Eric Dier

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When a player comes back from injury he does not have the same level of fitness. It takes a few games. Vertongen had a mare on both occasions he came back from injury. Kane did last season. Dier may simply not had the energy to track back. He played 90 mins. I would judge him differently when he has a couple of games under his belt.
 
stevee said:
My point is that when Poch and his team look back at those incidents, is he going to bollock Dier ?
Of course he is.
Is he going to say to Winks and Eriksen, That's fine ?
No he isn't he should be bollocking all 3 of them.
Winks was also jogging back not running. As was Eriksen.

I'm not disputing the rest of your points, but this conversation started by highlighting Dier's jogging back.
As were 2 other players who were less than 10 yards of Dier and pretty much level with him.

My point is it is unfair to highlight Dier and give Winks and Ericksen a pass for doing the exact same thing.
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I just think both of those incidents Dier’s actions are more worrying because that’s fundamentally his remit.

I think he was heavily culpable on both those incidents and also on the first goal.

He spent the first half just clumsily clattering into people and was extremely lucky not to be on a booking after his first foul on Luiz. And eventually gave the foul away that lead to the killer goal, a stupid foul when their player was going backwards and no threat, which he compounds by just standing and bitching about, whilst they charge off and score.

I find it really disappointing that Poch has persevered with Dier in midfield.
 
bus-conductor said:
I just think both of those incidents Dier’s actions are more worrying because that’s fundamentally his remit.

I think he was heavily culpable on both those incidents and also on the first goal.

He spent the first half just clumsily clattering into people and was extremely lucky not to be on a booking after his first foul on Luiz. And eventually gave the foul away that lead to the killer goal, a stupid foul when their player was going backwards and no threat, which he compounds by just standing and bitching about, whilst they charge off and score.

I find it really disappointing that Poch has persevered with Dier in midfield.
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So what you're saying is that Winks and Eriksen are not equally culpable, for doing the exact same thing as Dier, jogging back.
All 3 players being midfielders, whilst I agree that Dier is the holding midfielder, the role of a midfielder is to get up and down the pitch, helping with both defence and attack.

If Dier was even only 10 yards deeper than Winks and Ericksen in these incidents, I would agree with you.
The fact is he wasn't.

Dier was poor in these incidents.

So was Winks and Ericksen.

You are a student of the game and analyse a lot of matches and stats, how you can not see this is beyond me.
 
stevee said:
So what you're saying is that Winks and Eriksen are not equally culpable, for doing the exact same thing as Dier, jogging back.
All 3 players being midfielders, whilst I agree that Dier is the holding midfielder, the role of a midfielder is to get up and down the pitch, helping with both defence and attack.

If Dier was even only 10 yards deeper than Winks and Ericksen in these incidents, I would agree with you.
The fact is he wasn't.

Dier was poor in these incidents.

So was Winks and Ericksen.

You are a student of the game and analyse a lot of matches and stats, how you can not see this is beyond me.
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I’m not absolving other players, I just don’t think their actions were as poor. Dier was right next to Kante, he has to read that and react accordingly.

The second goal starts with his (yet another) stupid foul, and rather than stay focused and stop them taking a quick free kick he just stands there bitching while they take it and catch us out.

Like I keep saying, what adds to his culpability, as opposed to others is not just his direct actions, but the fact that he’s there primarily for his defensive attributes, because his offensive ones are non existent, if he’s making such poor defensive errors, then there is no justification for him being there.

He was terrible that first half.
 
bus-conductor said:
I’m not absolving other players, I just don’t think their actions were as poor. Dier was right next to Kante, he has to read that and react accordingly.

The second goal starts with his (yet another) stupid foul, and rather than stay focused and stop them taking a quick free kick he just stands there bitching while they take it and catch us out.

Like I keep saying, what adds to his culpability, as opposed to others is not just his direct actions, but the fact that he’s there primarily for his defensive attributes, because his offensive ones are non existent, if he’s making such poor defensive errors, then there is no justification for him being there.

He was terrible that first half.
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That's true.
Dier was also 15 yards further forward than Ericksen (I think ?) and Eriksen made no attempt to get back at all.
When the ball eventually ends up in the box and the ball is squared to Kante, Eriksen isn't even in the picture.
He just stopped.

If a midfielder goes forward, it is the responsibility of the other midfielders to cover there position, especially if a holding midfielder goes forward.

It basically boils down to 2 simple questions;

Did Dier do enough ? No.

Did Winks and Eriksen do enough ? No

Dier was awful in the first half.
 
stevee said:
Dier was awful in the first half.
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I believe that Dier, more than any other regular starter, has thwarted the evolution of this team.

stevee said:
My point is it is unfair to highlight Dier and give Winks and Ericksen a pass for doing the exact same thing.
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Not trying to be glib, stevee stevee , as I think you are a gent, but at least the other 2 are capable of playing a bit of football.
 
Five said:
I believe that Dier, more than any other regular starter, has thwarted the evolution of this team.


Not trying to be glib, stevee stevee , as I think you are a gent, but at least the other 2 are capable of playing a bit of football.
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I agree with that and we all know Dier's limitations, but to dig him out, and him only, when 2 other players were also guilty of the same lack of urgency, is imv unfair.
 
bus-conductor said:
He spent the first half just clumsily clattering into people and was extremely lucky not to be on a booking after his first foul on Luiz.
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He wasn't being clumsy. He was being hard. Letting the Chelsea lads know they were in a real game. Getting inside their heads. Bullying them. Class how he walked into Azpilicueta on his way to take his penalty. That showed him.
 
With a weaker central midfield the last 2 years ( with the decline of Dembele ) Dier has been definitely been exposed as bang average . Rival fans don't rate him and never want him in an England line up and regard him as a bit of a cart horse.
Really his position is in a back 3 if he stays but no doubt he will be plodding around in central midfield till the cows come home , as there is no investment or will to up grade him .
 
Gave away the free kick yesterday and then started protesting to the ref instead of getting back into position.

He did the same a few years ago against Newcastle when they scored about 5 seconds into the second half. He was still high-fiving his teammates after the interval instead of paying attention to what was going on around him.

Just like yesterday - obviously not learnt his lesson. A spell on the bench would be in order ordinarily however we have no-one else - so he plays.
 
Fidel Castro said:
With a weaker central midfield the last 2 years ( with the decline of Dembele ) Dier has been definitely been exposed as bang average . Rival fans don't rate him and never want him in an England line up and regard him as a bit of a cart horse.
Really his position is in a back 3 if he stays but no doubt he will be plodding around in central midfield till the cows come home , as there is no investment or will to up grade him .
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But rival fans barely rate Vertonghen either so what do they ultimately know?

I think the problem is, we have no one else with his experience that can come in and play right now in central midfield. We've seen that Pochettino is more than happy to get rid of Dier from central midfield when there are better options available (Dembele/Wanyama), but when the alternative is Skipp - you can bet Dier is going to get picked everytime.

He's a fine squad player Dier - can play centre half in a back three, at a stretch in a back two, deputised pretty well at right back in Pochs first season, can play the holding role in the diamond, in a 433 or as a two in a 4231 - but when EVERYONE is fit and we a firing team, he probably knows he shouldn't be starting.
 
Blanchflower said:
Both he and Trippier seem to have a bit of misplaced arrogance in their play since the world cup.
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Sorry I can't agree with this at all. The only difference I see in either of them is Trippier's wanting to play more of a part in set pieces, one in which he scored at a crucial time early on in the season against Fulham.

Saying they seem a little arrogant in their play when we have our highest points total to date baffles me
 
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