes. His decision making is also great, he knows when to stand the oppo up, drop back or challenge/engage them. His communication with those around him is also excellent e.g the interchange of him dropping off while covering whilst someone engages the oppo (or visa versa) is all from his direction. Disagree completely with you in that he CAN press, this is even more important this season as our press is much deeper this year (it's a mid-block).

He's good in the air (better than any of our CB's).

Whilst he doesn't possess pace, he has an engine on him, he's as strong in the last min as he was in the first.

He is an effective passer but when he's not being pressed/put under pressure. Please also bear in mind his role is to recycle the ball e.g when Dembele was next to him in a double pivot he would feed him a 5yrd ball, Dembele would then do what Dembele's does but this was his role (Winks does it better because he passes it quicker).

He's versatile. There used to be just him that Poch could deploy in 3 different positions (DM, CB in a 4 or 3 at the back and RB) but Poch has also been developing Kane, Dele and Erisken to also be highly effective in multiple positions. Nonetheless, it is Dier's versatility that Poch uses without the need to make a sub that helps him and the team find solutions, also because of his fitness he has been vital to cover injuries to Dembele/Wanyama + Vertonghen/Toby and latterly Walker. Do not underestimate this, we have missed this badly this year.

He absolutely gets what Poch is about, what Tottenham are about. I see him as one of our own as a result of this, he plays with that about him.

I loved him next to Dembele, thought that partnership was excellent. It never seemed to work on the occasions when he and Wanyama started together (no issue when Wanyama was sometimes brought on to pack out the midfield to see a game out). With Dembele gone we do have a problem to fix in midfield, it's a jigsaw puzzle that I think is down to specific skill sets missing rather than coaching (obviously Winks and Skipp have lots to learn) but we do need to quicken up the midfield and I don't see this in any of CM's/DM's, this player must be able to dribble and break an oppo press, someone comfortable with the ball at his feet and can be relied on not to lose possession easily. Our players are good at certain aspects but lack in other facets, need to find a more rounded player that has high energy and fizz. (I'll be honest I'm stuck who this should be, obvious answer is Dembele, but he was so unique I'd wager there isn't another out there, I see a Racatic a Modric two very obvious styles that we don't have (I think Winks and Skipp can develop towards this but that's 3, 4, 5yrs down the road) then I see an N'Dombele type player would also would be perfect. It's a conundrum but almost certainly needs a player to be identified and brought in.

I don’t really see much evidence of leadership or fantastic positional awareness. People used to say the same about Huddlestone, I think it’s just a euphemism for a lack of dynamism. It’s not just the odd daft pass, his completion rate (84%) is really poor for a player who rarely ever takes any kind of risk, or takes the ball under pressure. Winks is 91% for example.

I hated Dier and Dembele together, it was very solid, just completely lacking any fucking alacrity, neither moved the ball quickly or with any incision, it was a terrible pairing in terms of transition. We were much better with Wanyama in there, not because he’s a vastly better footballer, he just did everything with more dynamism, presses better, moved the ball quicker and was proactive not reactive, which is why Dier got shunted back into defence, which is where he should stay.

 

[Courtney Jester]

Dier is a good player but this season let’s be honest, both him and tripps have been well below their best. No consistency and prone to making silly mistakes. Both of them can def step it up imo!

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I don’t really see much evidence of leadership or fantastic positional awareness. People used to say the same about Huddlestone, I think it’s just a euphemism for a lack of dynamism. It’s not just the odd daft pass, his completion rate (84%) is really poor for a player who rarely ever takes any kind of risk, or takes the ball under pressure. Winks is 91% for example.

I hated Dier and Dembele together, it was very solid, just completely lacking any fucking alacrity, neither moved the ball quickly or with any incision, it was a terrible pairing in terms of transition. We were much better with Wanyama in there, not because he’s a vastly better footballer, he just did everything with more dynamism, presses better, moved the ball quicker and was proactive not reactive, which is why Dier got shunted back into defence, which is where he should stay.

Being in the frame for England Captain is evidence of leadership, taking and scoring the biggest pressure penalty England have had in 20yrs is leadership. Willing to play anywhere on the pitch where his manger puts him. He's an organiser and communicator, not a shouter and screamer in the for us and England is evidence he's a leader. Articulate pre and post-match interviews show he's a leader, in fact, I don't know what someone has to do more than him to show that he's a leader. But don't take my word for it, these are the words of Sam Walker, author of "The Captain Class" a book studied and much-praised on capacity by managers/coaches from all different sports around the world:

They are relentless in their effort regardless of the match or situation; there is a “functional leadership” in making any sacrifice and playing in any position to best help the team; they can reach and be approached by every team-mate with their communication (and this is not done through tub-thumping speeches); there is an unpretentious humility that is averse to individual praise; they have emotional control in never letting their necessary passion do anything to harm the team and they have an independence in being willing to push back and challenge the coach or manager, even if their wider relationship is one of strong partnership.

“I think there’s a perfect captain in that team,” says Walker. “It’s Eric Dier. The more I look at his profile, the more I see it. He is totally selfless; will shift from midfield, centre-back and right-back at a moment’s notice. You can see his communication style is there when you see him on the pitch with Dele Alli or Harry Kane. He is not a screamer or speechmaker but I think he can approach everyone.

"It was also really interesting to see how he handled his confrontations with Diego Costa. He stands right up for the team and himself but he’s not looking for a row and there was emotional control. You could even sense some respect coming back his way from Costa and you don’t see that often. Dier has expressed interest in the job, but with maximum modesty and for the right reasons. You don’t want it for the prestige but because it is a job that is incredibly important.”

I've detailed his positional awareness, if you can't see this then we are back to your confirmation bias, it affects so much of critique, it's your problem I'm afraid.

It is an odd pass, one or two in a game that are ridiculous (I hate them), when he's not under any pressure, the other passes are when he is put under or the are midfield collateral damage (I find it amusing that 84% pass completion rating enrages you whilst you wank over Tripps who has a whopping 70% (76% this season)!!! For the record Dier's his pass completion rate is 86.8% for this season).

 

[bus-conductor]

I've detailed his positional awareness, if you can't see this then we are back to your confirmation bias, it affects so much of critique, it's your problem I'm afraid.

Yours or mine.

There's not much point in being positionally aware if you don't have the dynamism to perform other functions well. As a few of us noted in this thread, his awareness was found very lacking against Chelsea. As was his "leadership" setting very bad examples all over the pitch. The needless free kicks, standing arguing instead of switching on to danger, allowing Kante to run off him, leaving players unmarked whilst marking no one. Lack of initiative. If you aren't seeing those things I'd suggest your confirmation bias needs re-tooling a little.

It is an odd pass, one or two in a game that are ridiculous (I hate them), when he's not under any pressure, the other passes are when he is put under or the are midfield collateral damage (I find it amusing that 84% pass completion rating enrages you whilst you wank over Tripps who has a whopping 70% (76% this season)!!! For the record Dier's his pass completion rate is 86.8% for this season).

Brilliant confirmation bias. Why would you compare his pass completion with Trippier - a completely different position on the pitch, when I already provided you with a like for like comparison with Winks ? They are both operating in the same "collateral damage" environment, and clearly there's less "collateral damage" with Winks.

For the record I don't "wank" over Trippier, and I certainly don't wank over his pass completion (which is better than Rose's for example) I'm merely a little more balanced than you about him, and say though he's flawed, there's mitigation, as he's the most offensively productive RB in this league and maintaining that production whilst finding a top class defender won't be too easy. I've repeatedly stated that I'd rather see KWP given a chance. Caveat almost every discussion about Trippier with that statement.

But pass completion is always going to be different for a player who's job it is to cross the ball, or play high risk passes, than it is for a DM who's game is incredibly limited, even for a DM. Which is why Trippier has more assists than players like Alli, Moura and Lamela and averages more key passes than everyone bar Eriksen.

 

[ArtyB]

Shit tier fashion - Hector Bellerin.

God tier fashion...

What the fuck have I just seen...Berluti are doing clothes as well as shoes!!!!!

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Yours or mine.

There's not much point in being positionally aware if you don't have the dynamism to perform other functions well. As a few of us noted in this thread, his awareness was found very lacking against Chelsea. As was his "leadership" setting very bad examples all over the pitch. The needless free kicks, standing arguing instead of switching on to danger, allowing Kante to run off him, leaving players unmarked whilst marking no one. Lack of initiative. If you aren't seeing those things I'd suggest your confirmation bias needs re-tooling a little.



Brilliant confirmation bias. Why would you compare his pass completion with Trippier - a completely different position on the pitch, when I already provided you with a like for like comparison with Winks ? They are both operating in the same "collateral damage" environment, and clearly there's less "collateral damage" with Winks.

For the record I don't "wank" over Trippier, and I certainly don't wank over his pass completion (which is better than Rose's for example) I'm merely a little more balanced than you about him, and say though he's flawed, there's mitigation, as he's the most offensively productive RB in this league and maintaining that production whilst finding a top class defender won't be too easy. I've repeatedly stated that I'd rather see KWP given a chance. Caveat almost every discussion about Trippier with that statement.

But pass completion is always going to be different for a player who's job it is to cross the ball, or play high risk passes, than it is for a DM who's game is incredibly limited, even for a DM. Which is why Trippier has more assists than players like Alli, Moura and Lamela and averages more key passes than everyone bar Eriksen.

Let's not go down the Tripps road, not his thread, merely bringing up your hypocrisy not debating the merits of what he does or doesn't do and why. But you are obsessed with his numbers and have failed to see how shite he is and the problems his presence creates.

Taking the Chelsea game in isolation is simply odd, it also narrows it down to one half and ignores the other players that also failed to perform also ignores the 2nd half because where we were good. We have issues this season, these issues will manifest and get magnified against good sides. Our shape is nothing like what we have previously known before, this is IMO due to not having dominating FB's anymore (Rose has thankfully returned to his pre-injury form and my word the difference is night and day to how we play with him fit and firing, just need that replicated on the right). Our FB's are NOT the sole issue and we do have issues in central midfield, all our players aren't complete and we are struggling to get the right balance and mix, these all boil down into a non-functioning midfield (albeit one that has adapted so well without being totally convincing). We could have Pirlo at his best at the base of our diamond and there we will still have major issues until we get the balance of our FB and CM sorted.

We had one of the best midfield's in Europe, to which he contributed more mins that ANYONE, I've listed his limitations in my post, which conform to 70% of yours, but even with his limitations he was ever present in a midfield dominating Juve, Madrid, City, Woolwich etc.. When fit (his first year) I preferred Wanyama because he was far better on the ball (although I think his range of passing was worse). These are I think are fair reasoned and balanced viewpoints on him. One thing that he isn't, is the course or the route of the problems we have, his past performances are testament to that. His limitation though are systematic and contribute to the dissfunction.

 

[bus-conductor]

Let's not go down the Tripps road, not his thread, merely bringing up your hypocrisy not debating the merits of what he does or doesn't do and why. But you are obsessed with his numbers and have failed to see how shite he is and the problems his presence creates.

Taking the Chelsea game in isolation is simply odd, it also narrows it down to one half and ignores the other players that also failed to perform also ignores the 2nd half because where we were good. We have issues this season, these issues will manifest and get magnified against good sides. Our shape is nothing like what we have previously known before, this is IMO due to not having dominating FB's anymore (Rose has thankfully returned to his pre-injury form and my word the difference is night and day to how we play with him fit and firing, just need that replicated on the right). Our FB's are NOT the sole issue and we do have issues in central midfield, all our players aren't complete and we are struggling to get the right balance and mix, these all boil down into a non-functioning midfield (albeit one that has adapted so well without being totally convincing). We could have Pirlo at his best at the base of our diamond and there we will still have major issues until we get the balance of our FB and CM sorted.

We had one of the best midfield's in Europe, to which he contributed more mins that ANYONE, I've listed his limitations in my post, which conform to 70% of yours, but even with his limitations he was ever present in a midfield dominating Juve, Madrid, City, Woolwich etc.. When fit (his first year) I preferred Wanyama because he was far better on the ball (although I think his range of passing was worse). These are I think are fair reasoned and balanced viewpoints on him. One thing that he isn't, is the course or the route of the problems we have, his past performances are testament to that. His limitation though are systematic and contribute to the dissfunction.

You brought up Trippier, not me. But for the record, again, I'm not blind to his deficiencies, but unlike Dier his upside is actually quantifiable, not things that I just make up and say like they are true. And despite Trippier also being part of a team that finished 2nd and then 3rd and now 3rd again currently, I still say I'd rather see KWP out there developing his game many weeks.

I don't think any midfield with Dier in it was one of the best in Europe. I think it has been our weakest area throughout this last three years, I think we could have won the league with a better midfield, at least once, maybe twice.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

You brought up Trippier, not me. But for the record, again, I'm not blind to his deficiencies, but unlike Dier his upside is actually quantifiable, not things that I just make up and say like they are true. And despite Trippier also being part of a team that finished 2nd and then 3rd and now 3rd again currently, I still say I'd rather see KWP out there developing his game many weeks.

I don't think any midfield with Dier in it was one of the best in Europe. I think it has been our weakest area throughout this last three years, I think we could have won the league with a better midfield, at least once, maybe twice.

I wasn't discussing Trips, I was referencing you and claiming you were hypocritical. Tripps only became a significance after Walker was done, so sorry no his contribution hasn't been anything like that of Dier, it has coincided with us dropping off our once highly dominant performances. I've been saying this from day one and it's more evident today that it has ever been given the absolute calamity of a season he has had.

We had one of the best midfields in Europe fella, can't understand how you can't agree with that.

 

[bus-conductor]

I wasn't discussing Trips, I was referencing you and claiming you were hypocritical. Tripps only became a significance after Walker was done, so sorry no his contribution hasn't been anything like that of Dier, it has coincided with us dropping off our once highly dominant performances. I've been saying this from day one and it's more evident today that it has ever been given the absolute calamity of a season he has had.

We had one of the best midfields in Europe fella, can't understand how you can't agree with that.

Without getting into the whole Trippier/Walker debate, your argument about us not putting in highly dominant performances is self defeating, because Dier has been involved in most of those games too, so has at least a 50/50 chance of proving my argument than yours.

But if we really analyse it, we see that even with Walker, and Dier in CM, we finish 3rd in 15/16. With Walker and then Trippier (and by the way, our results were even better with Trippier that season - though a smaller sample obviously) but Wanyama in midfield we finish 2nd (16/17) and put in the the most consistent performances of Poch's reign.

Lose Wanyama and Dier comes back into midfield (now with Trippier) we go back to 3rd. Same as the season with Dier/Walker. The common denominator is Dier.

I have no bias toward Trippier. I'm saying exactly the same about Trippier as I am Dier in some respects, that I'd rather see an academy kid play than him. I'm not claiming he's something he isn't or are hard to qualify. You do this with both Trippier and Dier. All I've done with Trippier is debunk some of the bullshit claims by you and others. You blame Trippier for things that clearly aren't his fault. Like other teams exploiting the fact that we play with a high line and FB's pushed into attack.

I don't think Trippier is a great defender, (I also think he's had a particularly poor month and have been calling for KWP to start games) I've always accepted that he has flaws. But he does produce creatively. And I look around and see the paucity of genuine quality RB's - especially ones that can play our system and be defensively great too - and think how easy will it be to upgrade. Aurier's proven not to be the answer. Even Walker was dropped for 3 games recently because Guardiola got pissed off with his brainfarts. That's not bias, that's balance.

I'll happily see us upgrade Trippier, and have asked people who they would upgrade him with, but there's very few suggestions of PROVEN top quality out there that would be easy to obtain. Chelsea won the league with Moses as a RB. Leicester with fucking Simpson. ManC with Delph as a LB. There really aren't a plethora of quality FB's out there.

I repeat, I would prefer to see KWP given a run of games than see Trippier right now.

But I would also rather see Skipp or even Marsh out there than Dier, who's offers nothing I wouldn't happily sacrifice for some fucking dynamism and courage to get on the ball under pressure.